So this isn't really a big deal but was wondering what other communities think. This has happened twice in 2 weeks.

On casual nights an opponent has brought out the titles for the Scum "Guns for hire". Both times I said "ok, if you want to play with different rules" and the response was "its just a casual night" and I reply "whatever, lets battle".

In our community proxing released upgrade cards has never been frown on, no one cares, which is great IMO. I think this goes too far though. We are now playing with 2 rules set, a current and future one. Who knows what the FAQ will be then or what list I would have built knowing the new titles are out there. Now, if someone said to me"this week let try out the "Guns for Hire" pack, I would be all over that because it is now playing with same playing field and would be fun.

I know it doesn't matter who wins on a casual night but I feel we should be able to expect to have a fair battle. Maybe it irks me because the opponents just assume it is ok and they are not thinking that I want to win/lose without asterisks

Like I said, It isn't a big deal and I don't want to be "that guy", so I'm not going to mentioned it in our community (maybe will, we'll see how frequently it happen) .

Anyone run into this or your thoughts? Should I not even worry about it and "fly casual"?

Its unreleased and you were not expecting it even in a casual environment. If you do not like it i do not see why you would have to fly against it.

I personally have no issue if someone proxies unreleased stuff (i dont). The person should be asking you ahead of time and having a backup list ready in case someone does not want to fly against it.

1 minute ago, Moohnzie said:

In our community proxing released upgrade cards has never been frown on, no one cares, which is great IMO. I think this goes too far though. We are now playing with 2 rules set, a current and future one. Who knows what the FAQ will be then or what list I would have built knowing the new titles are out there. Now, if someone said to me"this week let try out the "Guns for Hire" pack, I would be all over that because it is now playing with same playing field and would be fun.

Well, you are assuming there will be a FAQ that changes things; technically those cards will be legal as-is. So, you should be facing something today that you would simply be facing in a few months. OTOH, if you feel that you shouldn't play with those cards yet and are not playing them for that reason, then yes, there are 2 different playing fields.

For a long time, I was the other guy: I ran x7's for months before the veterans expansion dropped. My brother didn't have a problem with it. If my brother proxied StarViper Mk IIs at this point, I really wouldn't have a leg to stand on, complaint wise.

BUT, there should be a clear statement made about the "validity" of playing with unreleased material.

How are casual nights scheduled? Is there a running FB group? I'd be clear there that you're looking for practice based on the current Store Championship meta -- practicing against unreleased cards is a disservice to you, at that point.

Otherwise, just assume folks are always trying to the new shiny and prepare for that. At worst, you'll get a jump on the upcoming meta, which isn't such a bad thing.

just say no if you don't want to fly v it

personally, can't see why anyone would care unless you're looking for tournament practice. Unreleased but spoiled upgrades will be part of the game regardless, and it's nice to get a look at how things will turn out

in the case of g4h, the upgrade cards currently spoiled are literally just point tweeks apart from Viktor (and the mk2 echo-roll), which only makes things easier to adapt to imo

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

just say no if you don't want to fly v it

personally, can't see why anyone would care unless you're looking for tournament practice. Unreleased but spoiled upgrades will be part of the game regardless, and it's nice to get a look at how things will turn out

in the case of g4h, the upgrade cards currently spoiled are literally just point tweeks apart from Viktor, which only makes things easier to adapt to imo

Tournament practice is valid. So is not wanting to use to the new shiny while you're still using/planned on using only the legal stuff.

Even playing casually, I'd still want to win.

If it's something way down the road, like Guns for Hire, I'd prefer if people didn't proxy it. Its time will come. But if there was a scenario where there's a big tournament right after it gets released, and you both want a bit of early practice with/against it, and as long as it was communicated ahead of time, then I'd be all for that.

Otherwise, enjoy the stuff that's currently in our hands. That's the whole point of a game that gets released in waves like this. Each wave has it's own evolving meta that makes it unique. I like to play within that meta while it's around.

I have no problem with proxy cards for casual game :

You can test it without waiting to have the card and can avoid disappointment. After testing you will se if you want to buy or not (but since I'm a collector i'm out for this one... )

As a point of etiquette, I always ask for permission before proxying an unreleased content. If my opponent would prefere to play current stuff then it's not a problem; I can either switch some upgrades around or I might fly something that is tried and true.

Of course I take for granted that if I proxy stuff and ask then my opponent then he also has the right to proxy some of his own. It would be weird being like "I want to proxy the new title on Talonbane, but please keep using the old one, I like it better that way."

I guess what I am saying is as long as it is done respectfully then I don't mind.

50 minutes ago, Moohnzie said:

Anyone run into this or your thoughts? Should I not even worry about it and "fly casual"?

