1 hour ago, Archangelspiv said:

So many likes for Scuurg isn't OP. I ran out of likes.

Consider me Oprah and you get a like, you get a like...EVERYONE GETS A LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regen, Kylo and Alpha Scouts... now lets talk NPE....

I find Scum Nym to be a fairly big NPE, at least with the VI, Genius Bomblet loadout. All you have to do is ram into your opponents ship every turn and it's free damage and they can't shoot you. The range of the bomb behind you overlaps plenty enough forward that unless you can do at minimum 1 speed faster than the Skurrrg, he is going to get you.

10 minutes ago, Shraken said:

I find Scum Nym to be a fairly big NPE, at least with the VI, Genius Bomblet loadout. All you have to do is ram into your opponents ship every turn and it's free damage and they can't shoot you. The range of the bomb behind you overlaps plenty enough forward that unless you can do at minimum 1 speed faster than the Skurrrg, he is going to get you.

it's not that easy

Scum Nym has no SLAM and a 4 forward at most. Since he does not ignore obstacles, it is actually not at all easy to just bury your face into your enemy's ample bosom, at least not without the rest of the squad having very good shots on you

Also, pro-tip, range 1 bombs are designed in such a way that the ship dropping them has to perform a 1 forward in order not to get hit by the bomb they dropped. This means that, if you're 1 ship base away from Nym's post-maneuver position, you're not getting hit.

Having played him this Saturday, it became readily apparently that the combo is nowhere near as easy as people make it out to be especially against anything that doesn't just have a traditional firing arc. Emon or homing missiles ending up doing most of the work in every match, apart from the one magical, fatal double-damage bomblett on rey

Just now, Shraken said:

I find Scum Nym to be a fairly big NPE, at least with the VI, Genius Bomblet loadout. All you have to do is ram into your opponents ship every turn and it's free damage and they can't shoot you. The range of the bomb behind you overlaps plenty enough forward that unless you can do at minimum 1 speed faster than the Skurrrg, he is going to get you.

I find SLAM'ing Sabine K's a big NPE too. dont have to fire a shot and the map is full of clusters, conners and thermals. All they have to do is get close to you, choose the move that will hit you with a bomb and bam, take at least 1 damage. All that before you even get to move.

The problem that people are having with Nym is that people are too used to taking 2 ship builds and dont have the firepower to kill him quick. You say Nym just rams and drops a bomb. If he rams he isnt getting an action. he has 1 unmodified green die. If you are too dumb not to focus fire him down then it's not the Scuurgs fault.

Are people lacking the tactical sense to position their lower PS ships in a way that they know what Nym will do, but dont make him pay for doing it?

you can kill Nym very quickly even with 2-ship builds

Rey + Norra will drop him in two rounds easy if you know what you're doing

That's why I specifically pointed out VI, Genius and SCUM Nym. He doesn't get hit by his own bombs. Can roll over obstacles and still be dropping them on you. If he catches you from behind and you can't outrun it. It's bumped to death from there on.

Remember that Genius Nym drops AFTER he moves so at PS10 he is moving last in the vaast majority of situations. He moves, hits you and drops bomblet and is immune to the damage himself.

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

it's not that easy

Scum Nym has no SLAM and a 4 forward at most. Since he does not ignore obstacles, it is actually not at all easy to just bury your face into your enemy's ample bosom, at least not without the rest of the squad having very good shots on you

Also, pro-tip, range 1 bombs are designed in such a way that the ship dropping them has to perform a 1 forward in order not to get hit by the bomb they dropped. This means that, if you're 1 ship base away from Nym's post-maneuver position, you're not getting hit.

Having played him this Saturday, it became readily apparently that the combo is nowhere near as easy as people make it out to be especially against anything that doesn't just have a traditional firing arc. Emon or homing missiles ending up doing most of the work in every match, apart from the one magical, fatal double-damage bomblett on rey

Yup, VI Bomblet Nym just seems to be an anwser to something that the meta has already answered - low hull arcdodgers.

