2 hours ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

I suspect that the "old timer" trinity might be political/military/spiritual as well with Shoju being the political, Kisada being the military and Yokuni being the Spiritual.

Unicorn are likely just outsiders right now and may possibly end up forming an outsider trinity with new factions later.

I really like the dynamic. There are 3 younger and 3 older Champions, each with a different place of power. It creates 2 trinities for good story telling. I kinda wonder how the Unicorn will factor in... and slightly worried they may steal the last story spot and be the ones to tie it all together instead of the Scorpion...

1 hour ago, wolfien8 said:

2. The foreshadowing here is good. The main thing I notice out of this is that there are 3 clans worried about the big threats and 2 are bickering among themselves. Phoenix see an imbalance, Crab see the Shadowlands, and Dragon see a major threat. All three seem to have very real threats ahead of them. Meanwhile the Crane and Lion are too busy bickering among themselves to care at all. Fighting for a little teeny province when there are major threats ahead. On top of that there was an (alleged) assassination of the Right Hand of the Emperor and the Crane and Lion don't seem to care, so much for being Left and Right hands of the Emperor if all they care about is their little feud. The Empire is in danger and the only ones who have the Emperors ear are the Scorpion (which is probably a good thing since they don't seem to be caught up in the little squabble). How the Unicorn fit in, I am not sure. Makes me have kind of a distaste for the Crane and Lion. So what if you have honor, doesn't matter if there is no Empire left.

In addition to the dual trinities Ultimatecalibur put up above, politically there is a natural trinity between the Lion, Crane and Scorpion. They are the three clans closest to the Emperor, and all sharing boarders. None of them really have an outside border either, so they are in constant feuds and alliances. I wonder if the Scorpion story will play more into the Lion v Crane war, or if they will step out into the unbalance that Kisada, Yokuni, and the Phoenix face...

Also - as I said above - I am really wondering where the Unicorn will play into this. They are normally the "outsiders" often overlooked... but with the other stories directly, and subtly intertwining I wonder how their story will weave in. I will be sorely disappointed if they have a simple "we're foreign and don't understand things" story, but greatly impressed if they play an important role in the imbalance that Kisada, Yokuni, and the Phoenix face. Maybe their foreign magic and traditions mixed with the Rokugan culture has caused the PLS to form and spread, and cause the kami to be out of wack, and maybe they have something brewing that smells like Taint to Kisada...

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

Also, you have to keep in mind that at this point, every bone in his body was still a fine dust from Fu Leng literally dropping a literal mountain on him the week before.

1 hour ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Duty, as they say, is heavier than a mountain.

Shots fired. Tsuruchi isn't even a Samurai, he has no clue the challenges Hotaru faces just by being in charge. Satsume dropped such a duty on Hotaru and she was still able come out smelling like a rose. Tsuruchi was "arrows from the woods" in ol5r... but I think Hotaru is gonna take his place! She already has a higher body count with a bow.

5 minutes ago, shosuko said:

I really like the dynamic. There are 3 younger and 3 older Champions, each with a different place of power. It creates 2 trinities for good story telling. I kinda wonder how the Unicorn will factor in... and slightly worried they may steal the last story spot and be the ones to tie it all together instead of the Scorpion...

In addition to the dual trinities Ultimatecalibur put up above, politically there is a natural trinity between the Lion, Crane and Scorpion. They are the three clans closest to the Emperor, and all sharing boarders. None of them really have an outside border either, so they are in constant feuds and alliances. I wonder if the Scorpion story will play more into the Lion v Crane war, or if they will step out into the unbalance that Kisada, Yokuni, and the Phoenix face...

Also - as I said above - I am really wondering where the Unicorn will play into this. They are normally the "outsiders" often overlooked... but with the other stories directly, and subtly intertwining I wonder how their story will weave in. I will be sorely disappointed if they have a simple "we're foreign and don't understand things" story, but greatly impressed if they play an important role in the imbalance that Kisada, Yokuni, and the Phoenix face. Maybe their foreign magic and traditions mixed with the Rokugan culture has caused the PLS to form and spread, and cause the kami to be out of wack, and maybe they have something brewing that smells like Taint to Kisada...

It's probably me, but have the Unicorn even been mentioned outside of the Dragon fiction? It seems as if the clans are just completely ignoring them as players on this stage. (And can make me a touch worried for how they may be treated at the start of the new canon.)

2 hours ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Gunichi should be happy that he is getting his Phoenix Shugenja/Yojimbo star-crossed lovers plot.

I'm happy with this fiction on a number of levels-

1. The focus is on the Shiba. Sure, Tadaka and the Masters are present, but this isn't an entirely "look at all our magical magic stuff being magic!"

