So, @Brigadierblu and I tested out the new Nal Hutta Swamps map last night. What the what. Basically every activation began with, what the heck do I do now? This map puzzles my feeble intellect more than any other I’ve encountered. So, I thought I would share my lack of insight with masses and hopefully hear from other people’s experiences on this map as we try to make sense of this gargantuan battleground.

I was testing out a Scum list with Iggy, Vinto, Onar, eJawa, Gideon, Hera, C3PO, and Chopper (here I must tip my cap to @nickv2002 for thrashing me with this very list; it looked fun so I thought I’d try it out). I forced @Brigadierblu to try out a Ranger list, for obvious reasons, and he ended up with eRangers (with Survivalist), Echo Base Troopers, Gideon, C3PO, Chopper, Hera, and Jynn (thanks to @dietz057 for the inspiration for giving her a try).

I took the semi-T-shaped deployment zone, which I’ll call the top of the map. And from the beginning I was at a loss. Sight lines were everywhere. I found two places to hide my units, so that’s where I began to stick them. I swung Hera over to the left corridor and stuck her in the small alcove there. Later I moved Onar up to the center area and hid him in the bottom right corner of the four-space nook so he could hide behind a wall. But beyond that, everything was wide open for sniping.

Not quite realizing this, I pushed my focused Vinto over so that he was two spaced from my terminal, pushing him another space with Chopper so that he was five spaces away from the right-side crate (we were playing the mission where you got 4 VP for each crate you controlled). I thought it was pretty clever, since I would activate last and then be able to get an attack on wherever his Rangers ended up. Nope, I was an idiot. He moved up with his Rangers and shot from 9 or 10 away and killed Vinto with two shots, with some range to spare.

Right, so I should have seen this coming. But I just am not used to this level of exposure.

Similarly, I just played PintofStout on Vassal and won with my Rangers barely moving out of their deployment zone. His focused and hidden eQuays just couldn’t compete with my range. He can move up his units and get a shot, but then they’re left out to die, most likely.

So, what are some of my takeaways?

1. Rangers are good. Duh. To counter that I would hold back more than I would normally and then push up once I had the right cards to take out a Ranger. Similarly, Iggy is good because you can position him to hide behind another figure or some blocking terrain and then use one movement point to get LOS, take your two shots, and then move back into hiding. But forget Jedi Luke, forget everyone else. Take out those Rangers.

2. Hera is awesome. Her boost of +2 range or a surge is extremely beneficial on this map.

3. Cheap units that can be used as body shields are helpful too. The Alliance Smuggler, with his -2 to range and white die is helpful here. Of course officers with their rerolls are great too.

4. High figure counts are beneficial on this map. The Shielded mission can force you to split up, and those crates on Raining Freight can add up if you start to collect them with your throwaway figures.

5. The red deployment zone is way better. Lots more places to hide (like, say, your deployment zone). I've only played with the blue zone so far, so that shapes my thoughts on exposure some.

6. If you’re not playing Rangers and are playing against them, hope for the Shielded Mission. That forces units to converge somewhat on choke points. The ones on the side can hide somewhat unless your opponent pushes his figures forward a lot, which is what you want anyways.

7. Jump Jets was already an awesome card. It just got awesomer. (In my game against PintofStout, I moved Luke from just outside of my deployment zone to hop across the ravine and move down to kill chopper at the bottom terminal; it was epic). Thanks to @Brigadierblu for that observation. (And for the same reason Ahsoka will be great on this map).

8. It sucks to be a dewback. That is all.

9. To the cheers of probably everyone, Jedi Luke is also hampered some by this map (I play him because he is Star Wars for me, but I still feel like a jerk doing so). Sadly, this hurts most other Melee units as well, though Shyla and Ahsoka could be pretty powerful still.

10. But most importantly, I don’t know what I’m doing yet with this map :-). Everything is so wide open, it’s a completely different play experience than the other maps. While I don’t like how dominant the Rangers seem on this map, I do like how different this map plays. I especially look forward to playing a mirror match to see how Rangers stack up against each other. No one can hide :-). But also, I think this could force some more diversity into your list building. A nexu could be quite good on this map with his high mobility and pounce (and I'd love to see him sit at a crate next to Onar and 3PO some turn and gain an auto double evade, double block for an attack). Cards like Jump Jets couldn't fit into my point-heavy list before. Well, they might now. A focused Jyn, who can move 10 and get into position to attack a unit before it activates, might find a place into lists more often. So, my hope is that instead of seeing the meta slide toward Rangers Rangers Ranger Rangers, we might see more unique solutions to this puzzle.

So, what are your thoughts? Do you enjoy the map? What can you share that can stop my head from spinning ;-)?

