1 minute ago, Rawls said:

This, on the other hand, is the sort of thing that turned me off. Being too liberal with magical power in a setting tends to undermine the drama and trivialize conflicts. Call it "Elminster syndrome".

If Elminster slipped into a coma and died every time he did something like that, I'd hate him a lot less.

4 minutes ago, Rawls said:

This, on the other hand, is the sort of thing that turned me off. Being too liberal with magical power in a setting tends to undermine the drama and trivialize conflicts. Call it "Elminster syndrome".

I get you.

But I tend to give the Phoenix a bit of a bye on this. They're the 'magic clan',and they lose a little something if we never see what Elemental Mastery actually means

3 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

I get you.

But I tend to give the Phoenix a bit of a bye on this. They're the 'magic clan',and they lose a little something if we never see what Elemental Mastery actually means

Fair enough. So long as it's rare, and the practitioner dies afterwards. Otherwise, all those Crab bushi at the wall hitting Shadowlands critters with clubs just seem lame rather than heroic.

Just to say, for me, that was far and away the best L5R short story we've been given so far - I loved reading it it was fantastic, and has made me very very hyped!

Ujitmitsu's death made it harder to like the story than I otherwise would have, but I somewhat understand it. FFG seems to be focusing on Evergreen characters and specifically those that have overarching story ties. Further, I think they are also pushing gender equality in top clan roles. All of this combines to have Tsukune and Hotaru elevated before their time, have Hoturi become Hotaru, and have Altansarnai take over for Yokatsu. Three major changes to accomodate the points above. Of course, they can't do away with Yokuni, Kisada or Shoju because all are key to the Coup and Clan War plots about to unfold.

--------------------------------------------

As to the story itself, the interplay between Tadaka and Tsukune seemed a more 'western' take on romance, but it was a refreshing change nonetheless. In the old cannon, things were often left unsaid between the two of them. In New5R, feelings seem more... overt.

A Shugenja duel between Tadaka and Rujo should be entertaining.

Tetsu is different here than in Old5R: Here, he cares about ascending to become a Champion. In Old5R, he did not. There also could be a rivalry brewing between him and Tsukune, where before he was a friendly and diligent subordinate. Lastly, from Old5R to New5R, neither source hints at his thwarted destiny of becoming a Shugenja. The needs of the clan for samurai superseded that goal. I'm wondering if this will still be a thing in New5R.

I prefer Old5R's description of how the Soul of Shiba transitions to a new Champion. The intended samurai is immediately flooded by the souls, and needs to train with the Master of Void in order to regain control over himself/herself. The sword Ofushikai merely acts as the 'check' to reassure others that this is in fact the new Champion. This method, where the sword performs an action to signify the Champion seems mundane. And in most cases that would be fine, but the transition loses a bit of the mystical element involved... I suppose a seizure would be too close to what Togashi is experiencing in the New5R cannon.

I enjoyed the description of the scenery. The setting. I think this fiction did the best job of this among all fiction to date.

Is Tadaka going to be assigned a new Yojimbo? He's going to need one when traveling to Crab lands. Which reminds me: This seems to be going the way of future Corruption. Tadaka will get his mask. Do they open the scrolls again?

I don't know. I like the way the Soul of Shiba thing is presented here. Admittedly I wasn't a huge Phoenix fan so I only vaguely recall how all this worked in the old cannon, but the way it's presented here it allows the champ to be their own person more and places the souls in more of a mentor role. It gives her more a Luke/Obi Wan relationship with the past champs or a relationship similar to in transformers where the autobot leader could call up all the past leaders stored in the matrix and call on their wisdom. I like that better than all the souls literally possessing the champ since it places more of an emphasis on the champ herself. The sword was just a device they were using in this instant to communicate, but I don't think that makes it any less significant an artifact. I guess what I'm trying to say is I like that this emphasizes their ancestors offering guidance rather than potentially having direct agency in the actions of the champ. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the whole relationship between the Soul of Shiba, the champ and the sword change as time went on in the old cannon. I thought at first the souls were tied to the sword and then later they lost the sword and the souls were all tied to the champ instead (but again I'm not a Phoenix clan expert).

