On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 6:11 PM, a1bert said:

1+11 Story missions, 4 side missions.

So about 16 total missions in the base expansion (I would imagine three more if you count Darth Maul, the Emperor, and Asoka). Is that right?

Yes. 16 missions in HotE, one in each figure expansion.

I have "Heart of the Empire" and I'm looking forward to running my players through it, when we wrap up the core campaign. The mission list is shorter, as compared to the core campaign, but there are different 'branches' that the campaign can take. The replay value on HotE is pretty solid. Do the players focus on Branch A or Branch B? If the Imperial player wins, does he go after Branch A, B, or C? So the campaign has a 'choose your own adventure' feel to it. Couple that with the new adversaries, the new Heroes, the new power token system, and HotE is well worth the investment.

1 minute ago, LugWrench said:

I have "Heart of the Empire" and I'm looking forward to running my players through it, when we wrap up the core campaign. The mission list is shorter, as compared to the core campaign, but there are different 'branches' that the campaign can take. The replay value on HotE is pretty solid. Do the players focus on Branch A or Branch B? If the Imperial player wins, does he go after Branch A, B, or C? So the campaign has a 'choose your own adventure' feel to it. Couple that with the new adversaries, the new Heroes, the new power token system, and HotE is well worth the investment.

Yeah, I like the design philosophy a lot.

I think side missions were originally the first attempt at replayability, but while side missions are incredibly cool, they obviously do little to advance the story.

So, Hoth sought to change that by adding Threat missions- side missions that did sort of tie in to the main story. Only problem was, there were only four of them, so it actually hurt replayability.

With HotE, you still have side missions, but less of them. Meanwhile...

Well, in HotE, the players can go one of two ways, as I mentioned. The Imperial player gets a branch thats unique to him/her, should the Imperials win. So the players can really find the story line out of their hands, should they lose too much/too often. I don't want to go into too much detail, for those that don't have the game....don't want to wreck it. But suffice it to say, if the Rebels have the worst luck in the world, the Imperial player gets to run them through some rough missions.

There are 2 narrative story chains, and then in each story slot a mission that is more independent. The winner of a story mission gets to choose the next mission between 2 choices and will typically be between the next mission in the chain or the independent mission (And the independent missions lead back to one of the chains).

Now, sticking to a single chain will give you a rich narrative but you aren't restricted to it.

I just have the finale left and the Narrative is definitely the biggest highlight of this campaign, you can feel the story in the gameplay even if you havent read the text.

And the HotE rules say that the imperial player should not read ahead...

4 hours ago, a1bert said:

And the HotE rules say that the imperial player should not read ahead...

I assume you have already violated that rule, yes?

5 hours ago, Pollux85 said:

I assume you have already violated that rule, yes?

Technically not. I have played some of the missions, and I have entered the maps to the Vassal IA Campaign module (save file), but have not read through their full flavor text nor where the imperial (or rebel) choices lead.

If I were (and I very well might), I would still pick the "best" choice for the current story.

17 hours ago, a1bert said:

And the HotE rules say that the imperial player should not read ahead...

Where does it say that anyways?

During the Heart of the Empire campaign, the Imperial player
may be given the option to make narrative choices as the result of
mission rewards. For that reason, in the mission guide portion of
this rulebook, the Imperial player is not allowed to read beyond
the story mission whose card is currently in play as the active
mission.

Well I totally broke that, too. Whoops, was just excited to start digging into the new missions.

Anyway, HotE looks fantastic and I'd encourage all veteran players to pick it up, but I would absolutely not recommend it for anyone's first campaign. I don't think it's too spoiler to simply say that some of these missions tend to be a lot more complex that what we've seen in the past.

On 10/17/2017 at 5:38 PM, subtrendy2 said:

Yeah, I like the design philosophy a lot.

I think side missions were originally the first attempt at replayability, but while side missions are incredibly cool, they obviously do little to advance the story.

So, Hoth sought to change that by adding Threat missions- side missions that did sort of tie in to the main story. Only problem was, there were only four of them, so it actually hurt replayability.

With HotE, you still have side missions, but less of them. Meanwhile...

A lot of story missions grant rewards to the winner

I'd call that the best of both worlds.

One issue I have seen with side missions is that my group favors the potential reward over the fun experience of trying a new mission. So when building the deck and then ultimately choosing the mission - they seem to want to pick the same cards that they feel like is “worth it”, vs “let’s try this mission even though the reward is blah”.

