What use is there for this ship??

For 5 points (41pts) it gets blue dice around (2 reds front), and blue AA. 1 die Blue AA isn't that appealing, even in numbers. Doesn't inc sq: so BT isn't any better.

Externals are very good on the cheaper Torpedo variant.

What Turbos are even worth putting on this? For a bit I was thinking of trying Enhanced Armament + Gunnery Team + Intel Officer + Ackbar for some mean GT side shots... but at range, Cr90s are better defense.

I'm guessing we might see some new and niche turbos for this ship. Something like, 3pts, add a blue die to your side arcs, if you only have 2 or less die in your side arcs.

Sato? Even then, seems like you'd want to proc black APTs.

2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

3pts, add a blue die to your side arcs

for 5 and limited speed you can have it on all arcs at long distance

1 minute ago, Visovics said:

for 5 and limited speed you can have it on all arcs at long distance

'cept in the instance we're talking about - the Scout Hammerhead - doesn't have any shots to long range on its side arcs unless you're taking Enhanced Armament... But of course, you're not taking Quad Battery Turrets then.

I use it as a backup for the other 2 torps I bring with it. If I'm trying to get rerolls, it's the first tforgana title I tap. Ill usually also throw a boarding team on it to finish off whatever Ive hot already. If I'm taking damage, TFAntilles here first before the Shields to Max Pelta triggers for it later. It sets up it's murderous buddies.

Only thing I add to it beyond a title and maybe boarding engineers is maybe QBT. That's all you really want/need on it.

4 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

What Turbos are even worth putting on this? For a bit I was thinking of trying Enhanced Armament + Gunnery Team + Intel Officer + Ackbar for some mean GT side shots... but at range, Cr90s are better defense.

Spinal + Gunnery Team makes it a meaner Salvation with a wider arc for a similar price, in terms of total damage (limited by halving when you don't have two targets, obviously).

Cheap frame for H9s in a Close-Range Intel Scan list?

I think you could justify TRCs in some situations, although that doesn't address why you wouldn't want to shell out the change to upgrade to a CR90 instead.

I'm trying, here.

I'll be honest, I'm not putting a Turbo on them.

But I am considering Ruthless + TF:O

Since you're allowed to attack Squadrons while your TFO is tapped.

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Since you're allowed to attack Squadrons while your TFO is tapped.

Is that a thing? Amazing!

6 minutes ago, Visovics said:

Is that a thing? Amazing!

1) Its "While Attacking" - so if you were pretty desperate, you could use Task Force: Organa to reroll a die on an Anti-Squadron Attack... But since those are basically going to be a single die (double with, say, ConFire), you're generally wasting the Reroll, unless it REALLY needs to die.

(This has minor synergy with DTT, when you *really* want to fish for that Red Double)

2) While the card is exhausted, you cannot attack ships.

Can totally attack squadrons.

Mostly, I see that the drawback of most Imperial Squadrons these days is that they either have tiny amounts of Hull, or the have just enough hull to survive a double strike...

Ruthless Strategists is perfect for getting that last damage on a Scatter Ace, even if their scatter is still there...

28 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I'll be honest, I'm not putting a Turbo on them.

But I am considering Ruthless + TF:O

Since you're allowed to attack Squadrons while your TFO is tapped.

I cant believe I didnt notice. I have had dreams about ruthless strategust MC30s.

I am not joking. Too many times.

I'm thinking about using them with Sato, and I think the Scout will be a better choice than the Torp. How often will you be able to trigger a long range APT? How do you get any rerolls? TFO will limit you, and OE is another 4 points. And once you get that crit, does the opponent have an Evade? Most ships do, so you will only be effective against ISD, MC80s, Vic, Interdictor, and the Quasar. So you spend 9 points to get your 2 black die at long range to a crit before it gets cancelled. Now, if you go up against any of the ships named, you're very happy. The APT trick is very appealing, don't get me wrong, but it' a lot of points dedicated into a single ship with 1 black at long range, 2 with CF.

In my experience with Sato90s, they are quite effective on a double arc. The lack of reroll hurts, but it's 44 points for 4 black dice at long. Maybe Sato90s will be straight up better than the Scout, but I might want to run RS to help deal with bombers.

That's my take on it. No idea if it will be as effective as I want because I still need to get the squads in position.

36 minutes ago, svelok said:

Spinal + Gunnery Team makes it a meaner Salvation

You take that back or we're gonna have words.

54 minutes ago, geek19 said:

I use it as a backup for the other 2 torps I bring with it. If I'm trying to get rerolls, it's the first tforgana title I tap. Ill usually also throw a boarding team on it to finish off whatever Ive hot already. If I'm taking damage, TFAntilles here first before the Shields to Max Pelta triggers for it later. It sets up it's murderous buddies.

Only thing I add to it beyond a title and maybe boarding engineers is maybe QBT. That's all you really want/need on it.

This, 100%.

