I've been practicing my tournament list lately trying to get as many different matchups as possible as I want to take it to regionals this year. I am currently sitting 24-6 with it. I have gone over this list hard and I can't find anyways to improve it, and talking to much more seasoned players and smarter list builders than I they see no way to improve it either. I fly it very well and a couple others have tried it and ditched it as they can't figure it out.

I have identified two very tough matchups - bombs and TLT. Ace bombers specifically being a huge issue.

Here is the list:

Jess Pava (25)
R2-D6 (1)
Swarm Leader (3)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Jan Ors (25)
Trick Shot (0)
Dorsal Turret (3)
Nien Nunb (1)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Juke (2)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Snap Shot (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Juke (2)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Snap Shot (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Matchups that I've flown:

Dengar/Bossk - flown against this 3 times. Won all 3 times. It's a tough matchup, but once Dengar dies gets a lot easier. - played against it twice

Imperial Aces - it crumbled and died - played a handful of times

2SF/OL - it crumbled and died - played three times

Dash/Poe - it crumbled and died - played twice

Dengar/Fenn - it crumbled and died - played twice

2 Scouts/Fenn - it crumbled and died - played three times

OldFennaroo - it crumbled and died. played twice

Agromech/Torp scouts - lost an A-wing. Played this 3 times

Dengar/Assaj - Tractorbeams are not fun for my list. I have only played against it once and got wrecked hard! Lost in first round of combat, biggest loss I've had

Mixed Defender/TLT squad - very close match, I made a critical mistake early and lost an A-wing first round. Won this one

TLT Thug life - Lost this one, came down to Jan Ors at full health vs a half health Y-Wing. Y-Wing got me in the end. Smartest opponent yet for how to take down my list focusing on the A-wings first.

Miranda/Nym - The best bomber player in the city flew this, he is very very good. He took a self inflicted proton bomb, otherwise I did hardly anything other than take shields of Miranda and scratched Nym a bit. This was harsh... 2 TLT controlling the 2/3 range band, and if I get into R1 he just bombs me and I die. I can't use Snap/Juke effectively because if I setup for blocks/R1 he just bombs them and the A-wings crumbled. My list is built for R1 engagements.

Kannan/Biggs - Biggs died first round of combat. I flew this game poorly jousting the Ghost with full mods and Finn after Biggs died. TLT slaughtered me. I got the Ghost in the end, but lost to the shuttle when it deployed. 1 A-Wing at 1 health vs a full health Zeb when it deploys behind me.

So... TLT's are a big issue. No room to throw Auto-thrusters on this list which is something I really really want to do. However, Jan has proved too effective with the Dorsal/Nien combo that I can't spare those points. that 4 straight being green has been very important. the Dorsal has proved to be problematic to those that thing they can get in close to her. Luckily my list excels at Range 1 engagements, an TLT doesn't like the bubble. So I can usually down 2 TLT lists easily enough depending on the Ace or ace/s flying with them. Four of them do present a challenge... Or the double tap from Kanan Biggs.

Bombers - specifically Ace Bombers with TLT. I have no idea how to do this one... to reiterate, I loose if I try to keep my engagement at R3. The TLT's will tear me apart. I can't hide in the rocks like I usually do against turrets because bombers will just shut down the lanes. If I go for R1 engagement I get bombed. It is a VERY bad match up. When I fly against it again I'll try to keep at R3 and 6 dice with Jess to try and take down one of them. I won't catch Miranda, but I might catch Nym and kill him in 2 turns.

I'm not looking for help with the list, I think it's set in stone at this point. I'm looking for advice on strategies on how to deal with TLT and bombers. I usually take 2 big rocks and a big debris cloud. Thinking of maybe swapping to 2 large debris and 1 large rock.

It's the A-Wings. Not enough "crunch power".

Well this doesn't bode well against the new hotness of Captain Nym who is both an Ace Bomber and TLT user.

7 minutes ago, Chibi-Nya said:

Well this doesn't bode well against the new hotness of Captain Nym who is both an Ace Bomber and TLT user.

nope, not at all. not when someone is flying him properly anyways. I've killed 3/4 Nym's I've faced because 3 of them tried to joust me and get the cruise missile off.. Jess took 2 shields once, then slapped back with 7 dice after the A-Wings and Jan softened him up a bit. Those 3 times I've killed Nym, he only got cruises off and then went poof.

15 minutes ago, Fuzzywookie said:

It's the A-Wings. Not enough "crunch power".

they crunch pretty good actually I think that is the key to the list, let the opponent think they should just joust it because... it's A-wings and a Hawk with a low PS X-Wing... really... that can't do much? but it does!

An Alpha strike Cruise Missile list might give you trouble too.

TLTs are owning you because your list seems to bank on evasive maneuvers rather than raw damage, and TLTs counter that.