If you don't want to fly against proxy lists, politely say so. The very few times I've run a proxy list, I usually take a slightly tweaked version of the list without proxying just in case of a situation like that.

I personally would not care, and I often proxy myself. I do always state, "I am proxying <blank>, if you don't mind" as we are breaking out stuff. I would be willing to switch if someone requested, but I've never had to, so far. I would also not be offended if someone requested to play against a current legal list as practice for an upcoming tournament.

But, I usually run non-meta jank anyways, so you aren't likely going to get good practice against me anyways

If I were the one proxy-ing the cards, I would do two things: let it be known ahead of time that I'm bringing those cards as well as bring another list or two JUST in case someone has an issue with it or had a change of heart. Granted, it's just casual, but popping that surprise on someone could damper the atmosphere of the game being played. Why risk it?

1 hour ago, Moohnzie said:

So this isn't really a big deal but was wondering what other communities think. This has happened twice in 2 weeks.

On casual nights an opponent has brought out the titles for the Scum "Guns for hire". Both times I said "ok, if you want to play with different rules" and the response was "its just a casual night" and I reply "whatever, lets battle".

In our community proxing released upgrade cards has never been frown on, no one cares, which is great IMO. I think this goes too far though. We are now playing with 2 rules set, a current and future one. Who knows what the FAQ will be then or what list I would have built knowing the new titles are out there. Now, if someone said to me"this week let try out the "Guns for Hire" pack, I would be all over that because it is now playing with same playing field and would be fun.

I know it doesn't matter who wins on a casual night but I feel we should be able to expect to have a fair battle. Maybe it irks me because the opponents just assume it is ok and they are not thinking that I want to win/lose without asterisks

Like I said, It isn't a big deal and I don't want to be "that guy", so I'm not going to mentioned it in our community (maybe will, we'll see how frequently it happen) .

Anyone run into this or your thoughts? Should I not even worry about it and "fly casual"?

For casual night, whatever. For any sort of paid tournament, no.

In my area one of the stores broke street date and sold some wave 10 early. I insisted that it wasn't allowed and the tournament regulations backed me up on it. So even actual product isn't legal before official release.

But again, for any sort of casual game I see no issue.

Proxying unreleased stuff is like anything with X-wing, you have to have bot parties agree on it, it takes two to play a game. Thing is competitive standard often provides a format that both parties tend to universally accept because it is from a neutral third party that is the authority on the game. So you general have a universal consent to play by competitive standard rules. However as always in casual games not connected to league or any other "official" matches trying out unreleased upgrades or even ships (assuming you have the dial) just to see how it will work and explore the options is fine as long as your opponent agrees to it. Not every match of X-wing you play has to be competitive standard.

Guns for Hire is pretty far out for me to consider proxy cards, but I did proxy pretty much the entire Scurgg expansion to test it out a week before a store championships this past weekend. I was going to get the expansion anyway, but wanted more time with it than the 1-2 days I'd have gotten otherwise.

On a casual night, I could truly care less what someone proxies so long as I get a few games in. I win no matter what, as I have fun and get experience. Not really sure why anyone would care if it's casual. Even if a future-card gets FAQ'd, it's not like there's a running tally (that exists outside of my mind and my iPhone) that matters, so who cares if I should have won but didn't?

But to a tournament? I'll punch you in the throat, right now.

If it bugs you, (which if you're posting about it then it must) you're within your rights to say, "Nah, I'll pass. Do you have another list you can fly?"

It's casual night, I get it, but being casual doesn't mean you have to let the other guy bend you over. Maybe bring your own "casual" list: Fenn, Quickdraw and Biggs? It's casual night right? It doesn't really matter right?

Except it does. You came to play with certain expectations and someone brings something to play that isn't out, that hasn't been given an official blessing by the community, you know? It feels like the other guy could have been cool instead of making you feel like you would be the jerk for not being "casual" and letting him get his way. Do right by you and say "no" next time. Obviously, you don't have to be rude but you came to enjoy yourself and now... you feel bad about it because you didn't stand your ground. He would have played someone else and you would have too and not been bothered by what actually happened. It's ok to say no.

He should ask ahead of time and if you have a problem with it he should give you an opportunity to say no.

However, I don't see why it bothers you? I would be curious to how the new stuff works and if your build can go up against it. It will then inform your opinion whether to buy the expansion or not when it comes out. I can see an argument about wanting to practice for Store Champs and wanting to go against current lists, but you're never guaranteed to play against that list anyways. Practice can be more for getting to know your list and developing strategies and openings.

There is Zero reason for someone to say no, if You explain to the people your playing against you want to try out cards that have not come out in a casual setting.

