Actually that sounds like a ship heavy 5 ship hammer and anvil type list. Idk if we have still to fear for mass squadrons all the time now (which im sure you already realize that ciena and valen wouldn't hold off)

With the average activation count being 4-5, and 4-5 activations being almost the standard, where do we draw the line between just a 5 activation list and an MSU? and I remember having a conversation when talking about the term MSU that centered around the Clonisher being one because all of the units have some kind of threat potential. Whereas a handful of strong threats and a handful of flotillas that are largely comms-net activation advantage is not really a true MSU. So it cannot just be activation count that makes a list an MSU. So the TRC90 Cracken swarm is a good MSU, but my 180 point Liberty, 90 point Admonition, and 3 flotillas isn't. @Caldias and @Ardaedhel and @Matt Antilles all run solid Mothma MC30 MSUs, in my opinion, because even if the activation count is high, there are multiple ships that are intended to do damage and there's almost a principle (the most prevalent in @Ardaedhel's list) of it not really mattering which of the small units does the damage.

So what is a VICII, 2 Glads, a Raider and a Gozanti. There are certainly MSU principles there, but my guess is that the VICII acts as an anchor to the list around which the other units have to form and act, which means it is not necessarily going to fly like a true MSU.

I suppose it is all theoretical naming, after all. In the end, if its a good list and is competitive, naming it correctly is not going to help me beat it.

MSU has to be intentionally having more ships than the opponent is expected to have. Since 5 is upper end of standard, id say 6+ is MSU. Also, tends to be .. all small. No mediums or larges.

ISD + 5 ships is not MSU. And VSD... well, really its a hammer anvil list.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

MSU has to be intentionally having more ships than the opponent is expected to have. Since 5 is upper end of standard, id say 6+ is MSU. Also, tends to be .. all small. No mediums or larges.

ISD + 5 ships is not MSU. And VSD... well, really its a hammer anvil list.

Is that MSU though? Multiple Small Units. You have multiple small ships. That seems to be the only qualifier for me.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Is that MSU though? Multiple Small Units. You have multiple small ships. That seems to be the only qualifier for me.

I agree in principle... Because I can't find a heftier definition without crushing myself with Logic

Where it found its niche calling - Large force army games - it was:

"Multiple Small Minimum Sized Units in lieu of larger choices"

When the choice was 1 100 man block, or 10 10 men blocks, you went for the 10. Even if it cost you a small premium in "setup points", because they were ultimately more flexible.

A "Pure" MSU list is a list that is, essentially, taking the smallest possible units of a type in lieu of any other larger choices.

The moment you include a Medium sized ship or larger, its not MSU. Its something else.

The trick is, if you take that concept further, then you're looking at "Minimal" in a way that means that a list of All Raiders would be MSU - but a Clonisher list isn't an MSU because the Gladiator itself is an outlier to the Raiders.

Which is clearly bunk

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Is that MSU though? Multiple Small Units. You have multiple small ships. That seems to be the only qualifier for me.

I'm going to agree with Blail on this one, as competitive meta, at least locally is 5 activations. I play 4 or 3, because I am cheeky (and no, it doesn't lose me the game), but it does make the game a bit trickier, certainly. MSU is going to be above and beyond the 'standard'. Helps if you never give up first/last. Keep one, always.

1 hour ago, Darthain said:

I'm going to agree with Blail on this one, as competitive meta, at least locally is 5 activations. I play 4 or 3, because I am cheeky (and no, it doesn't lose me the game), but it does make the game a bit trickier, certainly. MSU is going to be above and beyond the 'standard'. Helps if you never give up first/last. Keep one, always.

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

Where it found its niche calling - Large force army games - it was:

"Multiple Small Minimum Sized Units in lieu of larger choices"

When the choice was 1 100 man block, or 10 10 men blocks, you went for the 10. Even if it cost you a small premium in "setup points", because they were ultimately more flexible.

A "Pure" MSU list is a list that is, essentially, taking the smallest possible units of a type in lieu of any other larger choices.

The moment you include a Medium sized ship or larger, its not MSU. Its something else.

So since I think we all feel that 4-5 is the standard number of activations (and the Regionals data from wave 5 agrees), does MSU then become anything with 6+ ships? I'm OK with this definition, but what happens when the sliding scale of everything moves us to a 6 standard ship activations? (Looking at YOU, Hammerheads....)

5 hours ago, geek19 said:

So since I think we all feel that 4-5 is the standard number of activations (and the Regionals data from wave 5 agrees), does MSU then become anything with 6+ ships? I'm OK with this definition, but what happens when the sliding scale of everything moves us to a 6 standard ship activations? (Looking at YOU, Hammerheads....)

Then the definition of MSU moves along with it? Isn't that a great system? Adaptable and future proof.