2 minutes ago, Shraken said:

That's why I specifically pointed out VI, Genius and SCUM Nym. He doesn't get hit by his own bombs. Can roll over obstacles and still be dropping them on you. If he catches you from behind and you can't outrun it. It's bumped to death from there on.

Remember that Genius Nym drops AFTER he moves so at PS10 he is moving last in the vaast majority of situations. He moves, hits you and drops bomblet and is immune to the damage himself.

well, obviously? I'm talking about the same build because that's the build you want to use when Dengar is still such a huge pain in the ***

I don't think they really think about the NPE of some of these combos. It's just oh that's cool on paper but they don't seem to take into consideration just how unfun it is to play against them.

7 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

You say Nym just rams and drops a bomb. If he rams he isnt getting an action. he has 1 unmodified green die. If you are too dumb not to focus fire him down then it's not the Scuurgs fault.

Well that's the funny thing about bumping is it takes 1/2 to 1/3 of the list's firepower off of Nym.

So wow if only there were a system upgrade with which if you knew you were going to bump you could take an action before you moved and therefore not worry about missed actions hurting your offense

Or wow even better what if you could pick a different system upgrade and combo it with one of a few choices of turret, one of which gives you two guaranteed uncanceled hits every turn at range one, the other of which forces you to get 2 evades on consecutive rolls to avoid taking damage

Gee, it's almost like you know that 1 evade die doesn't go far, so your key defensive strategy is to deny shots by bumping. Which normally also means that you're not doing anything to the ship you bump, either, but that's where Genius bomblet generator does work for you.

3 minutes ago, Sparklelord said:

Well that's the funny thing about bumping is it takes 1/2 to 1/3 of the list's firepower off of Nym.

So wow if only there were a system upgrade with which if you knew you were going to bump you could take an action before you moved and therefore not worry about missed actions hurting your offense

Or wow even better what if you could pick a different system upgrade and combo it with one of a few choices of turret, one of which gives you two guaranteed uncanceled hits every turn at range one, the other of which forces you to get 2 evades on consecutive rolls to avoid taking damage

Gee, it's almost like you know that 1 evade die doesn't go far, so your key defensive strategy is to deny shots by bumping. Which normally also means that you're not doing anything to the ship you bump, either, but that's where Genius bomblet generator does work for you.

So relying on 2 unmodified red die to do the work on your 40 point ship is your strategy..... pro.... still pretty sure if you have bumped you still cant shoot the ship you bumped.

Others have posted how they have taken him out, so so given the data from this one thread, I am still pretty sure the skies still not falling down. This whole argument reminds me of when Thug life was a thing, look how that ended up.

For the record, Nym is the threat not Dengar as whacked as it sounds.

I ran the Denym combo with cad bane + clusters on Dengar at a store champ this weekend and while Dengar did damage, Nym was the main reason i won. Nym hits like a truck and bombs are insane on him. Dengar's strength can be evaded since its arc-related, but Nym is literally a range1 deathzone you have to avoid.
The only game ive lost that wasnt obviously dice luck (rolling no more than 2 hits with dengar over the course of 5 4die attacks and easily 8 more 3die attacks despite having Expertise + TL for 90% of those attacks is definitely dice issues not the list) my opponent butchered Nym before he did anything. Ironically thats the only time ive beaten Nym lists so far was gunning straight for his face (except the Ghost+Shuttle+Nym build i kinda had to take that ghost out first).

Nym's only real problem is while having 10hp, its only 1agi and UNLIKE the Jm5K he cant really do anything to make him beefier w/o sacrificing what makes him actually a threat. If he dumps the title for Latts Razi access, he has no Genius or AccCorrector/AdvSensor so hes no where near as a threat. If he takes Overclocked, for one a defensive focus on 1agi isnt that great and he loses his bomb threat. If you pincer him he usually dies right there. Yeah you take a bomb to the face and he attacks with either a 4die primary or autoblasters, but every time ive seen him get sandwiched between two ships he either dies or leaves in a really, really sorry state.
Course then you gotta deal with Dengar who's probably sitting right next to Nym

Definitely a powerhouse list, but after playing about 10 or so games with it i dont think its an autowin list unlike tripboats or Dengaroo was.