You have a potential 7 die attack on Jess, but the issue is she cant reliably get doublemods on it to make it reliable, you need arc with both Awings (difficult if theyre trying to snapshot), and Jan needs to still be alive (shes super squishy). Basically you are banking on a gamble if you come across a list you need to gun down asap, which is what TLTs are, and bombs mess up your swarm leader positioning.

Not really sure what you could do to improve that list. If it were me i'd probably drop Jan and upgrade the other 3 (awings w/ autos or VTs, Jess w/ a Tech, and give the Awings some Prockets or Cruise Missiles). Jan's bonus die is nice but for the most part its not worth it because shes also a dang close to 30pt tax to get it and doesnt do much unless she has TLTs herself, which makes her even more expensive.
However i wouldnt try an alpha with cruise missiles, unless youre high PS or have LRS theyre not a good alpha due to requiring to move super fast. They are, however, a great round2 attack. When you fly past your target, get a Tlock rather than Broll to get a little better position to turn around and come back in screaming with a cruise missile at the ready.

@Vineheart01 I have no problems or adjustments to make to the list. As I stated in the original post I fly it very well and have dealt with other high-alpha lists quite easily. Jess does reliably get double mods (focus/ability), the A-Wings do regularly snap, and Jan does a lot more than other people expect (extra die for the A-Wings on the snap is a hilarious surprise) and actually does okay damage. She has the same overall hitpoints of an X-Wing with the same 2 evade dice. I've tried dropping Jan for another A and upgrading the existing A's and it just doesn't work as good. I know on paper it doesn't seem tanky or offensively effective... And the 7 die from Jess gets off on average 2 times a game, often 4-5 dice attacks are her average. I usually use the A-Wings to strip tokens and situation depending give an A-wing the extra die from Jan. Then Jess hits last and throws 4-6 dice situation depending. It is a very versatile list that allows me a lot of options on the board.

I'm aware it is an uphill battle against TLT and bombs... but how do swarms and other lists that are typically not suited to taking on tLT/Bomb lists compete with them?

Oooh. What about cruise missiles on Awings....

8 minutes ago, FrightfulCommand said:

Oooh. What about cruise missiles on Awings....

I don't like it lol

I tried this for fun:

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Juke (2)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Deadeye (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Juke (2)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Deadeye (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Juke (2)
Proton Rockets (3)
Crack Shot (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Juke (2)
Proton Rockets (3)
Crack Shot (1)
Guidance Chips (0)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Juke is there for late game to help with offense. The crackshot/pocket rockets did a lot more damage.

I'd think alpha strike lists could be an issue.

3 or 4 strong attacks could easily kill Jess before she can fire.

I think my list would have a good chance to do that.

Please stop critiquing the list guys. I'm looking for strategy tips. The list does not need critique, it has proven very effective against many meta calls and very good players. I'm looking for tips on dealing with TLT/Bombers which is a very bad matchup in rock/paper/scissors.

Bombers - I think you are going to have to drop your strategy of keeping them together for swarm leader and run them in a pincer movement to avoid the bombs hitting all or most of the ships. It will be tough.

TLT - rush as best as you can one TLT at at time and hopefully PS kill. It will be tough.

22 minutes ago, Moohnzie said:

Bombers - I think you are going to have to drop your strategy of keeping them together for swarm leader and run them in a pincer movement to avoid the bombs hitting all or most of the ships. It will be tough.

TLT - rush as best as you can one TLT at at time and hopefully PS kill. It will be tough.

I'm not sure I agree entirely. The A's should be acting as your "screen" to block bombers on their maneuver to protect Jess and Jan (easier said than done ). The resulting R1 shots should at least come close to killing Miranda/Nym. If it's Nym you're against, the greens will still eat a bomb, but that's not the end of the world.

Against TLT's... You could always fortress, and let them come straight at you. If they choose not to, take your chances at final salvo. Likely 8v8. A 50/50 chance is waaay better for you than engaging a TLT list on their terms...

The only thing I can think of is to try and get in the TLT bubble perpendicular to their ship? The bombs will probably still get you

That's a tough nut. TLT with bombs seems like it's the go-to hard counter to your list. Just hope you don't get bad match-ups and then if you do, just stick to the basics: focus fire, bumping, & drawing them through the rocks. I mean, what else can you do? As good as it is, maybe this is as good as it gets. Maybe that's why others are suggesting changes to your list.

Yea I think so. I'm just trying to prep for every possible matchup so that I can have a plan of attack for each and every opponent. This isn't a meta list and is pretty janky so I doubt many will be expecting it to do as well as it does. Not every list is good against every other list, but being prepared and having a game plan for those uphill battles is better than dying in round 2 or 3 lol

So... What your asking is, how do I beat your best list? That Sir is a secret. Why? Because I like to win also.

I'd swap to ptl a wings. Jan is probably not helping too much, given her squishiness and lack of maneuverability - she's there for the die only almost. Try Ashoka or Rex

Hmmm....