Just print out some copies of the pictures and talk with your people's let them know your trying things out and go for it.

The fly causal is more about the players saying let's have fun with our plastic ships and shout PEW PEW PEw.

its really strange to me that people would frawn on it unless they are practicing for a Torny or worlds or their up right people that have to stick to the rules no matter what. (Which is why I gave up warhammer, that and someone saying they were going to kill me for playing at a different store)

Edit after 2 years of not getting to play I honestly don't care what other people bring and want to try out. I am just happy to play and focus on flying better, smiling through mistakes and being a good opponent.

@Cubanboy I like you and the things you post, so keep that in mind when reading my reply. Which I hope doesn't sound like anyone is being disrespected--sometimes tone and inflection don't translate when written down.

I think there was a difference in expectations from both parties:

On 7/19/2017 at 0:03 PM, Moohnzie said:

I know it doesn't matter who wins on a casual night but I feel we should be able to expect to have a fair battle .

The OP didn't feel it was fair so that was outside of his expectations, so if the OP decided it is not fair for him then that's reason enough to say no.

The challenger appeared to have the expectation that casual night means all comers would be like-minded and willing to try out the unreleased upgrades. And when the initial rebuff was presented (not a very strong rebuff by the way) the challenger reminded the OP that it's not a serious game. Which it really isn't, I mean we're moving plastic toy space-ships for goodness sake. The OP then resigned himself to play despite his misgivings. TWICE.

On 7/19/2017 at 0:03 PM, Moohnzie said:

Both times I said "ok, if you want to play with different rules" and the response was "its just a casual night" and I reply "whatever, lets battle".

Both parties should have presented their expectations clearly, how they wanted to have fun that night but only one seemed to.

Opponent: "I want to try out some of the new Guns for Hire stuff"
OP: "I want to play with regular stuff, not unreleased stuff."

And then they could have gone their separate ways or come to an agreement or compromise and be done with it.

All I wanted to get across was that a person should feel empowered to express their expectations. Playing X-wing was better than not playing X-wing but the OP didn't feel good about it, so this is where we find ourselves.

Personally, I would have been happy to try the new stuff like you.

Its casual night. Bring your proxies! Try new stuff out! That is waht casual night is for! Have fun. Just dont be bringing your Paratanni's and Miranda/Dash and triple Kwing bombers unless specifically asked for a game cause that **** stinks when I am bringing Luke and Garven to the table.

42 minutes ago, wurms said:

Its casual night. Bring your proxies! Try new stuff out! That is waht casual night is for! Have fun. Just dont be bringing your Paratanni's and Miranda/Dash and triple Kwing bombers unless specifically asked for a game cause that **** stinks when I am bringing Luke and Garven to the table.

So, you're telling one player to bring whatever they want (including unreleased content), but when another player plays a specific squad, you're upset? Maybe k wing bombers are the list they have most fun with.

1 hour ago, Crit Happens said:

So, you're telling one player to bring whatever they want (including unreleased content), but when another player plays a specific squad, you're upset? Maybe k wing bombers are the list they have most fun with.

Yes, because I know the experience that those other lists bring. Not fun to play against, so with my time, I dont want to play those lists I have faced numerous times in tournaments and have no fun playing them on casual night. New stuff is always fun to play against to see how they work. Bring it!

5 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

@Cubanboy I like you and the things you post, so keep that in mind when reading my reply. Which I hope doesn't sound like anyone is being disrespected--sometimes tone and inflection don't translate when written down.

I think there was a difference in expectations from both parties:

The OP didn't feel it was fair so that was outside of his expectations, so if the OP decided it is not fair for him then that's reason enough to say no.

The challenger appeared to have the expectation that casual night means all comers would be like-minded and willing to try out the unreleased upgrades. And when the initial rebuff was presented (not a very strong rebuff by the way) the challenger reminded the OP that it's not a serious game. Which it really isn't, I mean we're moving plastic toy space-ships for goodness sake. The OP then resigned himself to play despite his misgivings. TWICE.

Both parties should have presented their expectations clearly, how they wanted to have fun that night but only one seemed to.

Opponent: "I want to try out some of the new Guns for Hire stuff"
OP: "I want to play with regular stuff, not unreleased stuff."

And then they could have gone their separate ways or come to an agreement or compromise and be done with it.

All I wanted to get across was that a person should feel empowered to express their expectations. Playing X-wing was better than not playing X-wing but the OP didn't feel good about it, so this is where we find ourselves.

Personally, I would have been happy to try the new stuff like you.

:-)

so we've allowed proxy cards for anything that is available from the FFG website
even for the local league games
but never for tournament games
it's never been a problem as long as both players are in agreement

FBJ