Really Interesting. Central Texas is going to have an SC next weekend, so we'll see what turns up to the event. The Avenger combination has already gotten out of there and I've seen at least two guys run it locally, which is not say what the Imperial players in San Antonio are up to.

If people are dropping 22 point bids, that will obviously really help out the combo. I'd be curious if something like @PT106's old dual-ISD build might be revamped. There's a high activation count, and two ISDs take up so much real estate that they can block in a lot of ships, which in turn sets up an Avenger Boarding party combo, so it is possible that it doesn't have to rely on first player. And I think that's the catch: not getting caught up in the toilet bowl spiral of bidding and then outbidding.

I can tell you one thing that would work against a first player Boarding Troops/Avenger: a Rieekan ship list. Block off Avenger's approach to your main ships long enough for the Boarding Troopers not to matter. Alright, you'd like to board my flotilla. Excellent.

3 hours ago, BiggsIRL said:

2) Targeting Scrambler - You need to be in close range to pull the trick off, and guess where Targeting Scrambler works?

3) Not following up the hit - Yes, you just exhausted all of their tokens, and hit them hard. But if they survived it, you've burned your one trick this game.

This. I had an BT, Avenger, ISD 1 close range shooting at my Demo with 1/2/0/1 shields left, and Targeting Scramblers nearby. Demo survived even after the ram due to targeting scramblers. He rolled average, but targeting scramblers shut it down.

Long live the 'Dictor!

9 hours ago, BiggsIRL said:

I took this combo to two different Store Championships this weekend. Let me tell you when it doesn't work:

1) Lando - Sure Lando isn't a guarantee, but he turned a big burst of damage into a pathetic blip.

2) Targeting Scrambler - You need to be in close range to pull the trick off, and guess where Targeting Scrambler works?

3) Not following up the hit - Yes, you just exhausted all of their tokens, and hit them hard. But if they survived it, you've burned your one trick this game.

This is not Demo triple tap. This is a once per game hit of ~8 damage, not a Ram, 6+APT (Intel the Brace!), Ram, 6+ APT (Intel the Brace Again if you haven't used it!), 6+APT, Ram, Ram.

1) Lando MIGHT save your medium ship... but it will still be hurting hard and bait for anything near by, Still your best chance I agree.

2) Targeting Scrambler - Again I absolutely agree... pity its attached to an interdictor which is still too **** expensive for what It can do. Ultimately your response is that I will win by dying more slowly.... since you clearly don't have the firepower to respond having spent your points on said interdictor...

3) I have no idea how you figure this... They've used their one trick to basically mangle your big scary target... they still have a fully operational avenger ISD which is just as scary as its always been just that they exhausted their 3 point upgrade...

Every single ISD in the last two store champs has been an Avenger. Lots of ways now to completely negate defences.

Expanded rack raiders seem to be great fire support now as well. they are cheap enough to bring multiples, and if your opponent has his hands full dodging Avengers front arc chances are the Raiders will be able to set up some good shots.

Well I guess I can never use Avenger again. **** it people, stop ruining my favorite toys by making them popular.

Alright Avenger, time to start hunting you down.

10 hours ago, Vergilius said:

Really Interesting. Central Texas is going to have an SC next weekend, so we'll see what turns up to the event. The Avenger combination has already gotten out of there and I've seen at least two guys run it locally, which is not say what the Imperial players in San Antonio are up to.

Nothing to see here in San Antonio, move along

6 hours ago, ripper998 said:

Nothing to see here in San Antonio, move along

Done.

1 hour ago, Ardaedhel said:

Done.

NOOOOOOOOOOO!

My AAR on the day for those interested

I love how easy some people seem to think dodging a well played ISDs front arc is....

The ISD with boarding troopers is significant because its now pretty reliable at one shotting things that could usually expect to take a round of fire and get to hit back and then escape. Particularly in this band I think is Admonition and the assault frigate.

I'm glad to see the ISD return as a major threat.

Still a lot of water to go under the bridge of course with the FAQ and wave 6, but I definitely think Avenger and boarding troopers is something you will need to have a plan for.

Imps definitely seem to have an edge at present with defence suppression. Also external racks on Raiders makes for a very good cheap striker to back up your Avenger. If your opponent is desperately dodging Avenger the raiders have a much higher chance of getting their hits in without getting killed.

This drastically changes the combat equation for a lot of rebel staples that were relatively reliable. if you run a nice fat target the BT combo is going to love charging it and taking it down. To counter it you could mirror match it and try to beat it in the bid for first. You could use Riekan and ensure you get your admo shot off anyway. or you can use lots of bombers and long range shooters with intel officers. Any way its going to be messy.

7 minutes ago, Ophion said:

I love how easy some people seem to think dodging a well played ISDs front arc is....

Its perspective.

