As a hardcore Phoenix loyalist and my dearest decks being Inquisition, I found this storyline to be too hard to relate to. I'd rather have the Phoenix not being the nazis of Rokugan this time.

On 7/24/2017 at 8:12 AM, Asako Hohe said:

As a hardcore Phoenix loyalist and my dearest decks being Inquisition, I found this storyline to be too hard to relate to. I'd rather have the Phoenix not being the nazis of Rokugan this time.

I want to know why the people who talk to kami think the unicorn are hurting the kamis feelings.

I want to see rumor. I want to see conjecture, I want to see people jumping to conclusions! People are spontaneously combusting and I want results!

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 0:13 PM, Kinzen said:

Wow.

Yeah, I . . . well, let me put it this way. If I'd been on the AEG Story Team and they'd handed me that plot, I would have quit rather than write it.

Funny you should say that.

After the first L5R CCG arc - The Clan War - finished up. the original writer of the game was busy writing new material for the second major arc (The Hidden Emperor). At that time, AEG / FRPG (Five Rings Publishing Group) made a deal for Wizards of the Coast to publish L5R, and Wizards would gradually gain more control over the game and own the IP outright.

Some execs at Wizards called Wick in for a meeting. They told him that he had to have the Scorpion Clan be blamed for the missing Emperor, and be totally banished from Rokugan. He objected, stating that the Scorpion had just done a 'disbanded and then returned' story, and also banishing them would require major story changes. The Wizards execs insisted, so Wick basically quit on the spot, handing his notes and some completed stories to his chosen lead Storyteller successor, Ree Soesbee.

Wick has always been known as a "temperamental artist" type, and has his detractors. Personally, I get why he left. The story became a mess with Wizards execs interfering, and once they took over design, the game design was terrible (or at least terribly balanced) as well. The Spirit Wars...ugh.

32 minutes ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

People are spontaneously combusting and I want results!

Are they bursting into spontaneous singing before going up like a Roman Yodotai candle?
If so, I've got a theory...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gISEekxuEgk

11 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

Are they bursting into spontaneous singing before going up like a Roman Yodotai candle?
If so, I've got a theory...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gISEekxuEgk

What's funny is, I read that and even before I clicked on the link my first thought was, why does this sound like a Buffy episode and why did I just read this in Xander's voice?

9 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

What's funny is, I read that and even before I clicked on the link my first thought was, why does this sound like a Buffy episode and why did I just read this in Xander's voice?

"Buffy, this is all about fear. It's understandable, but you can't let it control you. 'Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to anger.' No wait, hold on. 'Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to the dark side.' Hold on, no, umm, 'First you get the women, then you get the money, then you...' Okay, can we forget that?"

On 7/24/2017 at 9:12 AM, Asako Hohe said:

As a hardcore Phoenix loyalist and my dearest decks being Inquisition, I found this storyline to be too hard to relate to. I'd rather have the Phoenix not being the nazis of Rokugan this time.

I feel the trope being aimed for here is less about Nazism and more about religious intolerance. The concept of religious institutions labeling things it doesn't like/understand as taboo is a big thing in fantasy (such as the "forbidden machina" in FF10, a Jedi's suppression of emotions, etc.), and if I'm being honest it creeps up in the real world from time to time as well.

4 hours ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

I want to know why the people who talk to kami think the unicorn are hurting the kamis feelings.

I want to see rumor. I want to see conjecture, I want to see people jumping to conclusions! People are spontaneously combusting and I want results!

So, this uses some assumptions based on background in the Legend of the Burning Sands stuff.

It's all about the way magic and spirits are handled. In Rokugan, priests propitiate the spirits, do them favours, call on their ancient relationships and give them offerings. Everything that happens is a deal between two parties. In the burning sands, spirits are imprisoned in items to make them magical, or compelled by the words of creation. Everything says that the Sahir is in charge and the spirits of the world are his servants at best, if not slaves.

How do you think the staff at your local store would react if some people came up and started demanding work out of them for no pay, no recognition and in a way they couldn't refuse?

1 hour ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Everything that happens is a deal between two parties. In the burning sands, spirits are imprisoned in items to make them magical, or compelled by the words of creation.

This is a thing in Rokugan too, with the Asahima fetishists and the Agahsa alchemists. You can probably count certain nemuranai too into this.

Back in the good old days, non-Rokugani elemental magic was special because it had nothing to do with the kami at all, it controlled the elements directly and without a spiritual mediator. Iuchi adopted this during the journeys of the Ki-Rin because it turned out that kami are quite rare outside of Rokugan.

33 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

This is a thing in Rokugan too, with the Asahima fetishists and the Agahsa alchemists. You can probably count certain nemuranai too into this.