We are almost done the Hoth Campaign and the threat missions were kind of nice in that we got to play 2 totally new ones. But, I could see how going through it again might feel a little stale.

However, so much changes when replaying a mission that I feel like it’s still a lot of fun. For example, my wife has only played Jyn (3 campaigns), so we have done High Moon a few times. This time I had the Bantha, so I used him as a meat shield and it totally changed the mission (I won this time and denied that Rebel Scum, errr my wife, Peacemaker- woohoo!!).

15 minutes ago, totalnoob said:

One issue I have seen with side missions is that my group favors the potential reward over the fun experience of trying a new mission. So when building the deck and then ultimately choosing the mission - they seem to want to pick the same cards that they feel like is “worth it”, vs “let’s try this mission even though the reward is blah”.

We are almost done the Hoth Campaign and the threat missions were kind of nice in that we got to play 2 totally new ones. But, I could see how going through it again might feel a little stale.

However, so much changes when replaying a mission that I feel like it’s still a lot of fun. For example, my wife has only played Jyn (3 campaigns), so we have done High Moon a few times. This time I had the Bantha, so I used him as a meat shield and it totally changed the mission (I won this time and denied that Rebel Scum, errr my wife, Peacemaker- woohoo!!).

Yeah, that can be a pretty big issue. Generally my Rebels like to try new heroes, so we usually get new Red missions. Even with the campaign we're starting this week, my Rebels initially wanted Diala and Fenn to be part of the group (both having been used before) but I encouraged them to look at similar heroes in Shyla and Drokatta. I think they're pretty happy with those (maybe even more so than their original ideas, so we've got a totally new group for this campaign again (outside of Vinto, but he's played by a new player and we've never tried Vinto's side mission anyway).

For grey, I usually take out missions we've already played before shuffling for the Grey deck.

Green is usually the biggest issue. R2/3P0 and Leia are almost always go-tos for my group. Luckily, we've only even had each of their missions crop up once, so we haven't replayed them yet. They are in our deck again for this new campaign, but they're also going to try for "new" allies in Ahsoka and the Wookie Warriors. So, out of everything, there are at least only 2 max missions that we've already played.

Hello again, friends!

We're almost through Return to Hoth (a few more missions to go), and I'm thinking of a new expansion. Ultimately my buddy wants to go half in for Heart of the Empire, which will more than likely happen, but I am curious if there was a mini-campaign (Twin Shadows, Bespin Gambit, and Tyrants of Lothal) that anyone would recommend. I love the long-form storytelling of the bigger campaigns, but it's a time commitment and it makes things more challenging when gathering players. They seem to have their own unique aspects upon reading the preview articles, but what would you vouch for and why?

Heart of the Empire is 8 missions, there is a lot of choice between missions, so the story isn't quite as tight as in minicampaigns. Fun and varied missions - a little on the easy side for experienced rebel players. (Played a lot of the missions with a group, and one full campaign in Play By Forum. Will play again.)

Tyrants of Lothal is 4 to 7 missions - extended by missions from the figure packs, and the Epilogues try to keep the story going. (Haven't played a full campaign yet, so no idea of the general difficulty level.)

The Bespin Gambit is 4 to 5 missions - extended by the mission in the ISB Infiltrators pack. Missions generally favor the rebels - except when not. An interior campaign, so tight spaces, close combat, so positioning matters a lot, accuracy less so. (Played twice in PBF extended to 7 missions.)

Twin Shadows is 4 missions (or 5 missions if you add an intro of your choice). A harder one for the rebels, but also good missions and nice imperial groups. (Played twice - once with a group and one PBF.)

Jabba's Realm is a full-length campaign of 11 missions, but the Legends of the Alliance app now contains a Jabba's Realm app campaign of 5 missions (of 8 available), which I can wholeheartedly recommend playing. The good thing is that it's as good or even better for solo play, and it's very replayable. Also, the more expansions you have the better. (Played a lot of the missions with group and solo, a 1vs4 campaign once, the app campaign 4 times.)

Heart of the Empire would probably be the best medium-length 1vs4 campaign for 5 players, but Jabba's Realm would give you a very good app-play option for 1-4 players, and after you have gotten other expansions a great replay option.