1 hour ago, phillos said:

I don't know. I like the way the Soul of Shiba thing is presented here. Admittedly I wasn't a huge Phoenix fan so I only vaguely recall how all this worked in the old cannon, but the way it's presented here it allows the champ to be their own person more and places the souls in more of a mentor role. It gives her more a Luke/Obi Wan relationship with the past champs or a relationship similar to in transformers where the autobot leader could call up all the past leaders stored in the matrix and call on their wisdom. I like that better than all the souls literally possessing the champ since it places more of an emphasis on the champ herself. The sword was just a device they were using in this instant to communicate, but I don't think that makes it any less significant an artifact. I guess what I'm trying to say is I like that this emphasizes their ancestors offering guidance rather than potentially having direct agency in the actions of the champ. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the whole relationship between the Soul of Shiba, the champ and the sword change as time went on in the old cannon. I thought at first the souls were tied to the sword and then later they lost the sword and the souls were all tied to the champ instead (but again I'm not a Phoenix clan expert).

It felt a lot like Avatar the last air bender to me. Which is good because my wife jokingly said 'I will play the clan with the Firebenders.' and I was like. 'Oh, Phoenix then.'

18 minutes ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

It felt a lot like Avatar the last air bender to me. Which is good because my wife jokingly said 'I will play the clan with the Firebenders.' and I was like. 'Oh, Phoenix then.'

I'd be down for a LCG of The Last Airbender. Have it be a more story based one like Lord of the Rings or Arkham.

3 hours ago, phillos said:

I don't know. I like the way the Soul of Shiba thing is presented here. Admittedly I wasn't a huge Phoenix fan so I only vaguely recall how all this worked in the old cannon, but the way it's presented here it allows the champ to be their own person more and places the souls in more of a mentor role. It gives her more a Luke/Obi Wan relationship with the past champs or a relationship similar to in transformers where the autobot leader could call up all the past leaders stored in the matrix and call on their wisdom. I like that better than all the souls literally possessing the champ since it places more of an emphasis on the champ herself. The sword was just a device they were using in this instant to communicate, but I don't think that makes it any less significant an artifact. I guess what I'm trying to say is I like that this emphasizes their ancestors offering guidance rather than potentially having direct agency in the actions of the champ. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the whole relationship between the Soul of Shiba, the champ and the sword change as time went on in the old cannon. I thought at first the souls were tied to the sword and then later they lost the sword and the souls were all tied to the champ instead (but again I'm not a Phoenix clan expert).

To my recollection, the past Shiba Champions in the Soul of Shiba did not have direct control over Ujimitsu's actions. They provided guidance very much like what you describe in your autobot/matrix analogy.

Initially, the Souls were not tied to the sword. The Souls filled the mind of the next Champion immediately after the prior Champion had passed. The new Champion was ill equipped to handle the many souls without proper training from the Master of Void. Once trained, his/her mind would be at peace. The sword was then further verification that the Champion was indeed the one who possessed the Soul of Shiba. If he was not the true Champion, the sword would wrench itself away from his/her grip.

Over time, that relationship changed in the cannon. Ofushikai became the anchor to Shiba's Soul in Ningen-do. The container of the Souls, and the reason Shiba's Soul was allowed to remain in Ningen-do. So when the sword was taken away by Amaterasu after Onnatangu's death, Tsukune held the Souls within her. They did not speak to her without the sword, but they were there. However, if she had died, the Souls would die with her.

Long story short: To get around this, Tsukune was offered the chance to ascend to the heavens as the Fortune of Rebirth. This direct ascension to Tengoku allowed for the Souls to be preserved as one entity. While there, Shiba Aikune used Isawa's Last Wish to dissolve the bond between the Soul of Shiba and Ofushikai, and instead transferred that bond to the Shiba bloodline itself.

5 hours ago, Anemura said:

Of course, they can't do away with Yokuni, Kisada or Shoju because all are key to the Coup and Clan War plots about to unfold.

I understand that many old players are waiting to see beloved characters and plots, but I hate the idea that as a new player I will be continually exposed to spoilers..

I seriously hope that FFG will write a new story and will not follow the old one at all, other than the initial setting. No coup, different wars, different enemies altogether.

16 minutes ago, franzvong said:

I understand that many old players are waiting to see beloved characters and plots, but I hate the idea that as a new player I will be continually exposed to spoilers..

I seriously hope that FFG will write a new story and will not follow the old one at all, other than the initial setting. No coup, different wars, different enemies altogether.

Amen to that.?