-ryanjamal

@ryanjamal,

This is an awesome write up! Thanks for sharing.

I'm hopefully going to get to play this tomorrow, so I'll share some thoughts then.

I have a list ready to go for Nexu with Onar and 3PO, but haven't had time to try it out. Cunning still seems like it could be something that creates inefficiencies in your favor. Nexu could be handy for blocking LOS in hallways on the other maps also.

Survivalist seems super good on this map. But then you remember the other two maps in rotation suck for that card.

1 minute ago, RogueLieutenant said:

Survivalist seems super good on this map. But then you remember the other two maps in rotation suck for that card.

Exactly what I was thinking. And also the reason I don't think we will see rangers rangers rangers. I've not played Rangers on Jabba's Palace yet, but seems like they lose some of their luster on that map.

I've yet to play the Nal Hutta map yet, but I'll also be hopefully playing it tomorrow. Glad I read this in advance haha.

10 minutes ago, Fightwookies said:

I'm hopefully going to get to play this tomorrow, so I'll share some thoughts then.

I have a list ready to go for Nexu with Onar and 3PO, but haven't had time to try it out. Cunning still seems like it could be something that creates inefficiencies in your favor. Nexu could be handy for blocking LOS in hallways on the other maps also.

I think it would be hilarious to advance your units behind your nexu. Play Strength in Numbers to move them both into place at once ?

-ryanjamal

5 minutes ago, wannabepudge said:

Exactly what I was thinking. And also the reason I don't think we will see rangers rangers rangers. I've not played Rangers on Jabba's Palace yet, but seems like they lose some of their luster on that map.

I've yet to play the Nal Hutta map yet, but I'll also be hopefully playing it tomorrow. Glad I read this in advance haha.

Yeah, that does make your match ups super swingy if you bring Rangers. I've gotten okay with Rangers on Jabba's map, but they are certainly limited there.

-ryanjamal

2 minutes ago, ryanjamal said:

I think it would be hilarious to advance your units behind your nexu. Play Strength in Numbers to move them both into place at once ?

-ryanjamal

hahaha.

if you throw in Beast Tamer, the nexu can attack someone 7, potentially 8 movement points away (depending on the effectiveness of Pounce) and still retreat to his original blocking position. I think he could be pretty fun.

28 minutes ago, Fightwookies said:

I'm hopefully going to get to play this tomorrow, so I'll share some thoughts then.

I have a list ready to go for Nexu with Onar and 3PO, but haven't had time to try it out. Cunning still seems like it could be something that creates inefficiencies in your favor. Nexu could be handy for blocking LOS in hallways on the other maps also.

Unfortunately distracting doesn't work like that it's only the adjacent squares so if your opponent could target a different one not next to 3PO then you won't get the surge. Onar works great though.

Just now, TheUnsullied said:

Unfortunately distracting doesn't work like that it's only the adjacent squares so if your opponent could target a different one not next to 3PO then you won't get the surge. Onar works great though.

You are correct, and I think that might be why I shelved that list. I disagree in principle with that rule.

22 minutes ago, Fightwookies said:

hahaha.

if you throw in Beast Tamer, the nexu can attack someone 7, potentially 8 movement points away (depending on the effectiveness of Pounce) and still retreat to his original blocking position. I think he could be pretty fun.

Banthas just running straight over those cliffs as well?

6 minutes ago, Fightwookies said:

You are correct, and I think that might be why I shelved that list. I disagree in principle with that rule.

I tend to agree with you that it should apply to adjacent figures, not spaces, but, to be fair, a Han Solo wouldn't be very distracting hidden behind a massive Bantha/Rancor wall, now would he?

It's a lot of fun to get @ryanjamal out of his comfort zone.. on a new map with a list he is unfamiliar with. Every time he ends his movement with a figure he's like,"I don't know maaaan, I don't know.. like, what am I supposed to do?"

2 minutes ago, Brigadierblu said:

It's a lot of fun to get @ryanjamal out of his comfort zone.. on a new map with a list he is unfamiliar with. Every time he ends his movement with a figure he's like,"I don't know maaaan, I don't know.. like, what am I supposed to do?"

This is why I love the map rotation :-).

-ryanjamal

My initial thought is that this Map almost makes the Bantha useless. Even using 15 movement points that comes with Beast Tamer and both actions as movement, and the 2 that Gideon can give. You still come up short of the other deployment zone. Yes, you don't necessarily have to make it that far, but given the sit and focus mentality, its nice to hit the bunch early some times. You no longer can. Mainly, if you put the bantha in a setup position and there are rangers on the map, Bantha is going to have a hard time staying alive for very long. I've favored a bantha list lately and I was not excited about its success on the map.

