they should talk about Shoju, show card art for him in the preview section, but then have the actually card previewed be Ambition:Bloodsword Attachment. Then put Shoju in the next set

On 7/18/2017 at 0:08 PM, JJ48 said:

Sort of like how Star Wars' Expanded Universe went to thoroughly non-canon just because Disney said, "These are definitely not canon anymore".

Star Wars Expanded universe was always non-cannon. all novels originally were non-cannon. not sure where people thought the expanded universe became cannon....There was a brief point where the Thrawn Trilogy became cannon but that was it. And Disney bought LucasFilms, it came with Star Wars which is of course why they bought it but still.

1 minute ago, Akodo_Metuki said:

Star Wars Expanded universe was always non-cannon. all novels originally were non-cannon. not sure where people thought the expanded universe became cannon....There was a brief point where the Thrawn Trilogy became cannon but that was it. And Disney bought LucasFilms, it came with Star Wars which is of course why they bought it but still.

I seem to recall it being a bit more complex than that, most of the EU falling into a sort of middle ground that wasn't fully canon, but wasn't fully non-canon either.

And you say the Thrawn Trilogy "was it" when it came to EU being made canon, but then again, most people are probably thinking primarily of the Thrawn Trilogy when they talk about the EU anyway, so that's probably why many people considered EU to be canon.

7 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I seem to recall it being a bit more complex than that, most of the EU falling into a sort of middle ground that wasn't fully canon, but wasn't fully non-canon either.

And you say the Thrawn Trilogy "was it" when it came to EU being made canon, but then again, most people are probably thinking primarily of the Thrawn Trilogy when they talk about the EU anyway, so that's probably why many people considered EU to be canon.

Officially, Lucas has always said the EU was never canon. Fans created tiers and the publishing houses tried desperately to convince fans they were canon.

With the whole Disney thing, It was the only thing they could possibly do, and better than what would have happened if Lucas ever made Episode 7, which would be completely ignore the EU's existence and make a movie that destroyed whatever fan continuity their was.

1 hour ago, RandomJC said:

Officially, Lucas has always said the EU was never canon. Fans created tiers and the publishing houses tried desperately to convince fans they were canon.

With the whole Disney thing, It was the only thing they could possibly do, and better than what would have happened if Lucas ever made Episode 7, which would be completely ignore the EU's existence and make a movie that destroyed whatever fan continuity their was.

idk - the way you say it makes it sound so nefarious. LucasFilms didn't exactly make anything in the SW universe for a long time, and some very well written fictions were released. Basically from the original starwars release through the clone wars cartoon those fictions were what kept the universe alive. Without those, the prequels would have cost a much larger branch of the audience. They weren't "canon" in a sense that the creators didn't make them, but in the absence of any real material and with the quality bar some fictions presented I think they sort of make themselves canon simply for rallying the fan base around them. If SW never came back with TFA or any other new movies then the EU would have pretty much been starwars because the fans were the ones in control at that time.

Disney's announcement was important, and makes sense because they needed to take creative control of the franchise back so they can make movies and build the universe themselves. They need to be able to cast out the older expectations so they can write their own rules and machinations for the story. Fortunately they've made good by the fans by releasing quality movies the fans can rally around, making it a fair trade off. If TFA was as bad as the prequels, the fans wouldn't care what Disney said about the EU and continued to pursue that area regardless. There is a balance of ownership here that the producer must respect or the fans will simply take control of the universe without them.

AEG did a similar thing when they took control back of L5R - they made the Clan War novels "non-canon." Except... did they release better works that replaced these? Maybe that is why fans still use these novels as the "most accurate version" of the Clan Wars events. Regardless of what AEG says, if they don't give the fans a quality replacement the fans are still going to accept those stories and they are essentially canon for lack of a better option. FFG has said something similar in taking over L5R themselves. It's a reboot and all previous story is off the table. If they don't give us great stories to replace the ones we had before then we aren't going to forget the SCC, or 2nd Day of Thunder, or 4 Winds, or Spider Clan, ect. They gotta bring something great that the player base can actually accept as canon for them to let go of the previous rendition.

