11 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

Any ship with at least 1 pilot seen in competitive play is in a comparitively good place right now. X-wings are far from first in line for yet another fix.

While that's not wrong, you could also acknowledge that the meatbag Biggs has to be flown in a certain way and built in a certain way, which means he's a NPE for squadbuilding and even playing for the one who uses him . And that should let you appreciate all the calls for fixes, because more X-Wing could definitely mean less Biggs.

I wouldn't mind if they made T-65s better at the thing that they did in the movies, firing torpedoes. I figured something like this:

[No idea one what the name would be]

Title -3

You may not equip this card if your action bar has the [boost] action. (to keep t-70s out, as earlier in the thread this was pointed out to be the easiest way)

You MUST equip a torpedo upgrade card of at least 3 squad points in value, and you may equip an additional modification that is 1 squad point or less.

When attacking with a secondary weapon that instructs you to discard the card to perform the attack, if you have a focus token, you may spend it instead of discarding the upgrade.

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

While that's not wrong, you could also acknowledge that the meatbag Biggs has to be flown in a certain way and built in a certain way, which means he's a NPE for squadbuilding and even playing for the one who uses him . And that should let you appreciate all the calls for fixes, because more X-Wing could definitely mean less Biggs.

Because Whisper, Soontir, Dengar, Fenn, Corran, Miranda, etc, don't each have a specific build and flight pattern and aren't seen as NPE by some people?

To differentiate T-65 upgrades from T-70: "You may not equip this card if your upgrade bar contains [tech]"

That way you can hand out an engine upgrade, but still equip your title.

Personally I'd love to see squadron titles.

1 hour ago, ViscerothSWG said:

Because Whisper, Soontir, Dengar, Fenn, Corran, Miranda, etc, don't each have a specific build and flight pattern and aren't seen as NPE by some people?

There's not much reason for a discussion when you treat the difficult and intricate flight patterns of Whisper, Soontir, Corran or Miranda equivalent to "stay-in-range-1" Biggs. Maybe try to understand different opinions for once.

12 hours ago, Chibi-Nya said:

Both go in the integrated Astromech slot and Engine costs way too much.

Looks like you prefer a 0 point shield upgrade over 2 point option to add barrel roll. EU of course is very expensive for everyone. But @the1hodgy was alluding to the X-Wing issue being green manoeuvres and repositioning which R2 and VT seem to address. To me I'd be thinking of VT for the high PS X-Wing pilots, who get the most out of repositioning, and IA on the lower ones. But that's just my warped Imperial perspective.

6 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Looks like you prefer a 0 point shield upgrade over 2 point option to add barrel roll. EU of course is very expensive for everyone. But @the1hodgy was eluding to the X-Wing issue being green manoeuvres and repositioning which R2 and VT seem to address. To me I'd be thinking of VT for the high PS X-Wing pilots, who get the most out of repositioning, and IA on the lower ones. But that's just my warped Imperial perspective.

From one warped imperial to another, the word is "alluding." Eluding is what those rebel scum are attempting to do to our probes that we've launched throughout the galaxy.

I say VT for everyone. Get REAL fluffy and never sacrifice your astromech, like the good-hearted rebel you are, and barrel rolls just look cooler.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

While that's not wrong, you could also acknowledge that the meatbag Biggs has to be flown in a certain way and built in a certain way, which means he's a NPE for squadbuilding and even playing for the one who uses him . And that should let you appreciate all the calls for fixes, because more X-Wing could definitely mean less Biggs.

But i think Wes and Wedge are good ships... but i don't like biggs, i think he is bad against good pilots who can fly well, and that is who i want to beat.

I am a crazy person who does not think the X-wing needs a fix.