21 hours ago, a1bert said:

Heart of the Empire is 8 missions, there is a lot of choice between missions, so the story isn't quite as tight as in minicampaigns. Fun and varied missions - a little on the easy side for experienced rebel players. (Played a lot of the missions with a group, and one full campaign in Play By Forum. Will play again.)

Tyrants of Lothal is 4 to 7 missions - extended by missions from the figure packs, and the Epilogues try to keep the story going. (Haven't played a full campaign yet, so no idea of the general difficulty level.)

The Bespin Gambit is 4 to 5 missions - extended by the mission in the ISB Infiltrators pack. Missions generally favor the rebels - except when not. An interior campaign, so tight spaces, close combat, so positioning matters a lot, accuracy less so. (Played twice in PBF extended to 7 missions.)

Twin Shadows is 4 missions (or 5 missions if you add an intro of your choice). A harder one for the rebels, but also good missions and nice imperial groups. (Played twice - once with a group and one PBF.)

Jabba's Realm is a full-length campaign of 11 missions, but the Legends of the Alliance app now contains a Jabba's Realm app campaign of 5 missions (of 8 available), which I can wholeheartedly recommend playing. The good thing is that it's as good or even better for solo play, and it's very replayable. Also, the more expansions you have the better. (Played a lot of the missions with group and solo, a 1vs4 campaign once, the app campaign 4 times.)

---

Heart of the Empire would probably be the best medium-length 1vs4 campaign for 5 players, but Jabba's Realm would give you a very good app-play option for 1-4 players, and after you have gotten other expansions a great replay option.

Thanks, @a1bert ! That was incredibly detailed account, and it's allowed for me to be a lot more informed in what I should purchase. Just by what you described, I think my best bet is going to be Heart of the Empire, just that it seems to have the most variance, while still being relatively tight when compared to other campaigns. For a true mini-campaign, I think the Bespin Gambit would offer some nice variance. Jabba's Ream is very enticing, although I have only given the App a single play-through at this point.

My biggest hurdle right now is that the Imperial player for the next campaign is going to be my friend, who is dead-set on using Subversive Tactics, which I am trying to direct him away from. Our last mission was Binary Revolution (IG-88's Agenda Mission), which I won as the Imperial player by staying ahead of the Rebels and by keeping the IG's protected (Technical Support is a beautiful class card!) until the end of Round 6. My friend did not take kindly to that at all, visibly pouting and enraged that he lost to the clock (he's a sore loser/fatalist). It's puzzling to me, because Subversive Tactics just further compounds things, and I sincerely doubt that any of the other players are going to have any fun if he picks that. Reading the Imperial Classes in Heart of the Empire, perhaps those will be more thematically alluring to him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On 8/25/2018 at 10:20 AM, Kunitzu San said:

Thanks, @a1bert ! That was incredibly detailed account, and it's allowed for me to be a lot more informed in what I should purchase. Just by what you described, I think my best bet is going to be Heart of the Empire, just that it seems to have the most variance, while still being relatively tight when compared to other campaigns. For a true mini-campaign, I think the Bespin Gambit would offer some nice variance. Jabba's Ream is very enticing, although I have only given the App a single play-through at this point.

My biggest hurdle right now is that the Imperial player for the next campaign is going to be my friend, who is dead-set on using Subversive Tactics, which I am trying to direct him away from. Our last mission was Binary Revolution (IG-88's Agenda Mission), which I won as the Imperial player by staying ahead of the Rebels and by keeping the IG's protected (Technical Support is a beautiful class card!) until the end of Round 6. My friend did not take kindly to that at all, visibly pouting and enraged that he lost to the clock (he's a sore loser/fatalist). It's puzzling to me, because Subversive Tactics just further compounds things, and I sincerely doubt that any of the other players are going to have any fun if he picks that. Reading the Imperial Classes in Heart of the Empire, perhaps those will be more thematically alluring to him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Subversive Tactics is just an annoying deck, and is not too terribly bad once you know how to play around it. I think most of the bad name came from playing it against new players because they don't really know "how to play around it"

For example if I was the Rebel playing as Diala, when faced with a decision of which 2xp to buy (Battle Meditation vs. Defensive Stance), normally I might lean towards DS because I get a free focus everytime I do Foresight. But against SubTac I know I won't be triggering Foresight often, if at all so I'd lean more towards BM. If you're a new player and aren't fully aware how SubTac works you might take DS and played right into SubTac's trap

Diala's force throw is an amazing card too, even with SubTac and is usually one of the 1st card that I buy, but against SubTac I will always prioritize passive abilities than those special abilities that costs strain, all else being equal. It's just very hard for the new players to grasp the full extent on how to play around the strain

Re: Subversive tactics, there are also a few items out there now (particularly the bacta pump) that help the rebels to minimize their strain, and some of the newer heroes require very little strain to play. It's not as bad as it once was - but arguably could still be considered "un-fun" by some.

