Just now, eagletsi111 said:SC. Check out List Juggler
People are using it because it is new. Once the new shine wears off and people get use to it, it will likely decline. Also, Listjuggler isn't evidence that people are conceding that it is op.
My Prediction for the New Hot OP List: Dengar Nym. So how do we beat it
9 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:SC. Check out List Juggler
Also, I did check ListJuggler. If Nym/Dengar was op, it should be winning a substantial amount of SCs. But out of the 50 tournaments I checked out, only 2 Nym/Dengar lists were recorded as having won. That's 4% of the sample size. True, some tournaments weren't filled out, so we don't know what was flown. But that doesn't help your argument that Listhuggler is supporting your claims.
Sorry, bud, but you are making a mountain out of a molehill.
15 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:Check out List Juggler
What about it? Around 50% outside of top8. Pretty average performance considering all the quirks of LJ (such as people rarely posting their lists when they do badly). Check some other lists yourself.
Not saying it's bad, but it's far from #1.
Edited by Elavion
On 2017-07-20 at 8:00 PM, Ravncat said:Kill the ship with the better virtual action economy first, that's probably still dengar, as I haven't looked exactly at the lists involved.
With Dengar/Nym it really depends on what you have in your own squad. For example with 4xTLT agressors, i will probably go after Nym 1st if Dengar doesnt have Engine Upgrade. Nym is a TLT aggressor nightmare because once hes at range 1, hes glued there and you cant defend against his dmg.
On 04/08/2017 at 2:18 AM, SabineKey said:Also, I did check ListJuggler. If Nym/Dengar was op, it should be winning a substantial amount of SCs. But out of the 50 tournaments I checked out, only 2 Nym/Dengar lists were recorded as having won. That's 4% of the sample size. True, some tournaments weren't filled out, so we don't know what was flown. But that doesn't help your argument that Listhuggler is supporting your claims.
Sorry, bud, but you are making a mountain out of a molehill.
I believe that the OP scale is Dengar < Nym < Fair Ship Rebels, hence the lack of wins for Dengar/Nym.
If I'm Running RAC with Colzet, then Dengar gets blinded and stays that way, then Nym dies to a superior turret.
Ion turrets (particularly on a Ghost) easily shut Nym down, and have a good amount of utility against Dengar too.
He's not a pilot that scares me, because he has inherent limits in the frame (agi 1, relatively poor dial and a lack of *good* repositioning options). Compare that to any of the previous actually OP jank like Dengaroo, Paratanni, etc ad you'll find he's not so bad.
7 minutes ago, Astech said:I believe that the OP scale is Dengar < Nym < Fair Ship Rebels, hence the lack of wins for Dengar/Nym.
If I'm Running RAC with Colzet, then Dengar gets blinded and stays that way, then Nym dies to a superior turret.
Ion turrets (particularly on a Ghost) easily shut Nym down, and have a good amount of utility against Dengar too.
He's not a pilot that scares me, because he has inherent limits in the frame (agi 1, relatively poor dial and a lack of *good* repositioning options). Compare that to any of the previous actually OP jank like Dengaroo, Paratanni, etc ad you'll find he's not so bad.
Mostly agree (not sure I'd rank Nym higher than Dengar, but that could be a lack of personal experience). I am actually way more worried about Fair Ship Rebels than I am any list that contains a Scrugg right now.
Why not just 1 turn nym with alpha strike??? He is 1 agility, is vi stappled to him??? If not it's easier to alpha him off board. Also TLT should destroy him unless nym is obstructed tlt needs 2 hits and nym can't evade it.
Nyms dial is good how could anyone say his dial is not that good. Lolo
Its at the very least good enough and with advanced sensors and genius he bumps you and drops bomblet you are at range 1 and he ignores bomb.
He can barrel roll before he moves then drop bomb or move then drop bomblet.
19 minutes ago, Gotham88Knight said:is vi stappled to him???
yes it is.
Dengar first, then you deal with Nym from as far away as you can. If his bombs cannot reach you they wont hurt you and his evade dice dont really matter even at range 3.
Well I faced it again, and beat it. Not because of great flying, but because the other guy gave me Nym as a primary target. I kill him with my 4 empire ships in 2 turns. Dengar nearly killed my entire list, but I got a few crits which were key. One of them Blinded, and was able to beat him. Still convinced if the other guy flew better, I don't think I could have won. I'll keep trying. But I'm not flying meta lists, I refused to fly stuff that is OP. Yes I could fly Kylo and another ship and blind Dengar, but I don't think the game should be that unbalanced, that you need special lists to beat other lists. You should have a chance with a take on all comers list.
It's still an NPE list for sure.
Edited by eagletsi1112 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:It's still an NPE list for sure.
Why? What made his list an NPE for you in this game?
10 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:Well I faced it again, and beat it. Not because of great flying, but because the other guy gave me Nym as a primary target. I kill him with my 4 empire ships in 2 turns. Dengar nearly killed my entire list, but I got a few crits which were key. One of them Blinded, and was able to beat him. Still convinced if the other guy flew better, I don't think I could have won. I'll keep trying. But I'm not flying meta lists, I refused to fly stuff that is OP. Yes I could fly Kylo and another ship and blind Dengar, but I don't think the game should be that unbalanced, that you need special lists to beat other lists. You should have a chance with a take on all comers list.
So you beat your bugbear. Again. With a non-meta, non-OP all comers list...
...so what's the problem here again, exactly?
Edited by FTS Gecko1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:Why? What made his list an NPE for you in this game?
In this game not so much because the guy flew so poorly, but the fact that you cannot stop his bombing and the fact that he can always barrel roll and shoot you with AC and AT. For a possible 4 damage that you cannot stop, even if he bumps. It seems like I don't even get to maneuver sometimes. Staying at range 3 is just boring. The game is supposed to be about dog fighting, and frankly Nym is the complete counter to that in every way possible than previous ships from before. He has better primary, can barrel roll, has epts, and a great dial. Those are just to many advantages, which outclasses any of the older ships by leaps and bounds. Power Creep severe
Edited by eagletsi1112 hours ago, eagletsi111 said:In this game not so much because the guy flew so poorly, but the fact that you cannot stop his bombing and the fact that he can always barrel roll and shoot you with AC and AT. For a possible 4 damage that you cannot stop, even if he bumps. It seems like I don't even get to maneuver sometimes. Staying at range 3 is just boring. The game is supposed to be about dog fighting, and frankly Nym is the complete counter to that in every way possible than previous ships from before. He has better primary, can barrel roll, has epts, and a great dial. Those are just to many advantages, which outclasses any of the older ships by leaps and bounds. Power Creep severe
So... the problem is that you lo and behold have to adapt and change your playstyle (stay at range 2-3) to beat him? When using a list naturally vulnerable to bombs?
Am I the only one who prefers a tactical challenge every now and then over a stagnant metagame?
Sure, it would be nice if the game had absolutely no matchup dependence, but a) the core game supported counter-listing from day 1 because Pilot Skill exists and b) It's impossible to build a PvP game with deck/list/character customisation and not have rock/paper/scisors at all.
P.S. Nym doesn't really have an EPT slot. He's just effectively native ps10. (at least right now. Might change when the PS race ends.
Edited by ElavionOn 16/07/2017 at 2:22 PM, FTS Gecko said:Stop overreacting, for a start.
Quite ironic in hindsight. 
1 hour ago, Elavion said:
P.S. Nym doesn't really have an EPT slot. He's just effectively native ps10. (at least right now. Might change when the PS race ends.
I wouldn't be too hopeful for that. While there have been lulls, the PS race has been around for a long time. I doubt there will be a definitive end to it in this game.