It's a nice list. Trading a third A-wing for Jan is a nice idea - giving Jess a bit of reliable extra teeth even if she's got no support in arc, and adding a pilot who can actually fly at the speed 1 that an X-wing wants to manoeuvre at...

16 hours ago, Wiredin said:

So... TLT's are a big issue. No room to throw Auto-thrusters on this list which is something I really really want to do. However, Jan has proved too effective with the Dorsal/Nien combo that I can't spare those points. that 4 straight being green has been very important. the Dorsal has proved to be problematic to those that thing they can get in close to her. Luckily my list excels at Range 1 engagements, an TLT doesn't like the bubble. So I can usually down 2 TLT lists easily enough depending on the Ace or ace/s flying with them. Four of them do present a challenge... Or the double tap from Kanan Biggs.

Bombers - specifically Ace Bombers with TLT. I have no idea how to do this one... to reiterate, I loose if I try to keep my engagement at R3. The TLT's will tear me apart. I can't hide in the rocks like I usually do against turrets because bombers will just shut down the lanes. If I go for R1 engagement I get bombed. It is a VERY bad match up. When I fly against it again I'll try to keep at R3 and 6 dice with Jess to try and take down one of them. I won't catch Miranda, but I might catch Nym and kill him in 2 turns.

You still need to do block, trap, kaboom, even against a bomber list - Against Miranda this is an issue, because if you don't quite block her, she'll either overshoot and bomb you, or undershoot, take maybe 2 damage from the snap shots, SLAM over you....and bomb you. If she collides, she can't drop bombs (because she usually carries mines)

Nym, on the other hand, has barrel roll and maybe boost (if they've shelled for engine upgrade, which they probably have for Rebel Nym because he's not immune to his own bombs). That's quite possibly not enough to clear a guy in front of him. However, with Havoc/Genius he can drop a bomblet even if he rams someone.

I'd agree Nym is the easier to catch and kill, and probably the one you should take out first given a chance.

I'd definitely take lots of big debris clouds. You've got the more manoeuvrable squad in close, whilst SLAM-ing ships are fast, they like to do big, sweeping banks, which needs lots of open space.

I think range 1 with the A-wings, range 2 with Jess/Jan is probably the best combination; range 3 is good for your opponent because they're getting range combat bonuses and you're not. Catching higher pilot skill targets at range 1 is hard, and when screwing up means eating a bomb and getting no shot, more trouble than its worth.

16 hours ago, Wiredin said:

Please stop critiquing the list guys. I'm looking for strategy tips. The list does not need critique, it has proven very effective against many meta calls and very good players. I'm looking for tips on dealing with TLT/Bombers which is a very bad matchup in rock/paper/scissors.

TLT - Stay in range 1

Bombs - avoid them.

There how about that? I personally dont see what is hard in your list. You have a good variance in abilities and PS, but this game is turning back into Ace Wing. With High PS alpha strikes being a thing, I think Jess will get killed before she shoots. Leaving 3 ships shooting 2 red die to clean up.

The most important thing with manoeuvrable turrets, especially bomb-carrying manoeuvrable turrets, is don't get drawn into a chase.

If they turn away from you, let them go - turn away yourself with the A-wings, and head to cut them off at the pass - outside TLT range so you can afford to boost and can get there first. Keep the chase up (from a safe range) with Jess and Jan until you've got your prospective target boxed in, then close. If you can leave yourself in a situation where he's heading towards you, most of the utility of bombs goes away.

TLTs? Autothrusters are the best strategy as you already know. Flying well and getting in the R1 is tough when they have all or most of their squad; focus them and take the shots; there's no silver billet save thrusters. Seems your a good enough pilot as most everything "crumbles" at your skills, so you'll do as well as an Autothruster-less squad can.

Bombs.....ugh, you just have to plan well ahead and again, outfly them as your A's must get the blocks, and take some hits for the team.

There are some good strategies here. Thank you for those that are giving me some options.

I know the list doesn't seem like much on paper and it shouldn't work, but it does surprisingly well for me. Its really only one of a handful of lists I can fly competitively and continue doing very well with. That and it's a load of fun to fly! So that helps. It is actually very efficient in design already and even I am surprised at the damage it puts through even without Jess in the fight.

IF - big IF... Alpha striking Cruise Missiles become a problem for this list...

Jess Pava (25)
R2-D6 (1)
Primed Thrusters (1)
Swarm Leader (3)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Biggs Darklighter (25)
R4-D6 (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Crack Shot (1)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Snap Shot (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Crack Shot (1)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Snap Shot (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

helps against TLT too. Juke on average only proc's 2-4 times a game...almost always on the snap shot. but I feel loosing Jan is giving up a lot of offense. I use her surprisingly more to boost the Snap Shot attack than Jess's attack.