Just now, Icelom said:

This I don't understand TLT's can be flown against they do have that lovely range one bubble. They take good flying to deal with, I can't see your issue with them coming from your perspective of "predictive flying".

I am not the biggest fan of primary weapon turrets due to the flying being the most fun part of the game (i don't usually fly them) but I find them to generally be the weaker ships and go down very fast to my style of fleet building. But TLT's can be straight up outflown.

Yeah that's true, and a good point. They're definitely counterable, and I think they're closer to being the correct flavor for the game than PWTs are, but still need a tweak of some sort.

6 minutes ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:

It's like someone arguing that Merzbow is just as good as the Beatles. I want you to listen to a Merbow song and say the phrase, "art is subjective" over and over.

Or that some skill less ******* randomly splattering paint onto a canvas makes art that is just as good as the Mona Lisa or Religious Procession in the Kursk Province.

"Who are you to judge that a man farting to the tune of Bohemian Rhapsody is any 'lesser' than Beethoven's 6th Symphony? That's just like your opinion, man."

Subjectivity enters into it and plays a large role of course, but at a certain point you move out of the gray area and into black or white. Citizen Kane may not be the best movie ever made, but it's certainly not in the gray area.

Turrets are one of these things that ignore fundamental aspects of the game, just like Merzbow ignores fundamental things about good sounding music. Or random paint splattering ignores fundamental things about good paintings.

Seriously kiddo, you are well named. You need to get over the fact not everyone sees things as you do, through a veil of tears. YES your opinions are subjective. A fine example is where you say turrets ignore fundamental aspects of the game. The game has had turrets since Wave ONE, and you claim it isn't fundamental?

You are still presenting your mere opinion as fact. Repetition won't make it so.

5 minutes ago, Rat of Vengence said:

Seriously kiddo, you are well named. You need to get over the fact not everyone sees things as you do, through a veil of tears. YES your opinions are subjective. A fine example is where you say turrets ignore fundamental aspects of the game. The game has had turrets since Wave ONE, and you claim it isn't fundamental?

You are still presenting your mere opinion as fact. Repetition won't make it so.

Yep, just like there are some people that think Merzbow is good and that Religious Procession in the Kursk Province is on equal footing with random paint splattering.

Ion Cannon Turret is in an entirely different league from TLT and fat turrets. That's a bad comparison and you know it.

29 minutes ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:

Yep, just like there are some people that think Merzbow is good and that Religious Procession in the Kursk Province is on equal footing with random paint splattering.

Ion Cannon Turret is in an entirely different league from TLT and fat turrets. That's a bad comparison and you know it.

I quoted your exact words, you said turrets and you know it. Be more specific if you meant otherwise.

Are you sure you aren't ParaGoombaSlayer with a new log in? The 'logic' you employ sounds familiar...

ITT bad players who can't beat TLT's.

23 minutes ago, Rat of Vengence said:

I quoted your exact words, you said turrets and you know it. Be more specific if you meant otherwise.

Are you sure you aren't ParaGoombaSlayer with a new log in? The 'logic' you employ sounds familiar...

How about you be less anal when you argue, you know what I mean.

Are you going to address my argument or just try to deflect with personal attacks and avoid it? How can you possibly be wrong if you label the opposition a troll? Then your argument is true by default.

Turrets take skill just like Merzbow is equally as good musically as the Beatles. Art is subjective.

Religious Procession in the Kursk Province is a better painting than random paint splatters? That's just YOUR opinion and how YOU feel towards art.

39 minutes ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:

How about you be less anal when you argue, you know what I mean.

Are you going to address my argument or just try to deflect with personal attacks and avoid it? How can you possibly be wrong if you label the opposition a troll? Then your argument is true by default.

Turrets take skill just like Merzbow is equally as good musically as the Beatles. Art is subjective.

Religious Procession in the Kursk Province is a better painting than random paint splatters? That's just YOUR opinion and how YOU feel towards art.

What argument? All you are doing is presenting your opinions as fact. I'm pretty sure you are a PGS sock puppet, you have the same long distance relationship with logic as he does. Anything you have trouble flying against is broken. Anything that doesn't fit *YOUR* idea of fun is NPE.

Get over yourself and try enjoying the game kiddo

Just now, Rat of Vengence said:

What argument? All you are doing is presenting your opinions as fact. I'm pretty sure you are a PGS sock puppet, you have the same long distance relationship with logic as he does. Anything you have trouble flying against is broken. Anything that doesn't fit *YOUR* idea of fun is NPE.

Get over yourself and try enjoying the game kiddo

"What argument? All you are doing is presenting your opinions as fact." Go ahead, take a steaming pile of **** on the entire concept of debate.

Your side of the argument is a joke.

4 minutes ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:

"What argument? All you are doing is presenting your opinions as fact." Go ahead, take a steaming pile of **** on the entire concept of debate.

Your side of the argument is a joke.

Look kid, you aren't interested in a debate, you just want to tell others they are wrong because your opinion is somehow facts. If the game is that bad, why bother playing and bringing NPE to your opponents? Or are you actually reasonable in real life?

2 hours ago, HammerGibbens said:

Wow, not one single mechanic in the entire game you think they made a mistake on and is objectively bad?

Considering you guys are mixing subjectivity and objectivity because many comments before the quote were about subjective play experiences:

There are mechanics that I'd personally consider to be objectively* bad that are still subjectively fun to some people.