Ships i think could use some help:

• E-wing (even corran, has not caused me a loss in a very long time)
• Z-95 (i find it real hard to take over an A-wing or a M3a)
• Tie interceptor (pains me to say it but every time i try to build with it there are better options that end up taking its place)
• Tie Phantom (even whisper, cant remember the last time i lost to whisper)
• G1-A (although i have won a kit tournament with a generic in my list its just outclassed by alot of things)

I think all of those ships need help long before the T-65 or T-70

Now do i think they are bad ships? no not really there are circumstances they work well in, however outside those precise circumstances they are outclassed so unless i am looking for something in particular (in the G1-A's case in my list i was looking for something to make you toss red dice at to keep my m3a clean while it killed you and its 1 agility and big hit points coupled with fire control 3 reds meant you had to toss dice at it) they get replaced by a ship in the similar point bracket that just feels better.

24 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

There's not much reason for a discussion when you treat the difficult and intricate flight patterns of Whisper, Soontir, Corran or Miranda equivalent to "stay-in-range-1" Biggs. Maybe try to understand different opinions for once.

Ps9 boost+broll is harder than the intricacies of formation flying and balancing when and when not to funnel damage toward Biggs?

I understand that is your opinion, but will never accept the faulty premise used the formulate it.

4 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

Ps9 boost+broll is harder than the intricacies of formation flying and balancing when and when not to funnel damage toward Biggs?

I understand that is your opinion, but will never accept the faulty premise used the formulate it.

This, a good opponent just separates biggs out, or outright kills him fast. Keeping biggs in range one of everyone is very hard against someone skilled on the other side of the board.

A friend of mine came up with this.

I've got the perfect fix for the t-65 (hint*hint, share this on those ffg forums!):

"Rogue Sqdrn. Pilot"
Title, Xwing only
Cost 2 points
Your action bar gains the Barrel Roll action icon.
Your maneuver dial gains the 2, white, Segnor's loop icons.

This would put t-65 back in the dogfighting race, and still allow for use of Integrated Astromech in the mod slot (as opposed to having to use "vectored thrusters" to get that 2 point barrel roll.

36 minutes ago, CasoPrime said:

A friend of mine came up with this.

I've got the perfect fix for the t-65 (hint*hint, share this on those ffg forums!):

"Rogue Sqdrn. Pilot"
Title, Xwing only
Cost 2 points
Your action bar gains the Barrel Roll action icon.
Your maneuver dial gains the 2, white, Segnor's loop icons.

This would put t-65 back in the dogfighting race, and still allow for use of Integrated Astromech in the mod slot (as opposed to having to use "vectored thrusters" to get that 2 point barrel roll.

Except it's not possible to change a Maneuver Dial since it is a physical object...

Also, 2 white Sloops is broken. We know this because 1 white Sloop is already broken.

10 hours ago, HammerGibbens said:

the word is "alluding.

*hangs head in shame*

I just want X-wings to get a firepower buff. Their very silouette is defined by having Pointy Blasty Cannons of Cool; this should be enough.

Done right, you make jousting great again in the same breath you fix the X-wings themselves... and Wedge and Tarn remain terrifying.

Quote

Get REAL fluffy and never sacrifice your astromech, like the good-hearted rebel you are

Because as we all know, the rebel war machine is supported by the labour of regularly lobotomised slave labourers. Join IG-88 and the Droid revolution!

15 hours ago, Sasajak said:

Not a Rebel player but don't R2 Astromech and Vectored Thrusters or Engine Upgrade solves help with that?

It's more the fact that they have to take the interrogated astro to live longer or die by fire.

15 hours ago, ViscerothSWG said:

X-wings are far from first in line for yet another fix.

I agree, the two ships that needed a "fixing" are getting that in the "Guns for Hire pack".

The X-wing's laser cannons had various settings:

Single fire, where each cannon fired individually (Normal Usage good at all ranges, most accurate);
Dual fire, where two cannons in opposite positions paired up and the pairs fired alternately (Middle ground for attacking, not as accurate as single fire, but more accurate than quad fire);
Quad fire, where all four cannons (one at each foil-tip) fired together, converging on the target; (Used for Close Range since not very accurate)
Stutter fire, where many underpowered beams were fired in rapid succession (added during Yuuzhan Vong War).