2 minutes ago, shosuko said:

idk - the way you say it makes it sound so nefarious. LucasFilms didn't exactly make anything in the SW universe for a long time, and some very well written fictions were released. Basically from the original starwars release through the clone wars cartoon those fictions were what kept the universe alive. Without those, the prequels would have cost a much larger branch of the audience. They weren't "canon" in a sense that the creators didn't make them, but in the absence of any real material and with the quality bar some fictions presented I think they sort of make themselves canon simply for rallying the fan base around them. If SW never came back with TFA or any other new movies then the EU would have pretty much been starwars because the fans were the ones in control at that time.

Disney's announcement was important, and makes sense because they needed to take creative control of the franchise back so they can make movies and build the universe themselves. They need to be able to cast out the older expectations so they can write their own rules and machinations for the story. Fortunately they've made good by the fans by releasing quality movies the fans can rally around, making it a fair trade off. If TFA was as bad as the prequels, the fans wouldn't care what Disney said about the EU and continued to pursue that area regardless. There is a balance of ownership here that the producer must respect or the fans will simply take control of the universe without them.

AEG did a similar thing when they took control back of L5R - they made the Clan War novels "non-canon." Except... did they release better works that replaced these? Maybe that is why fans still use these novels as the "most accurate version" of the Clan Wars events. Regardless of what AEG says, if they don't give the fans a quality replacement the fans are still going to accept those stories and they are essentially canon for lack of a better option. FFG has said something similar in taking over L5R themselves. It's a reboot and all previous story is off the table. If they don't give us great stories to replace the ones we had before then we aren't going to forget the SCC, or 2nd Day of Thunder, or 4 Winds, or Spider Clan, ect. They gotta bring something great that the player base can actually accept as canon for them to let go of the previous rendition.

Not making it nefarious. Just stating the facts. Lucas never viewed the EU as canon, and end of day he was the one who defined what or wasn't canon, not the fans. He was very public in that, but publishing companies basically wanted the readers to believe the stories did matter, so tried their best to ignore it. Same with fans. We can pretend they were "canon" but when the prequels never regarded them as canon, and even walked over what the EU had already established as "canon". Which lead to fans jumping through hoops to correct this "canon".

Looking at what would have happened with Episode VII if Lucas had made it can easily be seen in how Episode I was made, completely and entirely ignoring the EU. The only difference is, Lucas would have irreparably damaged the EU "canon" that no amount of juggling and retcons could fix. And he'd be right to, he never said the EU was canon, even EU he admitted to liking, isn't canon to him. Only things he was involved in was canon to what he did, and that means if we ever saw an Episode VII, it would be without regard to what the EU was or would have been doing.

And onto Disney, and if TFA sucked. Fans would have been stuck with nothing. no EU, and no good SW. EU is controlled by companies, not fans. Fans can't just create EU and call it canon, at least not in any meaningful way to consider anything as a continuation of the EU. There isn't a balance of ownership, fans don't own anything. That is a fundamental flaw fans have, they think they have a right to this content, and a right for it to be a certain way. They don't. Never will, and never should.

2 hours ago, shosuko said:

idk - the way you say it makes it sound so nefarious. LucasFilms didn't exactly make anything in the SW universe for a long time, and some very well written fictions were released. Basically from the original starwars release through the clone wars cartoon those fictions were what kept the universe alive. Without those, the prequels would have cost a much larger branch of the audience. They weren't "canon" in a sense that the creators didn't make them, but in the absence of any real material and with the quality bar some fictions presented I think they sort of make themselves canon simply for rallying the fan base around them. If SW never came back with TFA or any other new movies then the EU would have pretty much been starwars because the fans were the ones in control at that time.

Disney's announcement was important, and makes sense because they needed to take creative control of the franchise back so they can make movies and build the universe themselves. They need to be able to cast out the older expectations so they can write their own rules and machinations for the story. Fortunately they've made good by the fans by releasing quality movies the fans can rally around, making it a fair trade off. If TFA was as bad as the prequels, the fans wouldn't care what Disney said about the EU and continued to pursue that area regardless. There is a balance of ownership here that the producer must respect or the fans will simply take control of the universe without them.

AEG did a similar thing when they took control back of L5R - they made the Clan War novels "non-canon." Except... did they release better works that replaced these? Maybe that is why fans still use these novels as the "most accurate version" of the Clan Wars events. Regardless of what AEG says, if they don't give the fans a quality replacement the fans are still going to accept those stories and they are essentially canon for lack of a better option. FFG has said something similar in taking over L5R themselves. It's a reboot and all previous story is off the table. If they don't give us great stories to replace the ones we had before then we aren't going to forget the SCC, or 2nd Day of Thunder, or 4 Winds, or Spider Clan, ect. They gotta bring something great that the player base can actually accept as canon for them to let go of the previous rendition.