*objectively: defined by majority preference, or by what I consider to be good for the game overall? That second way is biased by my subjective view, of course. I'm personally heavily biased towards dogfighting, swarms, and acewing. I still think it's possible to appreciate better game design, or to call out worse game design though. HighPS+HighHP+TLTcarrier+Bombs+Bomb-invulnerability+Bomb-rerolls might be an example of bad game design, for example.

5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Considering you guys are mixing subjectivity and objectivity because many comments before the quote were about subjective play experiences:

Yeah, I'll give you that. I'm trying to get my argument straight but I think personal play experience will always vary. I also think that an objectively bad mechanic will give the majority of players a negative play experience, as is obviously the case with TLTs, PWTs, etc, which is to say: The objective colors the subjective.

31 minutes ago, Rat of Vengence said:

Look kid

That's very condescending.

43 minutes ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:

Go ahead, take a steaming pile of ****

I agree with a lot of stuff you say but you really lose your cool so much it's hard to side with you.

36 minutes ago, HammerGibbens said:

That's very condescending.

Yes, it is. See, you are able to conduct a rational discussion, and even if we disagree I have no problem with that at all. You are able to accept when someone else has made a good point. I am more than happy to continue to disagree (or perhaps agree) with you in a civil manner.

I save the condescension for those truely deserving of it

RoV

Internet screaming.

I've never had much of a problem with tlt's or with secondary weapon turrets in general.

Sure, tlt's are powerful, and consistent. But they also require an amount of range management on the part of the user in order to be effective. (as do all the other secondary turrets)

If you're able to manage the range of the engagement effectively through skillfull flying then barring extreme variances of chance you will beat tlt's the vast majority of the time.

Primary weapon turrets are a little more contentious since range management is more of a moot point against them, which is where Miranda enters the discussion; the combination of tlt, 4 dice primary turret, and bombs can be extremely daunting to face (this before we mention slam and shield regen). But of course what we have to remember here is that she is a very consistent but low damage output which will fall to correctly focussed fire from multiple ships. And that she is a big points sink (over half your list on her).

I can see why people may not enjoy fighting tlt's but in my experience flying against them I've never found them to be particularly overpowered, nor have I found the experience to be negative.

38 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Internet screaming.

I kant hearrit... this is why I stay out of these threads.

This is why (in part) I play at home far afar-a-way from the gamer gang at most local stores.

Nah, stay out of MY BELOVED GLORIOUS STAR WARS TOYS GAMES!

19 minutes ago, Joe Boss Red Seven said:

I kant hearrit... this is why I stay out of these threads.

This is why (in part) I play at home far afar-a-way from the gamer gang at most local stores.

Nah, stay out of MY BELOVED GLORIOUS STAR WARS TOYS GAMES!

Got to play some Armada with a good friend who was humoring me. Some of the most fun I've had in a long time. Don't get to often. No one plays Armada with me besides. I got the urge to paint. The urge to create. That's a good thing there. Best thing you can feel in your belly.

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

Got to play some Armada with a good friend who was humoring me. Some of the most fun I've had in a long time. Don't get to often. No one plays Armada with me besides. I got the urge to paint. The urge to create. That's a good thing there. Best thing you can feel in your belly.

I know Brah. I have fun without the store crowd... for sure for sure. I have to wonder why do so many people go to these places, if it is so annoying for them? STAY OUT of these hateful places!

DUR...

53 minutes ago, Joe Boss Red Seven said:

I know Brah. I have fun without the store crowd... for sure for sure. I have to wonder why do so many people go to these places, if it is so annoying for them? STAY OUT of these hateful places!

DUR...

I love my store crowd! All 3 of them...

2 hours ago, namdoolb said:

I've never had much of a problem with tlt's or with secondary weapon turrets in general.

Sure, tlt's are powerful, and consistent. But they also require an amount of range management on the part of the user in order to be effective. (as do all the other secondary turrets)

If you're able to manage the range of the engagement effectively through skillfull flying then barring extreme variances of chance you will beat tlt's the vast majority of the time.

Primary weapon turrets are a little more contentious since range management is more of a moot point against them, which is where Miranda enters the discussion; the combination of tlt, 4 dice primary turret, and bombs can be extremely daunting to face (this before we mention slam and shield regen). But of course what we have to remember here is that she is a very consistent but low damage output which will fall to correctly focussed fire from multiple ships. And that she is a big points sink (over half your list on her).

I can see why people may not enjoy fighting tlt's but in my experience flying against them I've never found them to be particularly overpowered, nor have I found the experience to be negative.

+

38 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

I love my store crowd! All 3 of them...

How dare you NOT play X-WING like it is *a soccer match in the dead of winter surrounded by a pack of hungry dire wolves... How Dare You... I Sez!

* ace wing

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Best thing you can feel in your belly.

Other than bread-and-butter pudding, obviously.

"When going straight has you near the edge of the board, try a 2 bank." ~Double Edge

53 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Other than bread-and-butter pudding, obviously.

Or rum.

1 hour ago, Joe Boss Red Seven said:

How dare you NOT play X-WING like it is *a soccer match in the dead of winter surrounded by a pack of hungry dire wolves... How Dare You... I Sez!

* ace wing

My FLGS had multiple epic games going on league night last week. People scratching that itch with the new C-ROC. Hopefully it will stick around.

2 hours ago, kris40k said:

My FLGS had multiple epic games going on league night last week. People scratching that itch with the new C-ROC. Hopefully it will stick around.

We just put an Epic night on the schedule at our usually hyper meta competitive store. It's going to feel odd, and I'm going to be super out of my element, but I'm looking forward to it.

That being said, our local community is 99% full of really, really awesome X-Wingers, I have no complaints there.