You could simulate this with a dual card title:

Dual card title: Variable Laser Settings 0 pts

T-65 X-wing Only:

Primary Weapon Only:

Side 1:

Quad Fire:

Range 1 Only. If target outside of range one use primary attack value instead of Quad Fire. (AKA. Dual Fire)

Add an Attack Die to your attack. You may change 1 blank to a focus

You may flip this card after you move as a free action.

Side 2:

Single Fire:

When attacking Change 1 focus to a hit result

you may flip this card after you move as a free action

That's how I would fix the X-wing.

I disagree with the accuracy there.

If you are accurate and can keep the target in the crosshairs, regardless of range, quad is best. Most damage per hit.

If the target is elusive, regardless of range, you need single fire because you need the rapid fire as you track the target. Less damage per hit but more likely to ping the target a few times and you flail behind it.

Dual fire is just the middle ground for fire rate and damage inflicted when hit.

If you wanted to mimic all of that, you'd roll 4 dice that cant be rerolled for single fire and if it hits you only do 1 damage max.

And for quad fire you roll -1 dice, but if you hit you deal +1 crit.

I laid off my swarm of purchases because to me it's very clear what direction this game is headed. It's just not a game that, when played to it's most intense rules format, that reminds me of what I feel Star Wars is all about. I don't want to buy some whacked out, esoteric ship for a handful of cards that 'fixes' the problems, when in all likelihood even if it does, it will just lead to the next bag of problems.

When and if the design catches up with what I'd personally like, then I'll go spend again on this game. In the meantime, I've got enough of a collection and a group of friends to safely never need to buy anything x-wing again, and be happy.

The newer ships benefit from the experience FFG has of designing ships.

Look at the Skuurg. It has a T-Roll and a barrel roll on a heavy bomber. The JM5K has a white 1 turn on a large ship.

So, why doesn't the T-65 have green 2 turns, a white 1 turn, boost and barrel roll on the card? The X-Wings are pretty maneuverable, you see them do barrel rolls in ANH just as much as TIEs. They're Superiority Starfighters. They do a lot more TIE killing than shooting torps, which are specialized weapons they only ever use in all the movies to attack static bases, not other fighters, or even capital ships!

"T-65B X-Wing title, 0 pts. Rebel X-Wing only.
Your action bar gains the Boost and Barrel Roll actions.
You may treat all your 2 speed manuvers as green manuvers.
If you reveal a 2 speed turn, you may treat it as a white 1 speed turn of the same direction."

I don't even know if this would help, as there are other issues with the meta right now, but it might make the X-Wing a bit more palatable outside casual games.

On 7/18/2017 at 7:26 PM, Joe Censored said:

Maybe you missed the part where in Armada you can't have an X Wing escort your MC-80 while it regens off R2-D2.

A lot of MC-80s flying around in X-Wing, are there?

16 hours ago, Koing907 said:

The newer ships benefit from the experience FFG has of designing ships.

Look at the Skuurg. It has a T-Roll and a barrel roll on a heavy bomber. The JM5K has a white 1 turn on a large ship.

So, why doesn't the T-65 have green 2 turns, a white 1 turn, boost and barrel roll on the card? The X-Wings are pretty maneuverable, you see them do barrel rolls in ANH just as much as TIEs. They're Superiority Starfighters. They do a lot more TIE killing than shooting torps, which are specialized weapons they only ever use in all the movies to attack static bases, not other fighters, or even capital ships!

"T-65B X-Wing title, 0 pts. Rebel X-Wing only.
Your action bar gains the Boost and Barrel Roll actions.
You may treat all your 2 speed manuvers as green manuvers.
If you reveal a 2 speed turn, you may treat it as a white 1 speed turn of the same direction."

I don't even know if this would help, as there are other issues with the meta right now, but it might make the X-Wing a bit more palatable outside casual games.

A part of the problem with the T-65 is....the T-70.

I don't mind the X-wing not having speed 1 turns, because it's been a canon position for a long time that whilst X-wings are manoeuvrable, the TIE fighter is more so.

