Played a game with the using quasars red die with strategist and in not sure I'm sold.. There are definitely some strengths... Being able to strafe the squad battle from red is really nice... And alpha striking worth six squads is great... But red die is so fickle and .5 damage on avg, same as a blue but with a lot more variance... Contrast that with double blue demo AA and I'm wondering if the quasar as a strategist platform is kinda meh... Thoughts??
Quasar II vs demo II strat platform
2 minutes ago, SkyCake said:Played a game with the using quasars red die with strategist and in not sure I'm sold.. There are definitely some strengths... Being able to strafe the squad battle from red is really nice... And alpha striking worth six squads is great... But red die is so fickle and .5 damage on avg, same as a blue but with a lot more variance... Contrast that with double blue demo AA and I'm wondering if the quasar as a strategist platform is kinda meh... Thoughts??
Vs. demo i would say the biggest strength is not having to kit demo for antisquad. Because even though I appreciate how effective it can be in that role it still feels dirty when I kit it to play squad games.
2 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:Vs. demo i would say the biggest strength is not having to kit demo for antisquad. Because even though I appreciate how effective it can be in that role it still feels dirty when I kit it to play squad games.
I feel ya... But with nerf, demo ain't the first strike weapon she used to be. Because of that I wonder if now we can think of demo playing roles other than God mode clonisher...
I refuse to partake in this conversation till the imperial bias is removed.
3 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:I refuse to partake in this conversation till the imperial bias is removed.
Please stay where you are and wait for the nearest Imperial Political Officer to collect you.
Thank you for your cooperation.
5 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:I refuse to partake in this conversation till the imperial bias is removed.
Insinuating that the correct answer is, of course, the Assault Frigate MK II A?
25 minutes ago, SkyCake said:I feel ya... But with nerf, demo ain't the first strike weapon she used to be. Because of that I wonder if now we can think of demo playing roles other than God mode clonisher...
Demo is still effective. Still plays the same and if you out activate your opponent you can still last/first them. Honestly, I didn't put ET on Demo to attack. I used ET to escape arcs and make sure I maintain mine.
I don't think Demo should carry RS on it ever. OE is a much better option, but taking a Glad II on Demo would be effective against squads and ships. I played a tournament on Saturday where I wish I had a Glad II, and I almost brought one for Demo. I ended up playing 3 games against 6/6/8 squads, fighting them with Valen/Ciena.
If you're going to take the strongest anti-ship title in the game and use it to attack squads, well, you must be desperate to kill squads. And when you run into a low/no squad list, that Demo is a liability.
Just use a raider 2 or regular Glad 2.
2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:Demo is still effective. Still plays the same and if you out activate your opponent you can still last/first them. Honestly, I didn't put ET on Demo to attack. I used ET to escape arcs and make sure I maintain mine.
I don't think Demo should carry RS on it ever. OE is a much better option, but taking a Glad II on Demo would be effective against squads and ships. I played a tournament on Saturday where I wish I had a Glad II, and I almost brought one for Demo. I ended up playing 3 games against 6/6/8 squads, fighting them with Valen/Ciena.
If you're going to take the strongest anti-ship title in the game and use it to attack squads, well, you must be desperate to kill squads. And when you run into a low/no squad list, that Demo is a liability.
I didn't take ET often also. Demo is still really good. Yeah. It was really sad to see it jerry-rigged to attack squads (which it does pretty well at).
The good thing is the QF2 can now let Demo actually do its job. And that still the GSD1 and the gSD2 are GOOD. the GSD2 with the 2 blue AA and demo is still frightful and combos well with Jonus nowadays.
This was good design. Took a few waves to make valid, but really. I'm happy with the Gladiators. Times have changed, but both styles are very useful nowadays.
I can't say the same about the AFs. Both A and B have not aged well. Ackbar is largely used on MC80H and GH is the only other competitive use.
10 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:Demo is still effective. Still plays the same and if you out activate your opponent you can still last/first them. Honestly, I didn't put ET on Demo to attack. I used ET to escape arcs and make sure I maintain mine.
I don't think Demo should carry RS on it ever. OE is a much better option, but taking a Glad II on Demo would be effective against squads and ships. I played a tournament on Saturday where I wish I had a Glad II, and I almost brought one for Demo. I ended up playing 3 games against 6/6/8 squads, fighting them with Valen/Ciena.
If you're going to take the strongest anti-ship title in the game and use it to attack squads, well, you must be desperate to kill squads. And when you run into a low/no squad list, that Demo is a liability.
I suspect people talking about putting Ruthless strategists on the Demolisher are thinking of versatility- They'll still attack ships, but the extra flexibility will be handy for attacking targets of opportunity. However, I think Agent Kallus+Ordnance Experts on the Gladiator II is a better choice (combine with Jonus for reliable accuracy results vs. Ships from those red dice) if you want to make the demolisher a multi-purpose ship- You only invest three points into dedicated anti-squadron gear, but 2 blue dice+1 re-rollable black dice vs. Aces, all at medium range, is a pretty scary amount of flak.
Edited by Squark8 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:I can't say the same about the AFs. Both A and B have not aged well. Ackbar is largely used on MC80H and GH is the only other competitive use.