That said, here's to trying!

14 minutes ago, wannabepudge said:

My initial thought is that this Map almost makes the Bantha useless. Even using 15 movement points that comes with Beast Tamer and both actions as movement, and the 2 that Gideon can give. You still come up short of the other deployment zone. Yes, you don't necessarily have to make it that far, but given the sit and focus mentality, its nice to hit the bunch early some times. You no longer can. Mainly, if you put the bantha in a setup position and there are rangers on the map, Bantha is going to have a hard time staying alive for very long. I've favored a bantha list lately and I was not excited about its success on the map.

That said, here's to trying!

I hope you're still bringing the Bantha tomorrow. oh, and don't forget your eWeequay card for me to borrow.

14 minutes ago, wannabepudge said:

My initial thought is that this Map almost makes the Bantha useless. Even using 15 movement points that comes with Beast Tamer and both actions as movement, and the 2 that Gideon can give. You still come up short of the other deployment zone. Yes, you don't necessarily have to make it that far, but given the sit and focus mentality, its nice to hit the bunch early some times. You no longer can. Mainly, if you put the bantha in a setup position and there are rangers on the map, Bantha is going to have a hard time staying alive for very long. I've favored a bantha list lately and I was not excited about its success on the map.

That said, here's to trying!

Well, that Bantha soaks up a lot of damage. So maybe the strategy is to offer it up on the altar of distractive measures and storm up in its wake. I was thinking about this and it might be worth the try.

-ryanjamal

Just now, ryanjamal said:

Well, that Bantha soaks up a lot of damage. So maybe the strategy is to offer it up on the altar of distractive measures and storm up in its wake. I was thinking about this and it might be worth the try.

-ryanjamal

That certainly seems like a solid approach.

I have a personal hatred of eRangers when playing the bantha. @seef1033 taking 1 activation of focused eRangers (at least 2 of them) wiping out my full health bantha in round 1 from across the map on Anchorhead Bar, will forever be in the back of my mind :-)

The old WOTC miniatures game had a lot of maps like this. You had two options:

"If you can't beat them, join them" - get your own snipers, and camp in the back OR

Sacrifice a piece/s to soak up the damage, while your heavy-hitters advance behind them. You will lose that piece, but then your heavy hitters will be healthy and in position.

I think the same will apply here -- other than, it is easier to get LOS in this game to the trailing figures. Therefore, in my opinion, good options to by the expendable piece is the bantha or nexu, since they will block line of sight to small figures, and bantha has a lot of HP.

I wonder how a double-bantha would work. The problem with double-bantha is that Iggy is almost certainly out of your build.

1 hour ago, wannabepudge said:

My initial thought is that this Map almost makes the Bantha useless. Even using 15 movement points that comes with Beast Tamer and both actions as movement, and the 2 that Gideon can give. You still come up short of the other deployment zone. Yes, you don't necessarily have to make it that far, but given the sit and focus mentality, its nice to hit the bunch early some times. You no longer can. Mainly, if you put the bantha in a setup position and there are rangers on the map, Bantha is going to have a hard time staying alive for very long. I've favored a bantha list lately and I was not excited about its success on the map.

That said, here's to trying!

No worries. In 9-12 months this map will be out and we'll have new maps for him to stomp around and. We can refresh the meta with units people haven't seen in a while.

The shields don't interact with Cunning? The shields are -1 surge, not +1 evade.

39 minutes ago, DTDanix said:

The shields don't interact with Cunning? The shields are -1 surge, not +1 evade.

I think they were referencing Onar and 3POs added surges.

Small rules note for large figures: your opponent can choose a space they occupy to target with an attack. Most of the time this is just the nearest space so we don't talk about it but, if shooting a Nexu, you can choose to shoot a space that is not adjacent to C-3PO (assuming you have LoS to that space) in order to avoid granting the Nexu an extra Evade from Distracting. Similarly, a Royal Guard can't hide behind an AT-ST and give all 6 spaces the defense bonus.

3 hours ago, nickv2002 said:

Small rules note for large figures: your opponent can choose a space they occupy to target with an attack. Most of the time this is just the nearest space so we don't talk about it but, if shooting a Nexu, you can choose to shoot a space that is not adjacent to C-3PO (assuming you have LoS to that space) in order to avoid granting the Nexu an extra Evade from Distracting. Similarly, a Royal Guard can't hide behind an AT-ST and give all 6 spaces the defense bonus.

Which is the rule, but I don't have to like it. Those adjacent figures are really there just for moral support anyway.

So assuming you get stuck with the blue side and aren't running a bunch of Rangers or eQuays and need to advance what squares seem the safest to you guys? I was having a hard time finding anywhere except for a couple of single spots.