Okay with the new pilot ability Intensity and with Jake Ferrell's abilities. What are everyone's thoughts. I have only played 2 games with him set up this way and in one game I thought it was really good. I usually had the extra focus token to flip it at the end of combat but in the other I ended up really wanting was push the limit. Too many times i was rolling 2 or 3 dice with just a focus. And we all know how testy dice can be. My opinion is for Jake it's a great card but it needs to be matched up with another to get the full potential out of it. Thoughts

It's a gimmick, but a fun one. Focus gives you boost (via Jake's ability) gives you another focus (via intensity) gives you barrel roll (via Jake's ability) gives you target lock (via Push The Limit) leads to some moderately ridiculous moves.

I wouldn't replace push the limit with it (because that lets you do any action you need), but it's a worthwhile consideration as his second EPT

Feels to me like it's going to be a really tough choice whether to give up PTL or VI to get Intensity. It's a great choice for him, but... do you give up the extra action, and the ability to get focus/evade or focus/lock (and with it, the ability to easily get multiple tokens in a round that you absolutely NEED to get Intensity flipped, without it you have to be able to boost/BR which isn't always trivial)... or do you give up PS9?

Tough, tough call. It's a natural fit for him, but he has to sacrifice something from his optimal build to get it.

Still waiting for the rules lawyers to take up the cause of Jake getting both Focus and Evade from Intensity without ending up Exhausted.

Intensity: " After you perform a boost or barrel roll action, you may assign 1 focus or evade token to your ship. If you do, flip this card."

Jake: "After you perform a focus action or are assigned a focus token, you may perform a free boost or barrel roll action."

Since "If you do..." is a separate sentence, it can be interrupted by Jake's "After you perform..." leading to this sequence:

1. Jake moves
2. Jake Boosts
3. Intensity drops free Focus [delayed flip 1]
4. Jake interrupts with free Barrel Roll
5. Intensity drops free Evade [flip 2]
6. Resolve 2 flips, 1 to Exhausted, 1 back to Intensity

No.

That's just not how the card works, and trying to argue that it is would be wrong.

It's not even somethign that needs FAQing to know that.

Is that how it really works? I thought you would need at least one focus or evade to flip it back? Meaning you could do what you stated above but still need that focus or evade to flip back.

He's implying that you can do the 'then flip this card' instruction from the front of it twice, by interrupting it in between 'assign a focus or evade token' and 'then flip this card'.

Which is wrong.

25 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

Since "If you do..." is a separate sentence, it can be interrupted by Jake's "After you perform..." leading to this sequence:

1. Jake moves
2. Jake Boosts
3. Intensity drops free Focus [delayed flip 1]
4. Jake interrupts with free Barrel Roll
5. Intensity drops free Evade [flip 2]
6. Resolve 2 flips, 1 to Exhausted, 1 back to Intensity

I hate to say it, but rules as written I think he's technically right. Obviously that's NOT rules as intended though. I smell the FAQ coming! (In like 6 months )

I feel like "once per opportunity" blows a big giant hole through that theory.

Yeah i saw that they did a lot of testing with Jake and this card so i hope the FAQ this just for clarity.

11 minutes ago, Sekac said:

I feel like "once per opportunity" blows a big giant hole through that theory.

Does it? You know that someone out there is going to claim that the Barrel-Roll and the Boost are two separate opportunities...

35 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Which is wrong.

According to which rule? I know this isn't the rules subforum, but you're usually better than this.

26 minutes ago, Sekac said:

I feel like "once per opportunity" blows a big giant hole through that theory.

Nothing in the above sequence broke that rule.

Please point out where it say that interruptions happen at sentence breaks

The only precedent is that 'Do something. Then do something else.' is different from 'After doing something, do something else'.

As ever, it could have been written more clearly (specifically, 'If you do, flip this card *to its Exhausted side*.'), but it's entirely obvious how it's supposed to work.

Back to the original topic: break it down.

Veteran Instincts: puts Jake at a better pilot skill level for arc dodging, offers nothing in the form of dice modification

Push the Limit: combines with Jake's pilot ability for 3 actions per round, option to evade or target lock, stress

Intensity: equivalent to 4 actions per round, but one token is needed to flip Intensity back, so from a certain point of view you're really getting 3 actions and the free token is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Your actions will almost certainly be the same every round, but no stress

The original post expressed issues with dice modification. I have a follow-up question that applies to Push the Limit or Intensity on Jake (no consideration of a second EPT yet.) When do you target lock? The answer is the same for both EPT's: Jake only target locks when a reposition is not the best option for that round. This might be because you can't, or because you have a sweet Procket shot lined up. For one reason or another Target Lock isn't one of Jake's regular choices.

Time to factor in a 2nd EPT for Jake. If dice modification is your goal, then it may be time to consider VI is not his best option. (Hard for me, I fly a lot of Jake, and VI is stapled.) Other people suggested PtL and Intensity. I'm going to leave that alone and look at other options to pair with Intensity.

Juke: Jake does a focus action, repositions with pilot ability and triggers Intensity to get an Evade. Limit to 1 reposition per round, but you're going hang on to that evade token for Juke anyway, so just plan on keeping it until the end of the round to get Intensity back.