The license to use Star Wars to write, actually had terminology including nothing not released by Lucas was cannon, so although fans may have felt that it was cannon, or was the level of quality to be, none of it ever actually was. Lucas once said in an interview that the thran trilogy was 7,, and 9. although he recanted it later. all Disney did was clarify that none of those novels were cannon. The ones released for the new movies are cannon i believe but nothing in the EU was

9 minutes ago, Akodo_Metuki said:

The license to use Star Wars to write, actually had terminology including nothing not released by Lucas was cannon, so although fans may have felt that it was cannon, or was the level of quality to be, none of it ever actually was. Lucas once said in an interview that the thran trilogy was 7,, and 9. although he recanted it later. all Disney did was clarify that none of those novels were cannon. The ones released for the new movies are cannon i believe but nothing in the EU was

Disney/Lucasfilm has said everything produced by the story group; novels, comics, cartoons, etc, are canon. So unlike before the acquisition they are willing to treat "EU" content as official universe, and cherry on top have made moves to actually make what was never canon into canon.

45 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Disney/Lucasfilm has said everything produced by the story group; novels, comics, cartoons, etc, are canon. So unlike before the acquisition they are willing to treat "EU" content as official universe, and cherry on top have made moves to actually make what was never canon into canon.

Well, part of the problem with the old EU was that the license was just sort of thrown around with very little input from Lucas himself. That not only meant that it wasn't really canon, but it also led to wildly varying quality in the works. Some novels felt very much a part of the Star Wars universe, while others felt so different that you wondered if the authors had ever even seen Star Wars.

Under the new regime, I believe the studio is more restrictive on the fiction, and has a bit more of a hand in ensuring that it fits with the universe they're growing, so they can just flat-out call it canon.

4 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Well, part of the problem with the old EU was that the license was just sort of thrown around with very little input from Lucas himself. That not only meant that it wasn't really canon, but it also led to wildly varying quality in the works. Some novels felt very much a part of the Star Wars universe, while others felt so different that you wondered if the authors had ever even seen Star Wars.

Under the new regime, I believe the studio is more restrictive on the fiction, and has a bit more of a hand in ensuring that it fits with the universe they're growing, so they can just flat-out call it canon.

Very true. There is more direct control by Lucasfilm with it's licensing.

But, that doesn't mean Lucasfilm views novels and films on the same playing field. Obviously they still want to have the films placed into that space then the novels built around it. They will do everything in their power to make sure that the film takes precedent over the book. I'm just waiting for when the first big contradiction between film/novel occurs and Lucasfilm has to decided what to do.

It's Shoju.

~D

2 minutes ago, HoodieDM said:

It's Shoju.

~D

Or is it both? What yo don't realize is Shoju's game text reads Action: Remove this card from the game put Bayushi Kachicko into play from outside the game. Flavor text: You know I never see them both at the same time

15 minutes ago, HoodieDM said:

It's Shoju.

~D

Yeah, just saw that, and he's 3/7

2 hours ago, Taki said:

Yeah, just saw that, and he's 3/7

With 2 glory no less!

2 minutes ago, Fumo said:

With 2 glory no less!

I'm not sure about how they stat'ed him out. I totally see him as more politically able than Hotaru, but less glorious than her or Toturi... I don't know if I buy that.

1 hour ago, Taki said:

I'm not sure about how they stat'ed him out. I totally see him as more politically able than Hotaru, but less glorious than her or Toturi... I don't know if I buy that.

Keep in mind he's the Scorpion's evergreen champ, so he needs to be representative of the Scorpion's playstyle. And Scorpion aren't typically known for glory.

6 hours ago, Taki said:

I'm not sure about how they stat'ed him out. I totally see him as more politically able than Hotaru, but less glorious than her or Toturi... I don't know if I buy that.

He has lower glory not because he is less glorious, but because he cares about glory less than they do. It is the same reason Kisada is 0 glory.

Shoju is still a fearsome Political force even when dishonored. A 5 Pol when dishonored definitely lets him threaten provinces.

On 7/20/2017 at 9:45 AM, RandomJC said:

Officially, Lucas has always said the EU was never canon. Fans created tiers

Specifically, fans employed by Lucasfilm .