I fly a lot of mc30s so its easy dodging ISD front arcs.

I flew a 3-Interdictor fleet against Avenger/Boarding Troopers.

While I did eventually lose one of my ships, Targeting Scramblers did help a great deal. I had Engineering Captains on all ships and Tarkin as commander - so I was also generating 8 engineering points on every ship when needed.

Question: If more than one Targeting Scrambler is in range, can they both be used?

What Gink said. I've been flying a lot of Madine.

6 minutes ago, Democratus said:

Question: If more than one Targeting Scrambler is in range, can they both be used?

I am almost sure that yes

37 minutes ago, Democratus said:

I flew a 3-Interdictor fleet against Avenger/Boarding Troopers.

While I did eventually lose one of my ships, Targeting Scramblers did help a great deal. I had Engineering Captains on all ships and Tarkin as commander - so I was also generating 8 engineering points on every ship when needed.

Question: If more than one Targeting Scrambler is in range, can they both be used?

Did you take avenger in turn? Im actually surprised you lost a ship. How man instances of targetting scrambler were you running?

32 minutes ago, Visovics said:

I am almost sure that yes

Definetely can.

My friend won our store champs with a motti/3x interdictor list right before wave sax dropped. Three instances of scrambler plus interdictor (4 per turn!) and formation flying. Apparently he took a demo roll from 9 to 1.

44 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

Did you take avenger in turn? Im actually surprised you lost a ship. How man instances of targetting scrambler were you running?

I was running 3 scramblers. I did manage to bring down Avenger late game. Had my opponent been using Motti rather than Sloane I might not have.

One ship going down is an inevitability, I think. There's only so much fire you can mitigate even with interdictors.

Sloane squadrons contributed greatly to the loss of my ship.

21 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

My friend won our store champs with a motti/3x interdictor list right before wave sax dropped.

4 hours ago, Ophion said:

I love how easy some people seem to think dodging a well played ISDs front arc is....

The point is not that it's easy (it's a very high skill-cap on both sides of the ISD/MC30 matchup). The point is that nothing about this wave has made that matchup more difficult for those of us already flying MC30/CR90 MSUs.

It has pretty much always been a death sentence for an MC30 to eat a full-up close-range ISD front arc, assuming a fairly standard XI7/LS build on the ISD. People who have been playing MC30s in this matchup for a year and half are already pretty adept at doing so.

The thing is, yes, a single MC30 is marginally worse off eating the Boardvenger front arc at close than XI7, because it loses the single shield it could otherwise have redirected to. Mon Mothma loses even more, because she doesn't get her single reroll either.

But the ISD2/LS/XI7/GT is a dramatically bigger threat overall to the swarm than the ISD1/LS/Avenger/BT, thanks to its much larger threat area and potential to one-shot two ships in a turn, which is what you really need to be able to do with an ISD against a swarm. It is impossible to force a well-navigated MC30 into close range of an ISD's front arc. It is very possible to force it into medium range.

Jerjerrod was a much bigger boost to the ISD in this matchup than anything in Wave 6, as far as I've seen.

14 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Its perspective.

I fly a lot of mc30s so its easy dodging ISD front arcs.

Assuming you have more activations and/or first player...

Just now, beefcake4000 said:

Assuming you have more activations and/or first player...

Which is likely, given that you're comparing an 80ish-point ship to a 130ish-point ship.

-

8 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

But the ISD2/LS/XI7/GT is a dramatically bigger threat overall to the swarm than the ISD1/LS/Avenger/BT, thanks to its much larger threat area and potential to one-shot two ships in a turn, which is what you really need to be able to do with an ISD against a swarm. It is impossible to force a well-navigated MC30 into close range of an ISD's front arc. It is very possible to force it into medium range.

Jerjerrod was a much bigger boost to the ISD in this matchup than anything in Wave 6, as far as I've seen.

While I do love me some jerrijod what you're neglecting in your example is the maximum damage output. Sure the ISDII with gunnery CAN one shot two ships... assuming they are both light ships like corvettes etc. Against a whale or an Mc30 all you will do is spray damage to both targets and kill neither the new combo will absolutely guarantee you a kill against one of those which is far more useful for the scoring structure

And for those claiming that you can dodge the arc I have to wonder if you've looked at IROs post where his list includes eight activations and a huge bid... if you're planning on having the luxury of moving after that ISD in order to dodge its arcs so easily you must be running massive activations on an even more enormous bid... otherwise he has last first against you and you're dead.

I do wonder if this is one of those combos you need to experience at the hands of a good player before you can properly understand it though.

1 minute ago, Ardaedhel said:

Which is likely, given that you're comparing an 80ish-point ship to a 130ish-point ship.

No need for theory hammer. Irokentics won the comp with 8 activations... how does that compare to what you normally run? I know I've not run anything like that