Just now, JJ48 said:

Hotaru is trying to kill off all the Champions to weaken the Clans and pave the way for the Crane Clan Coup!

L5R Forum Drinking Game - Hotaru kills more champions than she actually has - 2 sips.

Just now, Tonbo Karasu said:

Well, they're both characters that were alive at this date in the prior storyline...

Also true. I guess overall what I'm implying, without having actually concluded anything in my original post, is that the deaths of Satsume and Ujimitsu might be related, as in perpetrated by the same or a similar group.

3 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Hotaru is trying to kill off all the Champions to weaken the Clans and pave the way for the Crane Clan Coup!

Yes, that is the meme.

Just now, Zetsubou said:

Also true. I guess overall what I'm implying, without having actually concluded anything in my original post, is that the deaths of Satsume and Ujimitsu might be related, as in perpetrated by the same or a similar group.

It isn't an unreasonable suggestion. So the question becomes, what is gained by the death of the Emerald Champion and the Phoenix Champion?

2 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

L5R Forum Drinking Game - Hotaru kills more champions than she actually has - 2 sips.

Well, until FFG features her in more fiction so that we have more real reasons to dislike her, we'll just have to make do making reasons up!

Just now, Tonbo Karasu said:

It isn't an unreasonable suggestion. So the question becomes, what is gained by the death of the Emerald Champion and the Phoenix Champion?

Hard to say, the extremely limited information we've been given in both cases leaves us mostly grasping at straws for an answer. Pure speculation on my part is the goal is destabilization of those clans by eliminating a stronger, more experienced champion and (especially in the case of the Phoenix) rolling the dice in the hope that a weaker leader fills the void. At the very least, the turmoil sets both clans back a ways. Perhaps this all ties into Yokuni's prophecy in some way?

2 minutes ago, Zetsubou said:

Hard to say, the extremely limited information we've been given in both cases leaves us mostly grasping at straws for an answer. Pure speculation on my part is the goal is destabilization of those clans by eliminating a stronger, more experienced champion and (especially in the case of the Phoenix) rolling the dice in the hope that a weaker leader fills the void. At the very least, the turmoil sets both clans back a ways. Perhaps this all ties into Yokuni's prophecy in some way?

Except Satsume was killed long after Hotaru had already become to the Clan Champion. And it's very unlikely the Emerald Champion would be filled by someone who is considered weak.

2 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Except Satsume was killed long after Hotaru had already become to the Clan Champion. And it's very unlikely the Emerald Champion would be filled by someone who is considered weak.

Ah, correct. Perhaps then the goal is less trying to fill the role with a less desirable candidate and instead making a move while the role is empty or while the new champion is still transitioning?

4 minutes ago, Zetsubou said:

Hard to say, the extremely limited information we've been given in both cases leaves us mostly grasping at straws for an answer. Pure speculation on my part is the goal is destabilization of those clans by eliminating a stronger, more experienced champion and (especially in the case of the Phoenix) rolling the dice in the hope that a weaker leader fills the void. At the very least, the turmoil sets both clans back a ways. Perhaps this all ties into Yokuni's prophecy in some way?

It would have to be someone who doesn't know about Ofushikai, because that more-or-less guarantees a decent Champion.

I think it's a real stretch for so many to be interpreting an overhearing of, "the Phoenix Champion had passed before his time," and jumping to "shenanigans must be afoot!"

I mean, that's just a thing people say, lol.

Just now, Tonbo Karasu said:

It would have to be someone who doesn't know about Ofushikai, because that more-or-less guarantees a decent Champion.

It gives a bit more weight to the phrase "filling the void", too.

Just now, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

I think it's a real stretch for so many to be interpreting an overhearing of, "the Phoenix Champion had passed before his time," and jumping to "shenanigans must be afoot!"

"Once is bad luck, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action."

We're currently in the coincidence zone.

Just now, Zetsubou said:

Ah, correct. Perhaps then the goal is less trying to fill the role with a less desirable candidate and instead making a move while the role is empty or while the new champion is still transitioning?

Perhaps. but I think it's too early to judge Ujimatsu's death as conspiracy, outside of "He was too young", which in itself is a platitude for just about anyone who passes, we have no sense of anyone treating it as a mysterious death, unlike the passing of Satsume.

1 minute ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

I think it's a real stretch for so many to be interpreting an overhearing of, "the Phoenix Champion had passed before his time," and jumping to "shenanigans must be afoot!"

I mean, that's just a thing people say, lol.

Sure, it is reaching, but I think it merits discussion as a possibility. I wouldn't say abrupt death is unheard of, merely that in a literary sense that is rarely the case...