41 minutes ago, Shraken said:

I don't think they really think about the NPE of some of these combos. It's just oh that's cool on paper but they don't seem to take into consideration just how unfun it is to play against them.

But that is all opinion based. I have heard regen, bombs in general, ace style game play, the Stressbot, and many others described as NPEs. Yet I also hear voices defending most if not all of these. People like flying aces. Some like how regen feels. Even more devisive topics like the Jumpmaster and TLT are not universally considered NPEs. Heck, there are still those (myself included) who don't think pre-nerf Palp and x7 were a problem. It all comes down to personal opinion. You can consider it a personal NPE, but calling for FFG to consider if some people will find a new build unfun to play against is a bit much.

And I understand where you are coming from. I hate the stresshog and mule with a fiery passion. I think they are the worse NPE of the game. But I also know that I am in the minority. So, it is not on FFG to fix the problem. It is on me to limit how that problem can effect me.

I used to fly a very similar list 3 or 4 years ago. VI Kath with prox HLC,EU,, and Kavil with TLT, genius, EM and proton bombs. Dengar Nym is just an updated version

For the record, i think cad on Dengar is a bad/inefficient idea that directly clashes with Dengars actual arc locked strength

If you want to clean house with Denym, use DengarTel's dengar and the VI genius bomblett auto AC etcnym with an added shot of cruise and chips

You now have a comparable alpha to dengartel + nymvtricks und bombletts

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

You could literally not be more wrong if you tried.

Haven't you heard? That's the new meta on the forum. Gut reactions and personal opinions are the only currency allowed.

Also, I do believe you've just issued a challenge.

10 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

For the record, i think cad on Dengar is a bad/inefficient idea that directly clashes with Dengars actual arc locked strength

If you want to clean house with Denym, use DengarTel's dengar and the VI genius bomblett auto AC etcnym with an added shot of cruise and chips

You now have a comparable alpha to dengartel + nymvtricks und bombletts

Yeah, this is going to be the problem. It doesn't sacrifice anything on Dengar's end, and Nym still gets to bully at every range.

The answer is still to nuke Nym, and it's not going to be easy... But I'd still rather fly against this list than the new Rebel Junk/Jankyard lists popping up. **** Biggs.

20 minutes ago, robertg97 said:

I used to fly a very similar list 3 or 4 years ago. VI Kath with prox HLC,EU,, and Kavil with TLT, genius, EM and proton bombs. Dengar Nym is just an updated version

I remember that list.

I played against that list.

Good times!

As the title of this thread states, It will be the new powerhouse Meta list. It's easy to play and hard to beat because there is no weakness to it. Past weekend alone with only 10 tournaments, with mine included. Nym won 4 of the 10, and the ship (3 Loks, and Nym combined) were in the top 2 6 times. Lots of people will say it's because we are not familiar with playing against it. yes it will get better with time, because FFG will put something out that counters it, but right it will dominate and continue too. IMO

As some of you have stated it's no worse than pancakes or phantom pre nerf. But I disagree. With those lists pilots had to fly well and with those you felt like you could do something to counter it. Nym at PS=10, with AC and Autoturret there is no good counter available. It gives you minimum of 2 damage unavoidable every turn, most times barrel rolling out of arcs, and some times 4 damage with the bomblet when you re-roll with Cad, it gives you the feeling of did I just waste money on my past 10 waves, since only things in wave 11 have a chance.

4 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:

As the title of this thread states, It will be the new powerhouse Meta list.

Well, maybe. If everyone runs away from it like a punk instead of simply trying to shoot it down, that is.

On the contrary, Cad on Dengar is pretty good.

I landed those clusters right on someone's head every game. It was a direct influence to me killing a ghost in 2 combat rounds since there was no way i was getting arc on it for revenge shots, not to mention why the hell would he shoot Dengar in arc when Nym is also a target. Every time i couldnt sloop to keep arc, i was able to bomb with a 2turn instead.