Part of the strategy of the game is getting all of your ships doing damage at once, and it is often better if you can chain them in and develop a rhythm and sequence of activation for them. While you have a Torpedo variant that is already up at close range, you actually get a decent shot off of this variant behind it. It then pulls up and repeats the process, basically doing consistent damage over a couple of turns rather than the burst damage all at once of the Torpedo variant.

46 minutes ago, svelok said:

Cheap frame for H9s in a Close-Range Intel Scan list?

This for sure.

Buddy and I have been discussing 4x HH's w/ TFA, GT, QBT with Leia. I believe we had points for a Raymus & StM Pelta as well. Tough to kill and flown slowly could get you a big and very deadly overlapping field of fire.

53 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

You take that back or we're gonna have words.

Mathematically speaking, 7 red dice (HH front + spinals + GT + CF) beats 4 red dice with double damage crits (Neb front + CF) , at about the same price.

That assumes you have two targets to shoot at, of course, but I mentioned that.

Australia might beat the laws of math, but Salvation doesn't!

32 minutes ago, svelok said:

Australia might beat the laws of math, but Salvation doesn't!

'cept when Sato's involved.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

How often will you be able to trigger a long range APT? How do you get any rerolls? TFO will limit you, and OE is another 4 points. And once you get that crit, does the opponent have an Evade? Most ships do, so you will only be effective against ISD, MC80s, Vic, Interdictor, and the Quasar.

Are you worried you might not face Avenger very often?

Im am working on a CC Sato list with 2 Scout HHs with Slaved Turrets combined with a Shout Admo with APTs.. To soften up the target at long range before Admo goes in close with (hopefully) 5 blacks from the side..

Speaking of salvation: It works with blue dice too: Try Salvation + QBT. going slow. =). Blue dice have 2 crits also. CF into another blue for
3red 2blue.

And so far, the winner for Turbo use is Spinal GT haha. That's just funny.

I still don't see much good use besides that though, that wouldn't be better served by the 5pt cheaper + 3pts Ex Racks. Does fly slightly differently, but not that big of a deal.

1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

Are you worried you might not face Avenger very often?

Eh not really. If it happens, that sucks, but why build a list to counter Avenger when 1 Evade counters my list? Swarms are still common, and since people are using the HH, well, that's another Evade ship. Dealing with Avenger is more of killing the squads if Sloane is there, which a Scout HH with RS can do reliably, and then use Sato on the dice.

2 hours ago, svelok said:

Mathematically speaking, 7 red dice (HH front + spinals + GT + CF) beats 4 red dice with double damage crits (Neb front + CF) , at about the same price.

That assumes you have two targets to shoot at, of course, but I mentioned that.

Australia might beat the laws of math, but Salvation doesn't!

The quality of Salvation's attack (particularly with Turbolaser Reroutes + Intel Officer) is often so much better, though. I've run Gunnery Team gunlines with other ships (often VSDs) and it's okay but it's not great at focusing firing specific ships down and it can struggle when your enemy doesn't allow you to get several juicy targets in the front arc. Idunno, I'm still quite skeptical. Salvation just needs anything in its front arc and it's ready to make some people cry. The only ships I can think of that don't mind Salvation dropping bombs on them from downtown are double-brace ships, like opposing Nebulon-Bs and LMC80s.

I guess we'll see, though. I want to see the Gunnery Team Spinal Hammerheads on the table, maybe I'm wrong. For now I'm pretty skeptical though.

I'm tinkering with the idea of running a group of 3 (2 scouts, one torp) the torp has racks and boarding engineers, the scouts have slaved turrets and disposable capacitors all have TFO. They'll all slow roll, the first scout will tap the torp for re-rolls the second will tap the first (after it's already shot) that's 3 red and 2 blue with cf ( or 4 and 1) with 3 re-rolls at long range. The torp will take over as they close on the target.

1 hour ago, Snipafist said:

Idunno, I'm still quite skeptical. Salvation just needs anything in its front arc and it's ready to make some people cry. The only ships I can think of that don't mind Salvation dropping bombs on them from downtown are double-brace ships, like opposing Nebulon-Bs and LMC80s.

I guess we'll see, though. I want to see the Gunnery Team Spinal Hammerheads on the table, maybe I'm wrong. For now I'm pretty skeptical though.

I never meant to imply it was practically better than Salvation.

Just mathematically better in an ideal situation, as a response to possible uses for the ship.

Salvation's comparative advantage is, as you point out, that it's average case scenario is so much stronger, even if it loses out to the Spinal + GT Hammerhead in a comparison of best case scenarios.

1 minute ago, svelok said:

I never meant to imply it was practically better than Salvation.

Just mathematically better in an ideal situation, as a response to possible uses for the ship.

Salvation's comparative advantage is, as you point out, that it's average case scenario is so much stronger, even if it loses out to the Spinal + GT Hammerhead in a comparison of best case scenarios.

That's fair and I can't really dispute that.

I played triple gunner team/spinal scouts with TF:A and a shields to max Pelta and the damage output just wasn't that scary being so spread out. I was taking lots of hits, but since it was one here, one there, one there i was able to focus the hammerheads down quickly without taking heavy losses.