Back in the good old days, non-Rokugani elemental magic was special because it had nothing to do with the kami at all, it controlled the elements directly and without a spiritual mediator. Iuchi adopted this during the journeys of the Ki-Rin because it turned out that kami are quite rare outside of Rokugan.

I always thought of the Asahina tricks to be the same as fetishes from Werewolf: the forsaken - the spirit that is used to empower the item is persuaded to attach itself to the physical object because it gets something it wants out of it.

On the other hand, the flavour on Harik's Ruby from LBS: There are only 999 jinn. Before Harik made his ruby, there was one more. really implies something a bit more coercive.

1 minute ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

On the other hand, the flavour on Harik's Ruby from LBS: There are only 999 jinn. Before Harik made his ruby, there was one more. really implies something a bit more coercive.

Binding supernatural creatures against their will has a great tradition in Rokugan too, be it the occasional trigger-happy Kuni or the "U-R-Our-Slave-Nao" Lion.

2 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

Binding supernatural creatures against their will has a great tradition in Rokugan too, be it the occasional trigger-happy Kuni or the "U-R-Our-Slave-Nao" Lion.

Yes, but never the kami.

4 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Yes, but never the kami.

A djinn is more like an oni rather than a kami.

6 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

A djinn is more like an oni rather than a kami.

But Meishodo is a Burning Sands-esque practice which acts upon kami, not djinn, so that particular hair need not be split.

Hence the concern.

12 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

But Meishodo is a Burning Sands-esque practice which acts upon kami, not djinn, so that particular hair need not be split.

Hence the concern.

I mean, just as Rokugani magic has the power to bind oni and other "major" supernatural creatures and still be cool with the kami, non-Rokugani magic should have the same capability. I mean, f*ck the djinn, they were total *ssholes .

Again, as far as I can rememeber, the difference between Rokugani and non-Rokugani magic was that the former used an intermediate (the kami) while the latter didn't.

Yeah, but all Rokugani magic that isn't maho is respectful of the kami- which is where I think the suspicion of Meishodo comes from. The Phoenix may be right, and Meishodo is agitating the kami on such a scale that no one is going to be able to reliably call upon them- or they may be wrong, and something else is causing the imbalance. But the underpinnings of why they have the suspicions they do exist in the setting, and form a coherent framework.

Again, this is a much better way to use all those "Unicorn crushing piles of Shiba while taking no losses at all" art pieces FFG now owns.

I dunno, as I said earlier, I liked the not!Moto not!Curse plot in Old5R and personally, I would prefer it even now. This whole messing with Meishodo feels a lot like the Isawa is just jelly for the shiny Unicorn magic that is not theirs, and they are now throwing a tantrum to do something about it. With the curse, it was more about legitimate concern, even though the presentation should have been better.

26 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

I dunno, as I said earlier, I liked the not!Moto not!Curse plot in Old5R and personally, I would prefer it even now. This whole messing with Meishodo feels a lot like the Isawa is just jelly for the shiny Unicorn magic that is not theirs, and they are now throwing a tantrum to do something about it. With the curse, it was more about legitimate concern, even though the presentation should have been better.

Did you read the Phoenix story? There is absolutely a legitimate concern. The favoured apprentice of the Master of Fire took the fall to cover it up, but the Masters do not know why the kami, whom the Rokugani have dealt with for centuries, are now going out of control. What has changed recently? Iuchi doing a new kind of magic in the Empire. It may not be the reason, but it's not illegitimate to ask the question, and the OP was looking for possibilities behind the story. I agree, that it might not be the reason, but it can't be dismissed.

51 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

What has changed recently?

Well, I can distantly remember a heretical cult in the Dragon Lands, for starters.

Jumping straight to Meishido just doesn't ring well for the Phoenix, so to speak. Especially since the return of the Unicorn (if they keep the timeline) is far from a "recent" event.

Chatter is the Unicorn's return isn't the three hundred year old historical factoid it was in the old continuity.

35 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Chatter is the Unicorn's return isn't the three hundred year old historical factoid it was in the old continuity.

What, did they get Lost?

2 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Chatter is the Unicorn's return isn't the three hundred year old historical factoid it was in the old continuity.

It says on the product page they were gone for 800 years. So the old math still adds up

1 hour ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

It says on the product page they were gone for 800 years. So the old math still adds up

The product page also references at least 2 dead champions... so it might be due for some updates.

1 minute ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

The product page also references at least 2 dead champions... so it might be due for some updates.

?? that was intentional ??

(but you knew that)

3 hours ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

It says on the product page they were gone for 800 years. So the old math still adds up

Except that, in the old timeline, the were only away for just over 700 years, leaving in Y90. I admit that's still 200 years, so I'm now a bit dubious.