Purposely having dengar lose his arc and dumping bombs on their head also has another perk: it causes people to have a conflict of interest. On one hand, Nym is the problem, but on the other Dengar isnt facing them. If they decide to splitfire and take the potshots on Dengar, they just lost as Nym literally can just tail them forever now.
Majority of my games i lost half points on dengar and a few i lost him entirely, but Nym just walked over everyone as a result.
Theres also defensive-mines if Dengar is in a pinch and Nym is alive: auto evade ftw. I had a TIE bomber fly behind a shieldless Dengar and targetlock me w/ ptorps, so i dropped a bomb and got my 2agi + 1 evade thanks to Nym. Didnt die as a result and he was forced to fly away as he couldnt tail me through the mines.

20 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:

As the title of this thread states, It will be the new powerhouse Meta list. It's easy to play and hard to beat because there is no weakness to it. Past weekend alone with only 10 tournaments, with mine included. Nym won 4 of the 10, and the ship (3 Loks, and Nym combined) were in the top 2 6 times. Lots of people will say it's because we are not familiar with playing against it. yes it will get better with time, because FFG will put something out that counters it, but right it will dominate and continue too. IMO

As some of you have stated it's no worse than pancakes or phantom pre nerf. But I disagree. With those lists pilots had to fly well and with those you felt like you could do something to counter it. Nym at PS=10, with AC and Autoturret there is no good counter available. It gives you minimum of 2 damage unavoidable every turn, most times barrel rolling out of arcs, and some times 4 damage with the bomblet when you re-roll with Cad, it gives you the feeling of did I just waste money on my past 10 waves, since only things in wave 11 have a chance.

I wish I could like this more.

Also, what would counter Nym? There's not many easy 'counters' to a well-rounded ship like that. Unless they start printing naturally PS 10 pilots or upgrade cards that read: "If you fire this weapon at a Scurrg bomber add 5 damage to the attack", I'm not sure what would reign them in. I'd say the Scurrg is another dramatically undercosted ship with too flexible options, an too little counterplay. JM5K 2.0.

21 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:

As the title of this thread states, It will be the new powerhouse Meta list. It's easy to play and hard to beat because there is no weakness to it. Past weekend alone with only 10 tournaments, with mine included. Nym won 4 of the 10, and the ship (3 Loks, and Nym combined) were in the top 2 6 times. Lots of people will say it's because we are not familiar with playing against it. yes it will get better with time, because FFG will put something out that counters it, but right it will dominate and continue too. IMO

As some of you have stated it's no worse than pancakes or phantom pre nerf. But I disagree. With those lists pilots had to fly well and with those you felt like you could do something to counter it. Nym at PS=10, with AC and Autoturret there is no good counter available. It gives you minimum of 2 damage unavoidable every turn, most times barrel rolling out of arcs, and some times 4 damage with the bomblet when you re-roll with Cad, it gives you the feeling of did I just waste money on my past 10 waves, since only things in wave 11 have a chance.

Where is this certainty coming from? You are still basing a heck of a lot on a few, iffy data points (SC's aren't the most reliable results due to variance, and we are still within a week of the wave dropping).

Just to throw that out there:

people will learn to play against it, and people will learn to fly it better.

1 hour ago, eagletsi111 said:

As the title of this thread states, It will be the new powerhouse Meta list. (1) It's easy to play and hard to beat because there is no weakness to it. (2) Past weekend alone with only 10 tournaments, with mine included. Nym won 4 of the 10, and the ship (3 Loks, and Nym combined) were in the top 2 6 times. (3) Lots of people will say it's because we are not familiar with playing against it. (4) yes it will get better with time, because FFG will put something out that counters it, but right it will dominate and continue too. IMO

As some of you have stated it's no worse than pancakes or phantom pre nerf. But I disagree. (5) With those lists pilots had to fly well and with those you felt like you could do something to counter it. Nym at PS=10, with AC and Autoturret there is no good counter available. (6) It gives you minimum of 2 damage unavoidable every turn (7), most times barrel rolling out of arcs (8), and some times 4 damage with the bomblet when you re-roll with Cad, it gives you the feeling of did I just waste money on my past 10 waves, since only things in wave 11 have a chance (9).