I heard they stated they are not doing the SCC. If that 1 thing does not happen, the the world is already so different because it means Hantei stays on the Throne, Toturi stays Champion of the Lion, Shoju stays alive, and BAM a whole new world.

1 minute ago, shosuko said:

I heard they stated they are not doing the SCC. If that 1 thing does not happen, the the world is already so different because it means Hantei stays on the Throne, Toturi stays Champion of the Lion, Shoju stays alive, and BAM a whole new world.

I began singing the Aladdin song as soon as I read your post.?

20 minutes ago, franzvong said:

I understand that many old players are waiting to see beloved characters and plots, but I hate the idea that as a new player I will be continually exposed to spoilers..

I seriously hope that FFG will write a new story and will not follow the old one at all, other than the initial setting. No coup, different wars, different enemies altogether.

As an old player... I basically agree with you.

And certain spoilers are no longer spoilers- Shiba Ujimitsu no longer dies at the hands of an insanely Tainted Isawa Tsuke as Kyuden Isawa burns at the end of the Clan War, for example. I'd be prepared to bet that Hotaru's story is different from Hoturi's.

1 minute ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

As an old player... I basically agree with you.

And certain spoilers are no longer spoilers- Shiba Ujimitsu no longer dies at the hands of an insanely Tainted Isawa Tsuke as Kyuden Isawa burns at the end of the Clan War, for example. I'd be prepared to bet that Hotaru's story is different from Hoturi's.

Yeah, like we need a 'False Hotaru'

4 hours ago, shosuko said:

I heard they stated they are not doing the SCC. If that 1 thing does not happen, the the world is already so different because it means Hantei stays on the Throne, Toturi stays Champion of the Lion, Shoju stays alive, and BAM a whole new world.

Did they state specifically that they aren't doing SCC, or just that they won't necessarily do anything that happened in the old canon? It's all the same to me either way, though ronin Toturi is still my favorite Toturi.

4 hours ago, franzvong said:

I understand that many old players are waiting to see beloved characters and plots, but I hate the idea that as a new player I will be continually exposed to spoilers..

I seriously hope that FFG will write a new story and will not follow the old one at all, other than the initial setting. No coup, different wars, different enemies altogether.

I would be on board with a completely new story. I actually don't want to see the DoT happen. Or, the Coup. But there's a reality here in understanding where FFG had chosen to take the game. Which key characters remain. What has already been written, particularly the Crab fiction etc... Some plot points will happen, IMO.

As for spoilers: Is it your wish that no one discuss old lore? For a lot of old players, New5r cannon and Old5R cannon will be a point of discussion throughout the life of the game. That is, until the LCG storyline diverges from the CCG storyline to the point of becoming unrecognizable. That's when the story is fresh for everyone. I hope that's not a negative for you and other new players on this forum. I think it's largely unavoidable.

@Suzume Tomonori Just to chime in, I very much disliked ronin Toturi and Toturi's Army in Old5R. I hope they keep him as the Lion Clan Champion this time around. I'd also like to see a Lion Clan civil war. A war that is about the rulership of the clan, not about empire vs emperor. There is great potential there for drama.

5 minutes ago, Anemura said:

I would be on board with a completely knew story. I actually don't want to see the DoT happen. Or, the Coup. But there's a reality here in understanding where FFG had chosen to take the game. Which key characters remain. What has already been written, particularly the Crab fiction etc... Some plot points will happen, IMO.

As for spoilers: Is it your wish that no one discuss old lore? For a lot of old players, New5r cannon and Old5R cannon will be a point of discussion throughout the life of the game. That is, until the LCG storyline diverges from the CCG storyline to the point of becoming unrecognizable. That's when the story is fresh for everyone. I hope that's not a negative for you and other new players on this forum. I think it's largely unavoidable.

Which plot points were you referring to??

4 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Which plot points were you referring to??

Well, I think the Coup will happen. Kisada's March and Clan War will occur. I want to say Day of Thunder will still happen. That is effectively the purpose of Yokuni's and Shoju's presence. Likely all the same key players involved. Those would be the major ones.

10 minutes ago, Anemura said:

Well, I think the Coup will happen. Kisada's March and Clan War will occur. I want to say Day of Thunder will still happen. That is effectively the purpose of Yokuni's and Shoju's presence. Likely all the same key players involved. Those would be the major ones.

I actually doubt any of those will occur. The Dragon fiction alone puts the old story on its a$$, and they've added enough new plot points to keep the stories moving in new directions even with old characters

but I could be wrong (but I doubt it)??