3 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Perhaps. but I think it's too early to judge Ujimatsu's death as conspiracy, outside of "He was too young", which in itself is a platitude for just about anyone who passes, we have no sense of anyone treating it as a mysterious death, unlike the passing of Satsume.

As I've said before, it is a coincidence. Does that necessarily mean anything? Nah. Nevertheless, writing tends towards meanings in the margins of language, so to speak, and things do not often play out as they would in real life, with very few events having any connective tissue. I'm merely pointing out said coincidence, running with it a bit, and keeping an open mind to the possibilities while definitely realizing that it could well and truly be just a coincidence.

1 minute ago, Zetsubou said:

As I've said before, it is a coincidence. Does that necessarily mean anything? Nah. Nevertheless, writing tends towards meanings in the margins of language, so to speak, and things do not often play out as they would in real life, with very few events having any connective tissue. I'm merely pointing out said coincidence, running with it a bit, and keeping an open mind to the possibilities while definitely realizing that it could well and truly be just a coincidence.

For me, it's a stretch too far. I didn't feel any mysteriousness in the fiction towards Ujimatsu's death, and it is perhaps just a tongue in cheek reference to the fact that in the old timeline Ujimatsu dies much later.

Three clan champion deaths within a couple weeks time should seem highly suspicious to anyone taking notice.

Just now, phillos said:

Three clan champion deaths within a couple weeks time should seem highly suspicious to anyone taking notice.

Without knowing the time between each of these passings, nor the time between the passing of Ujimatsu and the Phoenix fiction, it's still only 2 clan champions who have died.

Just now, RandomJC said:

For me, it's a stretch too far. I didn't feel any mysteriousness in the fiction towards Ujimatsu's death, and it is perhaps just a tongue in cheek reference to the fact that in the old timeline Ujimatsu dies much later.

Difference of opinion, then. In my mind, if all was truly well and normal, we'd at least have a spoken cause of death. Seems a little odd to me that Tsukune, who appears to have known him decently well, doesn't seem to know what happened. Maybe she was swept up in the ceremony and her duties and didn't think of it, sure, but a nugget like that often gets slipped into narrative regardless for expositional purposes. Am I reading way into things? Most definitely; I have a degree in English Literature, after all.

5 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Without knowing the time between each of these passings, nor the time between the passing of Ujimatsu and the Phoenix fiction, it's still only 2 clan champions who have died.

I thought each story says something to the effect of 2 weeks later at the beginning. I took that to mean these stories were reasonably collocated in time.

1 minute ago, Zetsubou said:

Difference of opinion, then. In my mind, if all was truly well and normal, we'd at least have a spoken cause of death. Seems a little odd to me that Tsukune, who appears to have known him decently well, doesn't seem to know what happened. Maybe she was swept up in the ceremony and her duties and didn't think of it, sure, but a nugget like that often gets slipped into narrative regardless for expositional purposes. Am I reading way into things? Most definitely; I have a degree in English Literature, after all.

This does not seem to be occurring directly after his passing though. (And he even had time to prepare a final poem)

9 minutes ago, phillos said:

Three clan champion deaths within a couple weeks time should seem highly suspicious to anyone taking notice.

Satsume wasn't Crane Clan Champion at the time of his death, but Emerald Champion. Arasou was killed in battle. That leaves only Ujimitsu's death as a potentially suspicious Clan Champion's death.

1 minute ago, RandomJC said:

This does not seem to be occurring directly after his passing though. (And he even had time to prepare a final poem)

Good point, though I would find it hard to believe it has been a truly long time, a week or so seems appropriate for funeral needs and the necessity to fill his position. I'd posit there are ways of dying slowly that aren't necessarily natural, but I grant there's no evidence.

1 minute ago, phillos said:

I thought each story says something to the effect of 2 weeks later or something. I took that to mean these stories were reasonably collocated in time.

Lion fiction says some weeks later, while Dragon/Crab say meanwhile, and Phoenix opens with one week later. At the bare minimum, the phoenix fiction takes place roughly a month since Satsume's death.

Just now, Zetsubou said:

Good point, though I would find it hard to believe it has been a truly long time, a week or so seems appropriate for funeral needs and the necessity to fill his position. I'd posit there are ways of dying slowly that aren't necessarily natural, but I grant there's no evidence.

Of course there are, but nothing in the fiction leads to this being unexpected or even mysterious, aside from a line which could have a few possible meanings. It is just as possible that Ujimatsu's death is tied to the unbalancing of the kami.