For the record, I'm on your side. Just trying to make sure the other side argument was made clear.

There is no established timing window that fits within Intensity. We have one for Kanan (very clear) and PtL (mostly clear, it's the closest thing to an argument that I can see, but I don't support it).

Moving past that, double flipping the card is another example of something that I don't think works, and is easier to paint a big question mark on, because FFG has left things open again.

Repeatedly talking about Intensity's timing window (or lack there of) isn't going to solve anything, as that line was pretty clearly drawn for both sides of the argument.

4 hours ago, Icelom said:

What I am essentially arguing is the "if you do, flip this card" is part of a assigning the focus token, not after assigning the focus token because it never states it happens after.

There no such thing as being 'part of' in the way you frame it. Simple read the ability in order:

After you perform a boost or barrel roll action, you may assign 1 focus or evade token to your ship. [Trigger Jake here] If you do, flip this card.

You stop resolving the ability while you resolve the triggered interrupt. If you resolve the flip, you have already passed the legal window to use Jake's ability. You would be cheating if you went back.

30 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

There no such thing as being 'part of' in the way you frame it. Simple read the ability in order:

After you perform a boost or barrel roll action, you may assign 1 focus or evade token to your ship. [Trigger Jake here] If you do, flip this card.

You stop resolving the ability while you resolve the triggered interrupt. If you resolve the flip, you have already passed the legal window to use Jake's ability. You would be cheating if you went back.

I think your solution is right, but the reasons are not.
"If you do" is not the same as "then", for the purpose of splitting effects and allowing nesting. It's more like a trigger for an "after" effect, I think. If it's like that, Jake's ability and flipping the card would be simultaneous, so you may choose the order in which they resolve.

I know they end up being the same, but i think the difference is worth noting.

10 hours ago, InquisitorM said:

There no such thing as being 'part of' in the way you frame it. Simple read the ability in order:

After you perform a boost or barrel roll action, you may assign 1 focus or evade token to your ship. [Trigger Jake here] If you do, flip this card.

You stop resolving the ability while you resolve the triggered interrupt. If you resolve the flip, you have already passed the legal window to use Jake's ability. You would be cheating if you went back.

Just because you put in [trigger jake here] does not make it work like that. i could easily just do:

After you perform a boost or barrel roll action, you may assign 1 focus or evade token to your ship. If you do, flip this card [Trigger Jake here].

I disagree with you. I think as soon as you assign the focus you have to flip the card "if you do, flip this card" reads that way to me. Add on the fact its worded completely different then the other abilities it lends me to believe that you cant do other stuff before flipping the card.

Basically InquisitorM we are not going to agree on this one.

On 7/17/2017 at 4:49 PM, Mace Windu said:

... you certainly get 2 flip triggers but the only question is does the second flip trigger work when intensity is on the exhausted side.

Intensity is a Dual Upgrade card. Going by the Dual Upgrade card rules (which say "Only the faceup side of a Dual Upgrade card is active"), once the card is flipped to the exhausted side, only the rules on that side apply. So there is no opportunity during the Activation Phase to flip the card back over, as the card specifies both the timing window of the end of the Combat phase, as well as the cost that needs to be paid.

If someone need further arguments that only the faceup side is relevant, just look at Pivot Wing. You don't get both +1 agility and the ability to rotate your ship 180° at the same time. You get one or the other and have to pay the cost to flip it in the proper timing window. Similarly, even though there is no mechanism in the game to flip it, Adaptability does not give you both a +1 and a -1 pilot skill value at the same time. Only the faceup side is considered.

1 hour ago, Nspace said:

Intensity is a Dual Upgrade card. Going by the Dual Upgrade card rules (which say "Only the faceup side of a Dual Upgrade card is active"), once the card is flipped to the exhausted side, only the rules on that side apply. So there is no opportunity during the Activation Phase to flip the card back over, as the card specifies both the timing window of the end of the Combat phase, as well as the cost that needs to be paid.

If someone need further arguments that only the faceup side is relevant, just look at Pivot Wing. You don't get both +1 agility and the ability to rotate your ship 180° at the same time. You get one or the other and have to pay the cost to flip it in the proper timing window. Similarly, even though there is no mechanism in the game to flip it, Adaptability does not give you both a +1 and a -1 pilot skill value at the same time. Only the faceup side is considered.

You are forgetting about the multiple triggered and nested actions within the first intensity trigger though. Assuming the that Jake will trigger before the flip part of the ability resolves.

The triggered events look like this:

Jake takes a focus action, triggering his ability

Jakes ability resolves and performs a boost, triggering Intensity

The first part of intensity resolves assigning Jake a focus token, once the token is assigned Jake's ability triggers and becomes a nested action within the first intensity trigger before the flip card part of intensity resolves, so intensity is still unflipped.

Jakes ability resolves and he now gets to do a barrel roll, triggering intensity again (because its still face up and hasn't flipped yet), remembering that the first intensity hasn’t fully resolved yet as we have multiple nested triggers resolving.

So the second intensity trigger resolves and Jake gets an evade token. At this point the second intensity finishes resolving and finally flips the card.

At this point the first intensity ability finally tries to finish resolving, the question is does the flip part of the ability still work if intensity is already flipped over. We know that its still the same object but is flipped, and the only question is will it flip back or does the remaining flip ability not resolve because intensity (exhausted) can only be flipped by its own unique trigger.

So the only real question is after effectively performing 5 actions and not being stressed, with intensity end up on its starting face or not because the rest is pretty much guaranteed.

To counter Iceloms argument that the flip and focus happen at the same time, the text really can't be read that way. The flip part of the ability is a may trigger and is predicated on actually receiving the token. By definition the flip resolution cannot start until the token has been placed, and Jakes ability will interrupt to start he chain of nested actions.

The "if you do" is simply referencing the fact that intensity is an optional ability. if for some reason intensity was a mandatory effect it would be worded "Then flip this card" and no one would be arguing because its a check effect, i.e. do X, then if you did X, do Y.

My opinion is that it is impossible to interrupt the Intensity card with another effect if not instructed. An argument on nesting actions is about Actions, not effects and abilities. Kanan and ID are effects and abilities, so there was the need to explain how these things work with each other. There is yet no mention about Jake's ability having any power to interrupt Intensity effect. These two (Jake Farrel and Intensity) are not actions, cannot be nested like those unless specified otherwise. The Intensity card contains instruction and effect: "After you perform a boost or barrel roll action, you may assign 1 focus or evade token to your ship" - this is instruction. "If you do, flip this card." - this is the effect, and You read this effect as: "If you do assign 1 focus or evade token to your ship After you perform a boost or barrel roll action, flip this card."

There's nothing special about action nesting versus effect nesting. The only reason we needed additional guidance about Kanan combos was to establish whether PTL+EI works because it has to be resolved in the right order or because you choose to resolve it in the right order. (It has to, btw.)

Getting specific guidance on each and every instance of an interaction is not how the rules of this game generally work. We get one answer about one interaction and it's up to us to recognize that it's a precedent.

On this topic's question:

The idea of nesting effects between Intensity's token assignment and its flip seems unlikely to be intended, but then why didn't they word it "you may flip this card to assign..."? As written, I think the nesting is defensible.

As for whether you can resolve the second flip, I think that's murkier. Does a flip effect generated by the "Intensity" side care if you try to resolve it on the "Intensity (Exhausted)" side? Or does it remember what side it was trying to flip to in the first place and just do that again? We probably need a FAQ for this.

Thank Davies it doesn't say "Then flip this card"