3 hours ago, xero989 said:ackbar is the same point cost and he adds two dice, but only out your side that does boost damage output but so does Leia but she gives a little bit more consistency and more flexibility
Flexibility is exactly what Leia is lacking. If you confire, youre only allowed to confire. With ackbar you are adding 2 red dice plus activating a squad plus switching speed plus repairing a shield and or rerolling a dice.
5 hours ago, xerpo said:Flexibility is exactly what Leia is lacking. If you confire, youre only allowed to confire. With ackbar you are adding 2 red dice plus activating a squad plus switching speed plus repairing a shield and or rerolling a dice.
Well, you can do all that true - for one turn. Then you've blown your tokens and you're stuck just adding those two dice. Which you may not want to add if you can double arc instead.
Leia offers sustained game-long flexibility, as long as you have the right command dialed in each turn (a pretty big if admittedly). And if you decide you need a burst of tokens one turn instead, you have that option.
Leia may restrict a ship's options each turn, but offers a well designed fleet increased flexibility overall, over the course of the game.
I think her best strength is the 4 squadrons per GR-75 activations, while keeping them just 23 points each (with Expanded Hangers). Keeps your squadron pushers cheep, meaning you can run them into the fight without worrying about feeding your opponent too many points. Also a cheap (or at least less token shenanigans) Yavaris.
13 hours ago, xerpo said:Flexibility is exactly what Leia is lacking. If you confire, youre only allowed to confire. With ackbar you are adding 2 red dice plus activating a squad plus switching speed plus repairing a shield and or rerolling a dice.
Yeah I don't think she is good on big ships
17 hours ago, BiggsIRL said:I think her best strength is the 4 squadrons per GR-75 activations, while keeping them just 23 points each (with Expanded Hangers). Keeps your squadron pushers cheep, meaning you can run them into the fight without worrying about feeding your opponent too many points. Also a cheap (or at least less token shenanigans) Yavaris.
So, are you planning to activate squadrons at medium range, with a GR-75? Imps are already terrified on bringing in a quasar into the medium range to do that... So you either need 4 VCX or drop EHB for Boosted Comms to activate 3 instead. Otherwhise your GR-75 is going to last one turn. Not to mention the blue dice at long range from the disposable capacitors... Nah, GR-75 carriers are resticted to the relay, so if you want them to be efficient is always going to be just to two squadrons as much.
After one use, I really like her. If you've built your fleet well she maximizes everything. She allowed me to run my 80 Battle Cruiser like Madine. The limitation is her flexibility, but this puts pressure on us to do well setting our command dials. So her weakness is probably me more so than her. Also, I think she's better for campaign and 500 point list, but that is just me. Place Redemption in there w/ a pelta and you're getting 4 shields regenerated a turn 
. . . I don't foresee anymore Admirals with no obvious weakness. FFG likes players to have to sacrifice something for something "greater". . . . The Motti nerf is coming.
9 minutes ago, TK 421 said:After one use, I really like her. If you've built your fleet well she maximizes everything. She allowed me to run my 80 Battle Cruiser like Madine. The limitation is her flexibility, but this puts pressure on us to do well setting our command dials. So her weakness is probably me more so than her. Also, I think she's better for campaign and 500 point list, but that is just me. Place Redemption in there w/ a pelta and you're getting 4 shields regenerated a turn
So... what is exactly Sloane sacrificing?
6 minutes ago, xerpo said:So... what is exactly Sloane sacrificing?
If your squads die you're left with a commander that does nothing for your ships. If you can't get your squads unengaged, you're left with a commander that does nothing for your ships.
With Sloane, you are betting you can play the squad game better than your opponent. She falls into the same trap that Sato does. You need squads to make them work. FT Raider bites into both of their abilities.
The main thing you are sacrificing is the opportunity to run a different commander.
24 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:If your squads die you're left with a commander that does nothing for your ships. If you can't get your squads unengaged, you're left with a commander that does nothing for your ships.
With Sloane, you are betting you can play the squad game better than your opponent. She falls into the same trap that Sato does. You need squads to make them work. FT Raider bites into both of their abilities.
The main thing you are sacrificing is the opportunity to run a different commander.
Its the same problem that Sato faces
38 minutes ago, jamie nasmyth said:Its the same problem that Sato faces
Yes, I did say that 
1 hour ago, xerpo said:So... what is exactly Sloane sacrificing?
Wave after wave of her own men.
53 minutes ago, jamie nasmyth said:Its the same problem that Sato faces
Its a similar, but distinct problem.
If anything, its worse under Sloane in specific circumstances...
If we make the assumption that Sloane, effectively, wants to be engaging Ships to flip that defense token (it makes the greatest difference), then there's two status effects that need to be complied with:
1) Distance to Ship (Distance 1/Close with Rhymer)
2) Ability to Shoot at Ships (lack of Engagement / Positive Intel)
With Sato, you, effectively, only half that problem - as Sato only needs proximity to ships... The actual individual presence of enemy fighters is immaterial to Sato's ability (but may, of course, mean the fighters don't stick around long, of course)... This means that Sato doesn't particularily care what squadrons he is using - they can be cheep and cheery dime-a-dozen Z-95s, or they can be VCXs that challenge the enemy to burn through 8 hull points to get rid of them...