1. You do not have the credentials or empirical evidence to determine this.

2. It has several weaknesses, as posited previously in this thread, you have simply chosen to ignore them.

3. These ships were just released, of course they are popular. Simple saturation could easily account for these wins. Other folks not knowing how to answer them, as it's their first time seeing them, accounts for others (and I'd arguably say this is where you're coming from, just with a knee-jerk reaction reflex that hasn't been seen since the days of... well, almost every other new wave release, I guess.)

4. Because this is an accurate assessment.

5. Who are you, exactly?

6. False? Vader and Quickdraw can get PS 11 and take heavily modified Cruise Missiles? And that's just one example, using ships that aren't absolute shite in the meta-at-large (well, ok, I hate on Vader a lot, but that's apparently just me).

7. Except, you know, you can actively avoid it by flying better, knowing the dial, and knowing where the BR puts them... There are some builds that do different ranges better, but trade off on the auto-damage, so still manageable.

8. Sounds like a personal problem.

9. I mean, Dengar is actively in your list of concern. And K-Wings are still doing fine. And Rebel Junkyard is totally going to be a thing... Also, where are you getting VI (etc) from?

Just... let it go. Let the meta settle down over more than a weekend or two. Calm yourself and practice some more. Stop fighting the good fight, when only SaltMaster agrees with you, and he's, honestly, just there to throw salt on things, as far as I can tell.

9 hours ago, wurms said:

You cant ION him off the board because he has Engine upgrade to boost, while bombing you and turret shooting you, and while that is going on Dengar is killing you. How many times have you ion'd Miranda off the board? Exactly.

I've faced ps10 Scum Nym with ABT, AC, BG, Genius twice. In the first game I swarmed him and killed him in two rounds of shooting. I did take a bunch of damage from bombs and the ABT. But he died and I won the game.

The second game I hit him with ion from an aggressor turret and was walking him towards the edge. He escaped when I banked away to avoid a rock. I lost that game.

You're right that I've never walked Miranda off the board. I've never used ion against her because I haven't had ion turrets available before.

Nym is vulnerable to ion. Walking him off the board isn't the point. It's to control where he goes, where he can place a bomblet, and ensure you can position yourself to be in R1 or out of it as required.

I'm thinking he's on a small base specifically to make him vulnerable to a single ion instead of requiring ion bombs, missiles or two shots to control him.

11 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

1. You do not have the credentials or empirical evidence to determine this.

2. It has several weaknesses, as posited previously in this thread, you have simply chosen to ignore them.

3. These ships were just released, of course they are popular. Simple saturation could easily account for these wins. Other folks not knowing how to answer them, as it's their first time seeing them, accounts for others (and I'd arguably say this is where you're coming from, just with a knee-jerk reaction reflex that hasn't been seen since the days of... well, almost every other new wave release, I guess.)

4. Because this is an accurate assessment.

5. Who are you, exactly?

6. False? Vader and Quickdraw can get PS 11 and take heavily modified Cruise Missiles? And that's just one example, using ships that aren't absolute shite in the meta-at-large (well, ok, I hate on Vader a lot, but that's apparently just me).

7. Except, you know, you can actively avoid it by flying better, knowing the dial, and knowing where the BR puts them... There are some builds that do different ranged better, but trade off on the auto-damage, so still manageable.

8. Sounds like a personal problem.

9. I mean, Dengar is actively in your list of concern. And K-Wings are still doing fine. And Rebel Junkyard is totally going to be a thing... Also, where are you getting VI (etc) from?

Just... let it go. Let the meta settle down over more than a weekend or two. Calm yourself and practice some more. Stop fighting the good fight, when only SaltMaster agrees with you, and he's, honestly, just there to throw salt on things, as far as I can tell.

Heh, this made way more sense after I figured out you were answer the sentences before the numbers rather than after as I originally assumed.