Its ironic but the same qualities that made the AFMK2 so strong in early waves are whats killing it now. It used to be a strong option as a gunship and as a carrier. It did everything as well as anything.
Now, there are better gunships. There are better carrier options. It does nothing particularly well compared to more specialized choices. The only thing it does that you cant find somewhere else is carry the Gallant Haven title.
Not to say that they cant be used, just that its rare that I find them to be the best choice.
30 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:
And when you run into a low/no squad list, that Demo is a liability.
If demo is a liability against low/no squads list then a quasar would be an unmitigated disaster. Its essentially a 76 point flotilla with 10 points of rt and flight controllers wasted, with little to no pewpew. Would much rather have the demo in that case even without oe/ordnance
6 minutes ago, SkyCake said:If demo is a liability against low/no squads list then a quasar would be an unmitigated disaster. Its essentially a 76 point flotilla with 10 points of rt and flight controllers wasted, with little to no pewpew. Would much rather have the demo in that case even without oe/ordnance
The difference is the Quasar is pushing at least 4 squads. Demo could push up to 3.
I have yet to see someone who invests heavily into squads be unhappy when they run into the list with no squads, even if you have a bunch of Tie aces.
If you run Demo on a Glad II with RS, Kallus, and FT and you don't run into a bunch of squads, you're ******. Even if you don't put Kallus or FT on it, your black dice are much less effective. Where as taking a Quasar with red dice, FC and RS, and a bunch of squads, you can push those squads and attack a ship and then the Quasar can attack.
If you're going to try this, you will want to run Screed so you can always have the crit for Demo.
41 minutes ago, Squark said:I suspect people talking about putting Ruthless strategists on the Demolisher are thinking of versatility- They'll still attack ships, but the extra flexibility will be handy for attacking targets of opportunity. However, I think Agent Kallus+Ordnance Experts on the Gladiator II is a better choice (combine with Jonus for reliable accuracy results vs. Ships from those red dice) if you want to make the demolisher a multi-purpose ship- You only invest three points into dedicated anti-squadron gear, but 2 blue dice+1 re-rollable black dice vs. Aces, all at medium range, is a pretty scary amount of flak.
I really like this build for the Glad II. I am always debating on an officer slot take, cause Intel officer has become less attractive to me. Hell though, take Kallus, have Jonus in your squads, and you could have a grand old time.
42 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:Its ironic but the same qualities that made the AFMK2 so strong in early waves are whats killing it now. It used to be a strong option as a gunship and as a carrier. It did everything as well as anything.
Now, there are better gunships. There are better carrier options. It does nothing particularly well compared to more specialized choices. The only thing it does that you cant find somewhere else is carry the Gallant Haven title.
Not to say that they cant be used, just that its rare that I find them to be the best choice.
The 4 dice out the sides is the biggest turn off for me. I like the shields and defense tokens and upgrade slots, but I find it hard to justify 72 points for 6 dice on a double arc. Which means I run it as GH and take a bunch of squads.
It's the same reason I don't like the MC80H. Lot of upgrade slots but not a ton of dice.
20 minutes ago, SkyCake said:If demo is a liability against low/no squads list then a quasar would be an unmitigated disaster. Its essentially a 76 point flotilla with 10 points of rt and flight controllers wasted, with little to no pewpew. Would much rather have the demo in that case even without oe/ordnance
Opportunity cost is the real issue here. The reliability ordnance experts gives the demolisher is incredibly valuable. The Quasar, on the other hand, is okay with not getting much mileage out of its anti-squadron upgrades in this situation, because the opponent has already handed that player the squadron game on a silver platter, so the Quasar is free to command its squadrons to attack ships (And the opponent is definitely going to feel some pain from 4 Tie Bombers firing on his ships or a spent brace+shields from 4 TIE/LNs)
1 hour ago, Squark said:Opportunity cost is the real issue here. The reliability ordnance experts gives the demolisher is incredibly valuable. The Quasar, on the other hand, is okay with not getting much mileage out of its anti-squadron upgrades in this situation, because the opponent has already handed that player the squadron game on a silver platter, so the Quasar is free to command its squadrons to attack ships (And the opponent is definitely going to feel some pain from 4 Tie Bombers firing on his ships or a spent brace+shields from 4 TIE/LNs)
This supposes our list has no other way to push our squads, usually we have an ISD or some flotilla to do the lifting. And demo can push squads nicely as well, though not with the large alpha of a quasar...
Edited by SkyCakeI really don't think you want to damage the anti ship capacity of Demo glad 2 by sticking strategist on it. It's a great anti fighter platform with just its raw blue dice, if you really must up the AA add Kallus as he beefs up the anti fighter without removing OE which is a must for this ship. Pesonally I prefer to add ECM or blast doors over Kallus.
I love this ship as it's just about the most adaptable sub 100 point platform in the game.
I have an idea. Take two gladiators.
I have used two Gladiator II as basic escort ships with just Flight Commander and Veteran Gunners, sometimes with Fighter Coordination teams as well. This ship works really well as a multi-purpose platform.