14 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

I actually doubt any of those will occur. The Dragon fiction alone puts the old story on its a$$, and they've added enough new plot points to keep the stories moving in new directions even with old characters

but I could be wrong (but I doubt it)??

I would like to hear your rationale as to why? What happened in the Dragon fiction to have you think this? Further, "new plot points" mean very little unless they upset older plots. Do you see any new plot rendering the Coup, Clan War or DoT plots as now unlikely to occur?

1 minute ago, Anemura said:

I would like to hear your rationale as to why? What happened in the Dragon fiction to have you think this? Further, "new plot points" mean very little unless they upset older plots. Do you see any new plot rendering the Coup, Clan War or DoT plots as now unlikely to occur?

As to the Dragon fiction, Togashi kept the Dragon in the mountains until they were needed by Toturi at Beiden. This time, they're moving out now, to be ready for 'Togashi's vision'. The vision that could be just as easily about the Crabs current troubles, as some allusion to the old timeline. Another is, the depiction of Kisada is subtlety but definitely different. He shows a bit less virulent hatred for the emperor,while still being unhappy with getting no help. That and in the original, the shadowlands were quiet instead of in danger of overrunning the wall.

Is any of this conclusive proof? Not at all.

But the dominos of the old timeline have been moved.

I believe the old characters are here more for fan service and to show that this is a 'new beginning '

At the moment we're still in the set-up phase with all the fictions, so I don't know that we can say definitively where the plot is or is not going yet. At the moment I think they could still basically do the old plot almost story for story (with some character changes), though I doubt that they will do so. I have a feeling FFG wants to surprise us with the plot, at any rate, so I expect things to veer away from the old plot.

1 hour ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

As to the Dragon fiction, Togashi kept the Dragon in the mountains until they were needed by Toturi at Beiden. This time, they're moving out now, to be ready for 'Togashi's vision'. The vision that could be just as easily about the Crabs current troubles, as some allusion to the old timeline. Another is, the depiction of Kisada is subtlety but definitely different. He shows a bit less virulent hatred for the emperor,while still being unhappy with getting no help. That and in the original, the shadowlands were quiet instead of in danger of overrunning the wall.

Is any of this conclusive proof? Not at all.

But the dominos of the old timeline have been moved.

I believe the old characters are here more for fan service and to show that this is a 'new beginning '

The Dragon Clan, or a portion of, was present at the Scorpion Clan Coup. This mobilization of the Dragon Clan's army could be just that. Yokuni's vision also is a metaphor for the Coup, IMO.

I'm not sure we will get anywhere by dissecting the degree of Kisada's disdain for the Emperor. The more important fact to pull from the Crab fiction is that the questioning of the emperor is present. This is a Champion that is questioning his lord, which leads to the motivation behind doing something to address his clan's plight. That's the key tidbit from there, and it directly aligns with what he could do.

It's interesting that we see each story so differently, and how each fits into what we each perceive to be the overarching plot. To me, nothing has really changed to the point where I expect the SCC, CW and DoT to not exist.

4 minutes ago, Anemura said:

The Dragon Clan, or a portion of, was present at the Scorpion Clan Coup. This mobilization of the Dragon Clan's army could be just that. Yokuni's vision also is a metaphor for the Coup, IMO.

I'm not sure we will get anywhere by dissecting the degree of Kisada's disdain for the Emperor. The more important fact to pull from the Crab fiction is that the questioning of the emperor is present. This is a Champion that is questioning his lord, which leads to the motivation behind doing something to address his clan's plight. That's the key tidbit from there, and it directly aligns with what he could do.

It's interesting that we see each story so differently, and how each fits into what we each perceive to be the overarching plot. To me, nothing has really changed to the point where I expect the SCC, CW and DoT to not exist.

Well one difference, the Scorpion weren't a playable faction in the beginning of the CCG.

Now they are. So we're talking about essentially destroying a player faction. A popular one at that. Then we'd have to deal with the story gymnastics that got them reinstated later.

They could do it,but I believe it would be a mistake. It's also taking us far away from the 'character driven' stories FFG has been talking up. By going back to the klugey plot monster stories of yesteryear they're making the same mistakes AEG made.

If they wanted to keep the same story, why not keep the characters as they were? They could have just given out new player story prizes for different outcomes of events.