So I was playing against someone yesterday and they pointed out a change apparently made awhile back, to the Advanced Gunnery objective.

The change that the Gunnery Teams card overules the objective and prevents me from choosing a ship equipped with it. Question is: WHY!? What purpose does that serve!? I could understand if FFG changed it to something like not being allowed to add the ability to a large base ship. But what is the logic in the change they made? I really don't see any purpose in it. If I want an upgrade at the cost of flying with a 7pt card that now serves no purpose, then surely that's on me?

It just seems like a completely pointless nerf. So I either need to loadout my ISD in a way that means nobody will ever pick the objective, or just go back to something like Most Wanted.

Advanced Gunnery was the Red of Choice beforehand. There were no other choices to be made.

So it was changed so it no longer stacked to make the most awesome ships at shooting ever in all circumstances.

Now its a Choice.

A Valid Choice.

And makes other Objectives Valid choices.

"The Best of Both Worlds" situations are, generally , avoided.

See, but that's the problem I have with Most Wanted now. There never seems to be any viable choice over it for my fleets.

1 hour ago, DarthAmmon said:

So I was playing against someone yesterday and they pointed out a change apparently made awhile back, to the Advanced Gunnery objective.

The change that the Gunnery Teams card overules the objective and prevents me from choosing a ship equipped with it. Question is: WHY!? What purpose does that serve!? I could understand if FFG changed it to something like not being allowed to add the ability to a large base ship. But what is the logic in the change they made? I really don't see any purpose in it. If I want an upgrade at the cost of flying with a 7pt card that now serves no purpose, then surely that's on me?

It just seems like a completely pointless nerf. So I either need to loadout my ISD in a way that means nobody will ever pick the objective, or just go back to something like Most Wanted.

This was no change, it was always this way. The FAQ entry is a clarification.

The rule you are looking for is in the RRG on page 1. The golden Rule.

Quote

If a card effect uses the word “cannot,” that effect is absolute

Gunnery Team:

Quote

You can attack from the same hull zone more than once per activation. That hull zone cannot target the same ship or squadron more than once during that activation.

The gunnery team always forbid you to attack the same target more than once. Advanced gunnery does not work because of this "cannot".
The FAQ entry was only a clarification for this, because some thought that the objective can overwrite the gunnery team.

And about choices on the objective:
What do you mean? Do you mean that you have no choice to pick any other red objective for your fleet? Or have no choice if the opponent has the red?

There are 8 red missions. And there are more than a few that you can pick for several fleets.
Advanced Gunnery when you have a big ship without gunnery team.
Most Wanted when you have many small ships or if you have a Flotilla (when it is your mission)
Station Assault when you have big ships that can protect the stations.
Precision Strike when you have a squadron list.
Opening Salvo when you have many ships with red dice or when you can abuse the black crit on long range.
Targeting Beacon when you can move the token around with strategic and need the rerolls (red dice and crits).
Close-Range Intel Scan when you have a lot of ships with few blue dice (Gozanti). This way they have always an effect with the 1 blue die.
Blockage Run. Ok, i never really saw someone play this mission . But it is usefull when you are not planing on loosing any ship, and if you are fast enough to dodge the attacks.

Pedantic Biggs Time:

There's actually nothing keeping you from making the Gunnery Teams ship the objective ship. You just don't get any benefit from it.

Also if I remember the history right, the rule came about because someone asked FFG about how Advanced Gunnery and Slaved Turrets worked when Wave 2 came out, and FFG's reply that "cannot" on the upgrade card took precedence (which was always the case) also passed on to Gunnery Teams, which everyone forgot also contained a "cannot". This definitely turned Advanced Gunnery from the "best" Red Objective to a niche objective for MC80 (Home One) and Salvation based lists, and made Slaved Turrets a card that wasn't even good when it came out.

6 hours ago, Tokra said:

This was no change, it was always this way. The FAQ entry is a clarification.

The rule you are looking for is in the RRG on page 1. The golden Rule.

Gunnery Team:

The gunnery team always forbid you to attack the same target more than once. Advanced gunnery does not work because of this "cannot".
The FAQ entry was only a clarification for this, because some thought that the objective can overwrite the gunnery team.

And about choices on the objective:
What do you mean? Do you mean that you have no choice to pick any other red objective for your fleet? Or have no choice if the opponent has the red?

There are 8 red missions. And there are more than a few that you can pick for several fleets.
Advanced Gunnery when you have a big ship without gunnery team.
Most Wanted when you have many small ships or if you have a Flotilla (when it is your mission)
Station Assault when you have big ships that can protect the stations.
Precision Strike when you have a squadron list.
Opening Salvo when you have many ships with red dice or when you can abuse the black crit on long range.
Targeting Beacon when you can move the token around with strategic and need the rerolls (red dice and crits).
Close-Range Intel Scan when you have a lot of ships with few blue dice (Gozanti). This way they have always an effect with the 1 blue die.
Blockage Run. Ok, i never really saw someone play this mission . But it is usefull when you are not planing on loosing any ship, and if you are fast enough to dodge the attacks.

Advanced Gunnery - "I have an MC80 (Home One), or Avenger with Boarding Troops"
Blockade Run - "I have fast, forward facing guns, and I would really, really like my opponent to not be able to flank them."
Close-Range Intel Scan - "Look at all these blue dice I have on my ships! Oh, hi Jonus."
Most Wanted - "I have a flotilla and don't want to think."
Opening Salvo - "Look at all these CR90s I have!"
Precision Strike - "Look at all these Rieekan Aceholes I have!"
Station Assault - "I'm okay with handing you an 80 point swing if I can dictate where your ships have to go."
Targeting Beacon - "Look at how much I invested in Strategic , Relay and Intel !"

...yet still MW is HUGELY overrepresented

7 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

...yet still MW is HUGELY overrepresented

Probably because people have Flotillas and don't want to think.

Not a case of "I don't want to think". More of one where yes, I have a flotilla and I'm either going to make that big ship of yours a lot more expensive, or I'm going to make you a good bit more worried about shoving that MC30 in my face.

Close Range Intel Scan might be viable for my current fleet though. Might make a couple of changes to set up better for it. :-)

21 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Probably because people have Flotillas and don't want to think.

Something like that almost got Gink banned

Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

Something like that almost got Gink banned

::shrug:: I'm just quoting Biggs above.

Ban @BiggsIRL !

I stand by my half-joking statements.

When I have MW, I'm certainly thinking of the double points and extra dice.

On 07/17/2017 at 9:18 AM, Drasnighta said:

Probably because people have Flotillas and don't want to think.

Actually I think choosing what ship your opponent has to be the mw ship takes quite a bit of thought... After deployments it might be a lot better to name some random corvette rather than admo for instance if your opponent has placed admo in a place you'll have trouble shooting at... I've seen way too many people auto choose demo, or admo, or big ship whatever when they had no realistic chance of bringing it down... There is much skill involved in mw, at least more than advanced gunnery