At the same time, the T-70 is pretty much as you've described. 4 T-70s with R2 Astromechs have speed 3 green straights, speed 2 green turns, 3 shields, 3 hull, integrated astromech, boost and can generally play either arc dodger or heavy fighter as required by the situation. 3 T-70s is an actual thing that genuinely does okay at competitive events, and BB-8 Intensity Poe Dameron is an arc dodging, evading, barrel rolling, talon rolling monster of an ace.

The problem is how you improve the T-65 without (a) overpowering the T-70 and (b) without turning it into a T-70. A good example of the problem is the Rookie Pilot. Because it's 21 points, you can only ever get 4 in a squad, the same as the T-70. But there's no upgrades you can really offer that matches +1 shield, boost, talon roll and speed 3 straight greens.

Personally, I'd like to see it go the other way; The X-wing is not a bad competitor to the 5-ship-in-a-list units, and currently that's a class of ship (3-6 hit points, 3 dice primary, decent dial, able to field 5 in a squad) that the rebels have no ship that occupies (the attack shuttle would if only there was a generic version), whilst both other factions have multiples:

Empire

• Alpha Squadron Pilot - Autothrusters
• Scarif Defender - Adaptive Ailerons, Lightweight Frame
• Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Unguided Rockets, Lightweight Frame

Scum

• Cartel Spacer - Heavy Scyk, Mangler Cannon
• Cartel Marauder - Vaksai, XX-23 S-Thread Tracers, Inertial Dampeners, Guidance Chips, Munitions Failsafe
• Zealous Recruit

Comparing to this list, I don't think that

• Rookie Pilot - R2 Astromech, Integrated Astromech

Looks too far out of whack. It's got the most effective hit points (joint with the bomber) but the bomber has 3 green dice (due to lightweight frame) to its 2. It's got pretty much the best green dial (joint with the Alpha Squadron Pilot and Zealous Recruit) but lacks the speed 1 turns and speed 5 straights of those ships, and the repositioning ability that everyone else on this list has (if you accept Inertial Dampeners as a one-use repositioning ability). It has Target Lock, which the imperial ships don't (well, the bomber does but can't use it on rockets, making it pretty pointless), but it doesn't have the Cartel Marauder's ability to parley one focus token into a swathe of target locks across the squad.

To achieve this, you'd need a -2 point 'shift', which is about right for the average 'fix' title, meaning that if the title grants an ability, it doesn't need to be a powerful one.

The Scurrg is stupidly manoeuvrable for a heavy bomber because it's the player character's ship in a game, and being a console game the player was expected to defeat enemy fighters by the dozen, so the Scurrg ended up as a Defender-esque god-ship which you have to wonder why neither faction brought into general service at the expense of its iconic fighter (much like most of the ships in the TIE fighter game, in fact). Like Dash Rendar in the Outrider, which is Not-Han-Solo in Not-the-Millennium-Falcon and largely better than the original. I don't like its existence, but its performance and stats are correct to what it should be (if anything it should be nastier as Havoc , for example, carries two astromechs)

Also; just to point out:

Quote

Introduced with the Force Awakens Core Set and Wave 8, the Resistance is a Rebel subfaction featured in the new Star Wars films. Although in the Star Wars universe the factions did not exist at the same time, and Resistance dials and pilot cards feature modified Rebel insignias, all Resistance ships are fully compatible with standard Rebel ships.

To translate, "Rebel Only" includes Resistance as a legal subset and is not a rules-recognised means of separating the two.

22 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

A part of the problem with the T-65 is....the T-70.

The T-70 is a good ship; it has pilots that see a lot more play than the T-65. In Fact at a local Tourument we saw "Baby Blue" X-Wing list take first place.

I think earlier in the post you had a fantastic idea and any T-65 upgrade should include this;

"X-wing Only. You may not equip this card if your action bar includes the [Boost] action icon".

That negates the whole name mess that has been created. (Unless FFG create a card that removes actions from bar in future)

Nice to see it do well. The Baby Blues is a simple list - but not an easy list to win with - and it's very impressive and satisfying to see it do well.