2. Nyah nyah, WE got Spooky to write our debut piece!

3. Tsukune is probably my hands-down favorite Phoenix Champion from the old lore, so... yeah, glad to have her.

4. Tadaka rocks. Between him and Tsukune being present, we've pretty much covered the bases for "Phoenix characters from this era that I can be bothered to remember." And yes, the Phoenix getting the "yojimbo/charge" romance and having it doomed is a delight.

5. The story of the Phoenix will be different this time. This is a good thing, 'cause their previous outing was a case one one dangerous/bad thing done for the right reasons, coupled with an otherwise Unicorn-esque absence from the major events of the story. They may still make many of the same decisions, but... it won't be the same old song and dance.

6. The Ivory Tower detachment of the Masters in the face of a serious debacle in the midst of one of the most solemn ceremonies the Phoenix could ever hold is telling. The Isawa may not be the maho-happy villains of popular imagining during the prior lore, but they are absolutely convinced that they know more than you and that it's a good thing they do. I forsee wonderful exchanges between them and the Unicorn. Wonderful.

7. Soul of Shiba. Never alone. Rawk. Where Hotaru is alone with her sense of inadequacy, and Toturi is hesitant and not fully trusted by all of his Clan, Tsukune has support neither of them could imagine.

8. I REALLY hope that Fire apprentice who took a dive for the public good is Dairya.

9. Tsukune looking out for the little guys during the shrine fire was telling. Others went to save things- Tsukune acted to save people. That may well be why the Soul chose her.

2 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

5. The story of the Phoenix will be different this time. This is a good thing, 'cause their previous outing was a case one one dangerous/bad thing done for the right reasons, coupled with an otherwise Unicorn-esque absence from the major events of the story. They may still make many of the same decisions, but... it won't be the same old song and dance.

Having not much knowledge of old lore, can you elaborate?

12 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Having not much knowledge of old lore, can you elaborate?

In the old story, the Phoenix Clan's only serious contribution to the Clan War was the Council of Masters opening the Black Scrolls (all but the Master of Void) and getting Tainted. They did this to gain knowledge of the threats facing the empire, which, guess what, they totally did. YAY! Problem was, maho leads to maho, so Isawa Tsuke lost his fool mind, and a bit later in the chain of events basically incinerated most of his own Clan before Tadaka and Ujimitsu stopped him.

The knowledge the Phoenix uncovered allowed the prophecy of the Seven Thunders to be known. It also basically saddled them with a reputation as maho-slinging lunatics for the rest of time.

3 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

In the old story, the Phoenix Clan's only serious contribution to the Clan War was the Council of Masters opening the Black Scrolls (all but the Master of Void) and getting Tainted. They did this to gain knowledge of the threats facing the empire, which, guess what,t hey totally did. YAY! Problem was, maho leads to maho, so Isawa Tsuke lost his fool mind, and a bit later in the chain of events basically incinerated most of his own Clan before Tadaka and Ujimitsu stopped him.

The knowledge the Phoenix uncovered allowed the prophecy of the Seven Thunders to be known. It also basically saddled them with a reputation as maho-slinging lunatics for the rest of time.

So because Ujimitsu is already dead this won't happen?

Phoenix had tendency to be constant redoing of the "science people playing with forces beyond their understanding and unleashing something bad on the world" trope all over and over. To be fair, it was the time where everyone and their dog expected some kind of man-made apocalypse, starting with nuclear war and ending with AI taking over the world. Anti-intellectual and anti-scientific (and magic is pretty often a stand-in for science) were pretty "trendy" back then and resonated well with the zeitgeist. Other than L5R, you can see it in world of darkness games and about a fuckaton metric of other popculture.

Just now, RandomJC said:

So because Ujimitsu is already dead this won't happen?

Among other things- the imbalance of the kami is also a new wrinkle, giving the Phoenix better motivations for untoward actions. Like, you know, blaming the Unicorn for the whole mess...

1 minute ago, WHW said:

Phoenix had tendency to be constant redoing of the "science people playing with forces beyond their understanding and unleashing something bad on the world" trope all over and over. To be fair, it was the time where everyone and their dog expected some kind of man-made apocalypse, starting with nuclear war and ending with AI taking over the world. Anti-intellectual and anti-scientific (and magic is pretty often a stand-in for science) were pretty "trendy" back then and resonated well with the zeitgeist. Other than L5R, you can see it in world of darkness games and about a fuckaton metric of other popculture.

It's what makes going back and looking at Sci-fi from the late 90s really cringeworthy.

Just now, Shiba Gunichi said:

Among other things- the imbalance of the kami is also a new wrinkle, giving the Phoenix better motivations for untoward actions. Like, you know, blaming the Unicorn for the whole mess...

I'm more concerned by the lack of mention of the Unicorn in just about any fiction outside of the Dragon. No one is paying attention to us.