Its a very similar dilemma, but its not the same one - because Sato doesn't care what the Fighters are Doing when they get there, they're a little more hands off... Whereas Sloane enabled fighters who get to distance 1 of an enemy ship, but are then bogged down by generic enemies and are not equipped with intel, are effectively useless to Sloane... But in the same situation, would still be useful for Sato.
Of course, this is one specific situation - and in both cases, it makes the fundamental assumption that the Friendly Fighters have been able to position before being Engaged... But again, that's an assumption that applies to both sides fairly equally, given the specific discussion.
On the Discussion of Leia, however!
I think she is incidentally suited for the Swarm more than the Big Ships... Less because of any specific advantage, but rather, Small ships are generally getting by without banking tokens, being fed tokens, or somesuch... They're already inherently geared for turn-by-turn decision and action... Multi-turn things generally happen in "oh crap!" circumstances - such as banking an Engineering Token one turn and then an Engineering Command the next to clear a Critical Card... Whereas Leia is just giving that striaght up to you.
You certainly see some 2-Command ships still want to follow that Archtype - Yavaris wants to Yavaris, Salvation wants to ConFire, and even a RaymusPelta can see the benefit of AFFMing alongside pushing 4-5 squadrons every turn.
But when you get into the Larger ships - that's when you start seeing the opposite of the Command 1 ships... You're already ahving to plot and plan 3 turns in advance, and you have the ability to stock and store tokens, so you do, and you lose out on that flexibility... Not to say you can't develop an Assault Cruiser who wants to do nothing but alternating Confires and Engineering to stay alive, but it starts to not feel as efficient.
So yes, Incidentally, she feels like an MSU Commander... Rather than by Design.
Regardless, you need to have a Plan with her, like with everyone else - only her plan extends into ship Archtype and ability, rather than just tactics.
Edited by Drasnighta1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:Its a similar, but distinct problem.
If anything, its worse under Sloane in specific circumstances...
If we make the assumption that Sloane, effectively, wants to be engaging Ships to flip that defense token (it makes the greatest difference), then there's two status effects that need to be complied with:
1) Distance to Ship (Distance 1/Close with Rhymer)
2) Ability to Shoot at Ships (lack of Engagement / Positive Intel)
With Sato, you, effectively, only half that problem - as Sato only needs proximity to ships... The actual individual presence of enemy fighters is immaterial to Sato's ability (but may, of course, mean the fighters don't stick around long, of course)... This means that Sato doesn't particularily care what squadrons he is using - they can be cheep and cheery dime-a-dozen Z-95s, or they can be VCXs that challenge the enemy to burn through 8 hull points to get rid of them...
Its a very similar dilemma, but its not the same one - because Sato doesn't care what the Fighters are Doing when they get there, they're a little more hands off... Whereas Sloane enabled fighters who get to distance 1 of an enemy ship, but are then bogged down by generic enemies and are not equipped with intel, are effectively useless to Sloane... But in the same situation, would still be useful for Sato.
Of course, this is one specific situation - and in both cases, it makes the fundamental assumption that the Friendly Fighters have been able to position before being Engaged... But again, that's an assumption that applies to both sides fairly equally, given the specific discussion.
On the Discussion of Leia, however!
I think she is incidentally suited for the Swarm more than the Big Ships... Less because of any specific advantage, but rather, Small ships are generally getting by without banking tokens, being fed tokens, or somesuch... They're already inherently geared for turn-by-turn decision and action... Multi-turn things generally happen in "oh crap!" circumstances - such as banking an Engineering Token one turn and then an Engineering Command the next to clear a Critical Card... Whereas Leia is just giving that striaght up to you.
You certainly see some 2-Command ships still want to follow that Archtype - Yavaris wants to Yavaris, Salvation wants to ConFire, and even a RaymusPelta can see the benefit of AFFMing alongside pushing 4-5 squadrons every turn.
But when you get into the Larger ships - that's when you start seeing the opposite of the Command 1 ships... You're already ahving to plot and plan 3 turns in advance, and you have the ability to stock and store tokens, so you do, and you lose out on that flexibility... Not to say you can't develop an Assault Cruiser who wants to do nothing but alternating Confires and Engineering to stay alive, but it starts to not feel as efficient.
So yes, Incidentally, she feels like an MSU Commander... Rather than by Design.
Regardless, you need to have a Plan with her, like with everyone else - only her plan extends into ship Archtype and ability, rather than just tactics.
That's really very well explained, thankyou.
On 17 July 2017 at 5:47 PM, BiggsIRL said:I think her best strength is the 4 squadrons per GR-75 activations, while keeping them just 23 points each (with Expanded Hangers). Keeps your squadron pushers cheep, meaning you can run them into the fight without worrying about feeding your opponent too many points. Also a cheap (or at least less token shenanigans) Yavaris.
Don't forget a cheap salvation build, she also gives a nice sudo ozzel to rebel MSU fleets
I really like here ability, and enjoyed playing it with a swarm at a recent Store Championship. Currently, I can't say enough positive things about her.