Just now, beefcake4000 said:

While I do love me some jerrijod what you're neglecting in your example is the maximum damage output. Sure the ISDII with gunnery CAN one shot two ships... assuming they are both light ships like corvettes etc. Against a whale or an Mc30 all you will do is spray damage to both targets and kill neither the new combo will absolutely guarantee you a kill against one of those which is far more useful for the scoring structure

And for those claiming that you can dodge the arc I have to wonder if you've looked at IROs post where his list includes eight activations and a huge bid... if you're planning on having the luxury of moving after that ISD in order to dodge its arcs so easily you must be running massive activations on an even more enormous bid... otherwise he has last first against you and you're dead.

I do wonder if this is one of those combos you need to experience at the hands of a good player before you can properly understand it though.

An ISD2 with XI7 and Leading Shots will one-shot an MC30 from medium more often than not; with GT, it can do that twice in the same turn. Admonition pushes that down to about 50-50.

Iro had 7 activations, and freely admits that his fleet will suffer in a bomber environment, and that he did not face a bomber list in this tournament. His list is fantastic assuming you don't have to deal with squadrons.

A list that makes significant sacrifices in one area, gambling on not facing that particular threat, and then doesn't face that particular threat, is always going to do well. I'm saying that it's not going to be a consistently performant fleet, nor is it something to get all up in arms over one good showing. Which is not to take anything away from Ken's victory (congrats, btw, Ken): part of his victory was making an informed assessment that he was unlikely to face a heavy bomber force and building accordingly.

Just now, beefcake4000 said:

No need for theory hammer. Irokentics won the comp with 8 activations... how does that compare to what you normally run? I know I've not run anything like that

Seven. Matches my activations and will one-shot one of my four MC30's immediately before losing the ISD, assuming he adequately protected all of those Gozantis and Raiders that my shrimp are specifically built to one-shot. So... I like my chances.

But I'm not here for a pissing contest. I've never faced Ken, and likely as not he would whoop me 1v1. I'm here to try and temper the furor that keeps popping up on these forums every time someone finds a new good combo.

1 minute ago, Ardaedhel said:

An ISD2 with XI7 and Leading Shots will one-shot an MC30 from medium more often than not. Admonition pushes that down to about 50-50.

Iro had 7 activations, and freely admits that his fleet will suffer in a bomber environment, and that he did not face a bomber list in this tournament. His list is fantastic assuming you don't have to deal with squadrons.

A list that makes significant sacrifices in one area, gambling on not facing that particular threat, and then doesn't face that particular threat, is always going to do well. I'm saying that it's not going to be a consistently performant fleet, nor is it something to get all up in arms over one good showing. Which is not to take anything away from Ken's victory (congrats, btw, Ken): part of his victory was making an informed assessment that he was unlikely to face a heavy bomber force and building accordingly.

Seven. Matches my activations and will one-shot one of my four MC30's immediately before losing the ISD, assuming he adequately protected all of those Gozantis and Raiders that my shrimp are specifically built to one-shot. So... I like my chances.

But I'm not here for a pissing contest. I've never faced Ken, and likely as not he would whoop me 1v1. I'm here to try and temper the furor that keeps popping up on these forums every time someone finds a new good combo.

My bad, you're right it was 7.

Don't get me wrong I'm not dissing the list at all, just making observations as to the state of the new meta. Obviously this is heavily impacted by local context.

Im not super convinced that he would suffer to bomber lists post FAQ either but time will tell on that one.

We don't see the sort of mc30 swarms that you are talking about so fair enough on that one, I agree that Iro has done well to identify a hole in our builds and make something to fill it up

45 minutes ago, beefcake4000 said:

Don't get me wrong I'm not dissing the list at all, just making observations as to the state of the new meta. Obviously this is heavily impacted by local context.

Im not super convinced that he would suffer to bomber lists post FAQ either but time will tell on that one.

It can't be the new meta AND highly variable in local meta. The Rebel bomber lists I typically run would love to face his fleet - not saying I'd win, just would love the opportunity to make his fleet suffer for its lack of squadrons. Or even my regional 3x MC30s with Madine and H9 Turbolasers that would be one shotting any Gozanti and probably any Raider that was still in range when it activated. Like I tell every new player - or any experienced player that asks me for list advice - fleet theory is only about 30% of the game. The rest is how you fly.

I believe a dedicated bomber fleet would take it down easy.

I've been a big fan of Ard's mc30 swarm for a while now! And yeah id definitely lose the ISD to them too.