Lone Wolf: Jake gets the full benefit of Intensity, and rerolls on offense and defense, but range limit

Predator: Rerolls on offense, full benefit from Intensity, no stress from PtL, no range limit like Lone Wolf.

I'm going to give all of these a chance.

1 hour ago, zhentil said:

Okay with the new pilot ability Intensity and with Jake Ferrell's abilities. What are everyone's thoughts

You still want to keep PTL. VI is a given if you want to evade arcs or stay glued to an enemy ship at range 1. But PTL gives you more freedom, because you have to boost/roll with Intensity if you want the extra action.

PTL allows two out of Focus/Evade/TL/Boost, with a bonus boost or roll

Intensity allows at best FocusAction/BoostRoll/FocusIntensity/BoostRoll, and yes that's better. But you can't just get Focus/Evade. How often is the boost and roll blocked or at least disadvantageous? In my experience often enough. And you also need a token to flip it back, so really just 3 actions, not 4.
That means Intensity is not only limited to the same amount of actions as PTL, it also gives you a smaller range of options to choose from! E.g. no Focus+TL if you are not in danger for a return shot. And no Focus/Evade at range 3 without rolling (which I know is maybe rare but still possible and definitely happened to me before)

So in effect Intensity is clearly worse than PTL, but not by much. So if you really need the point go ahead. Otherwise PTL remains the EPT of your choice.

Take Intensity AND PTL.

Focus action > triggers pilot ability BR > triggers Intensity-assign evade token > PTL for either boost or Target Lock.

4 actions. Go Jake Go!!!!

3 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Take Intensity AND PTL.

Focus action > triggers pilot ability BR > triggers Intensity-assign evade token > PTL for either boost or Target Lock.

4 actions. Go Jake Go!!!!

Get PS killed. Cry.

5 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Take Intensity AND PTL.

Focus action > triggers pilot ability BR > triggers Intensity-assign evade token > PTL for either boost or Target Lock.

4 actions. Go Jake Go!!!!

Looks like you've never played Jake against a higher PS ship.

Often you have a good idea on where you'll end up, but the specifics are hard to predict. I.e. how much forward or backward does your BR need to be? Predicting that exact is an impressive skill. And if you misjudge just once and end up blocking the opponent - who's now behind you! - you are in deep trouble.

So yeah... VI is not an option. PS8 was possible for a short time with many PS8 ships around, but now the PSrace is back.

Yes that's the tricky part. I mean Jake is fragile, so i have to agree that you NEED VI just for survivability.

Wait and see how your meta shapes up. If PS8/9 are prevalent you'll need VI, if they aren't PTL is better.

4 minutes ago, Mrk1984 said:

Wait and see how your meta shapes up. If PS8/9 are prevalent you'll need VI, if they aren't PTL is better.

What do you mean? VI and PTL are not competing for the same slot - PTL and Intensity are

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

What do you mean? VI and PTL are not competing for the same slot - PTL and Intensity are

I'm assuming using Intensity for one EPT. (per the topic)

But if PS9 is needed, PTL is a better option than Intensity.

1 hour ago, ObiWonka said:

Still waiting for the rules lawyers to take up the cause of Jake getting both Focus and Evade from Intensity without ending up Exhausted.

Intensity: " After you perform a boost or barrel roll action, you may assign 1 focus or evade token to your ship. If you do, flip this card."

Jake: "After you perform a focus action or are assigned a focus token, you may perform a free boost or barrel roll action."

Since "If you do..." is a separate sentence, it can be interrupted by Jake's "After you perform..." leading to this sequence:

1. Jake moves
2. Jake Boosts
3. Intensity drops free Focus [delayed flip 1]
4. Jake interrupts with free Barrel Roll
5. Intensity drops free Evade [flip 2]
6. Resolve 2 flips, 1 to Exhausted, 1 back to Intensity

Let's assume you can interrupt Intensity. It's not a stretch, as there are precedents for interrupting other card abilities. Your idea for Jake still ignores the Exhausted side of the card. Your attempt really looks like this:

1. Jake Boost Action

2. Trigger Intensity to assign Focus token.

3. Jake trigger pilot ability for Barrel Roll Action (interrupting Intensity.)

4. Trigger Intensity. Strictly based on the wording of the card, Jakes free Barrel Roll action is a valid trigger for Intensity, but don't get too excited yet.

5. At this point you are waiting to resolve two instances of, "If you do, flip this card." You flip it one time; now the dual card's Exhausted side is face up. The Exhausted side has a distinct card ability, and can only be flipped during the End Phase by spending a focus or evade token. You created a paradox in which two sides of the card have active conditions that must be met. The side of the card you interrupted says you have to flip this card, but y ou can't flip the Exhausted side without meeting the condition of the Exhausted side. If you can't completely resolve all of a card ability, then you aren't allowed to trigger that card ability.

jmswood your response beat me posting the link to the new thread here . (Real quick, though, nothing on Exhausted says it can't be flipped in any other way.)

13 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

jmswood your response beat me posting the link to the new thread here . (Real quick, though, nothing on Exhausted says it can't be flipped in any other way.)

Following the link for my response.