13 hours ago, ricope said:

Subversive Tactics is just an annoying deck, and is not too terribly bad once you know how to play around it. I think most of the bad name came from playing it against new players because they don't really know "how to play around it"

This is very true. I've said before MM is straight forward, TS is difficult for a new IP to figure out how to play, and ST is difficult for new Rebels to figure out how to play around.

I would add though, that it does reduce the fun for experienced players as well because it forces them to play characters a certain way (except perhaps the strain-light characters as @ManateeX mentioned).

On 8/25/2018 at 11:20 AM, Kunitzu San said:

My biggest hurdle right now is that the Imperial player for the next campaign is going to be my friend, who is dead-set on using Subversive Tactics, which I am trying to direct him away from. Our last mission was Binary Revolution (IG-88's Agenda Mission), which I won as the Imperial player by staying ahead of the Rebels and by keeping the IG's protected (Technical Support is a beautiful class card!) until the end of Round 6. My friend did not take kindly to that at all, visibly pouting and enraged that he lost to the clock (he's a sore loser/fatalist). It's puzzling to me, because Subversive Tactics just further compounds things, and I sincerely doubt that any of the other players are going to have any fun if he picks that. Reading the Imperial Classes in Heart of the Empire, perhaps those will be more thematically alluring to him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Eesh, it sounds like you might have a toxic player there (or slightly toxic at least).

Getting enraged because you lose is not a good look for the Imperial player, especially because they have a lot of control over how the game goes and event triggers and such.

Being a sore loser isn't good for anyone and really isn't good for the IP. What happens if he gets on the wrong side of the snowball. That sounds like just the greatest Friday evening ever to me. ?

I'd have a talk with him and gently remind him that the game is supposed to be fun for everyone, now just him, and while ST can be fun for the Imperial player it is generally seen as anti-fun for the rebels (as opposed to just oppositional). And you're giving up your time for a game, not a twisted non-consensual sadism romp. Seriosuly it's something that many GMs forget, every game needs them, but every game also needs players. Power derived through the consent of the governed and all that rot.

Good luck.

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 11:27 AM, Zrob314 said:

Eesh, it sounds like you might have a toxic player there (or slightly toxic at least).

Getting enraged because you lose is not a good look for the Imperial player, especially because they have a lot of control over how the game goes and event triggers and such.

Being a sore loser isn't good for anyone and really isn't good for the IP. What happens if he gets on the wrong side of the snowball. That sounds like just the greatest Friday evening ever to me. ?

I'd have a talk with him and gently remind him that the game is supposed to be fun for everyone, now just him, and while ST can be fun for the Imperial player it is generally seen as anti-fun for the rebels (as opposed to just oppositional). And you're giving up your time for a game, not a twisted non-consensual sadism romp. Seriosuly it's something that many GMs forget, every game needs them, but every game also needs players. Power derived through the consent of the governed and all that rot.

Good luck.

Thanks for reaching out! We had actually talked about it afterwards, and we both agreed that he may be a bit too competitive for that role, as well as recognize that he may not be in the greatest headspace during our currents games (we play after work and he leaves a pretty working toxic environment after 9 hours a day), and to acknowledge that it's okay to take a breath and step away if it get's heated/frustrating. He wants to concede that role to another player, or if he were to he would definitely have to play another deck. It will be a while before the next campaign, so there's plenty of time.

It's fortunate that we have a great group playing, and like everyone sometimes we get ahead of ourselves. All in all, the game is about coming together, having fun, and supporting each other, Rebel and Imperial alike.

What a great development, @Kunitzu San ! I'm glad to hear it worked out well for all you guys. Hope things get fun again for everyone

1 hour ago, Kunitzu San said:

Thanks for reaching out! We had actually talked about it afterwards...

I'm glad to hear you were able to talk about it as friends and work out the problem.