1 minute ago, WHW said:

Phoenix had tendency to be constant redoing of the "science people playing with forces beyond their understanding and unleashing something bad on the world" trope all over and over. To be fair, it was the time where everyone and their dog expected some kind of man-made apocalypse, starting with nuclear war and ending with AI taking over the world. Anti-intellectual and anti-scientific (and magic is pretty often a stand-in for science) were pretty "trendy" back then and resonated well with the zeitgeist. Other than L5R, you can see it in world of darkness games and about a fuckaton metric of other popculture.

So now we can expect the story to center around an old, fair-haired merchant making a deal with the Ivory Kingdoms, convincing them to badmouth his competition and eventually become Emperor?

3 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

I'm more concerned by the lack of mention of the Unicorn in just about any fiction outside of the Dragon. No one is paying attention to us.

To be fair, I believe the Dragon, Scorpion, and Crab were mentioned only once in fiction. I think the Unicorn have a complex.

2 minutes ago, Shu2jack said:

To be fair, I believe the Dragon, Scorpion, and Crab were mentioned only once in fiction. I think the Unicorn have a complex.

Scorpion had a guest character. And I have no distinct memory of most the minutia of the stories.

11 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

So because Ujimitsu is already dead this won't happen?

To be honest, Ujimitsu did not contribute much to that fight. IIRC, he took a fireball in the face and fell off from a wall, that was all.

8 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

I'm more concerned by the lack of mention of the Unicorn in just about any fiction outside of the Dragon. No one is paying attention to us.

Well, most of the Clan fictions don't talk about many other Clans:

Crane: Imperial, Scorpion, a tiny mention of Dragon

Lion: Crane

Dragon: Unicorn, Phoenix

Crab: Imperial

Phoenix: No-one

29 minutes ago, shosuko said:

Shots fired. Tsuruchi isn't even a Samurai, he has no clue the challenges Hotaru faces just by being in charge. Satsume dropped such a duty on Hotaru and she was still able come out smelling like a rose. Tsuruchi was "arrows from the woods" in ol5r... but I think Hotaru is gonna take his place! She already has a higher body count with a bow.

You have to look at more than just weight, though. A literal mountain falling on you happens in an instant, so the weight happens all at once. Duty may be heavier in an absolute sense, but it's spread out over one's life, so the temporal pressure is actually considerably less. That's just basic science!

And any bushi should be able to use a bow to some extent! At such a short range, it would have been more impressive if she'd managed to miss her target! Such shots as those do not a legendary archer make!

Though, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if maybe it wouldn't be better if Tsuruchi never showed up in any fictions in person. Give him a card, and let his followers and descendants appear, but keep him as an epic, mythic figure known only through song and legend (and cool abilities on his card)!

Just now, Tonbo Karasu said:

Well, most of the Clan fictions don't talk about many other Clans:

Crane: Imperial, Scorpion, a tiny mention of Dragon

Lion: Crane

Dragon: Unicorn, Phoenix

Crab: Imperial

Phoenix: No-one

Crane also had references to the Phoenix and Crab.

And Phoenix did reference the Lion.

14 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

I'm more concerned by the lack of mention of the Unicorn in just about any fiction outside of the Dragon. No one is paying attention to us.

Crab didn't talk about other clans, only the emperor, Dragon only mentioned the Unicorn and Phoenix. The fictions have mainly focused on the clan they are about, I wouldn't worry too much.

Just now, wolfien8 said:

Crab didn't talk about other clans, only the emperor, Dragon only mentioned the Unicorn and Phoenix. The fictions have mainly focused on the clan they are about, I wouldn't worry too much.

I'm always going to worry.

You know, if the developers didn't include the Unicorn the game would've been ready by now. Too much time spent on a 7th clan...

Just now, Shu2jack said:

You know, if the developers didn't include the Unicorn the game would've been ready by now. Too much time spent on a 7th clan...

...

3 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

I'm always going to worry.

At least you get a seat at the table, Mantis and Spider (RIP) both aren't in at all. As someone who enjoyed playing Spider a little, I was sad to hear they would not be included, at least the Unicorn are still a clan at all.

Just now, wolfien8 said:

At least you get a seat at the table, Mantis and Spider (RIP) both aren't in at all. As someone who enjoyed playing Spider a little, I was sad to hear they would not be included, at least the Unicorn are still a clan at all.

L5R Forum drinking game - Mention of Spider/Mantis not being a clan - drink

Just now, wolfien8 said:

At least you get a seat at the table, Mantis and Spider (RIP) both aren't in at all. As someone who enjoyed playing Spider a little, I was sad to hear they would not be included, at least the Unicorn are still a clan at all.

This is a complicated feeling, but boils down to that neither of these clans are original clans in L5R, and by rewinding the clock they don't exist as of yet. It'd be different than just rewriting out an entire clan's existence. (Also, I say this with perhaps all the politeness I can, but I f***ing hate the spider)