I don't know if we've covered this one today, but it crossed my mind as I went through the Hammerhead Expansion...

Scenario:

I have a Hammerhead Corvette.

It is equipped with Ruthless Strategists.

I fire at a Ciena Ree who happens to have a z-95 Engaging her.

Obviously, my single die attack is cancelled (due to the Obstruction she carries along with her)...

- But does a Cancelled attack count as an 'attack' - since the trigger for Ruthless Strategists is a target you have attacked......

I believe it does ... You progress through at least the first step of the attack pattern (Declare target)...

But does anyone have any thoughts on the subject?

I do not agree, just because of the implications. If this were the intended interpretation, RS could be used on any squadron in an arc at any range. Remember that there is no restriction preventing me from declaring anything on the board as a target of my attack--that attack just gets canceled immediately for lack of an attack pool. There is mechanically no difference between the attack being cancelled because you lost your only die due to obstruction, and the attack being cancelled because your target is outside of blue range and you only have blue dice.

8 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

I do not agree, just because of the implications. If this were the intended interpretation, RS could be used on any squadron in an arc at any range. Remember that there is no restriction preventing me from declaring anything on the board as a target of my attack--that attack just gets canceled immediately for lack of an attack pool. There is mechanically no difference between the attack being cancelled because you lost your only die due to obstruction, and the attack being cancelled because your target is outside of blue range and you only have blue dice.

Interesting, and I certainly start to agree with you with that... One of those, "No trees here, just a lousy forest." deals that I couldn't see past

The next procedural question then is, how far do we go through the attack before its an attack?

Because, you know, someone's going to at least try to declare that their Scatter "cancels" the attack (it doesn't, but anyway) and you can't use Ruthless Strats on it...

Because people are like that.

Yeah.

I can't really find a rules basis for whether "attacked" means "completed an attack" or "executed any steps of an attack," but I lean toward the former.

I think when an attack is "canceled" like from obstruction, it didn't happen. (Like things in Vegas)

When an attack is scattered, it cancels attack dice .

Quote

Step 2: Roll Attack Dice: Gather attack dice to form the attack pool and roll those dice. Gather only the dice that are appropriate for the range of the attack as indicated by the icons on the range ruler.

◊ If the defender is a ship, gather the attack dice indicated in the attacking hull zone’s or squadron’s battery armament.

◊ If the defender is a squadron, gather the attack dice indicated in the attacker’s anti-squadron armament.

◊ If the attacker cannot gather any dice appropriate for the range of the attack, the attack is canceled.

This is the only place in which the rules cancel attacks. After the attack dice are rolled, the attack continues through the steps to completion, even if no damage is dealt, or dice are in the attack pool.

14 hours ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

I think when an attack is "canceled" like from obstruction, it didn't happen. (Like things in Vegas)

When an attack is scattered, it cancels attack dice .

I agree with this, I think that you "attacked" something if you completed all the steps of the attack.

The scatter cancells the attack dice, but doesn't prevent you from resolving the Resolve Damage Step, you just total 0 damage and proceed.

at the point that scatter happens...you technically have completed your side of the attack...

Thought of it in the shower this morning:

RRG 2 ATTACK said:

To perform an attack with a squadron or ship, resolve the following steps:

1. Declare target

2. Roll attack dice

3. Resolve attack effects

4. Spend defense tokens

5. Resolve damage

6. Declare additional squadron target

So, did you accomplish those steps? An attack was performed.

Did you fail to accomplish those steps? No attack was performed.

On the question of scatter canceling attacks: no, all of the steps of the attack are still resolved. Yes, all of your dice are cancelled, but scatter resolves after the check in step 2 bullet point 3:

RRG 2 ATTACK said:

◊ If the attacker cannot gather any dice appropriate for the range of the attack, the attack is canceled.

So even though scatter removes all of the attacker's attack dice, it does so after the point at which having no attack dice cancels the attack itself. So the rest of the steps of the attack are still resolved... Just, nothing happens.

Usually.

Also, just to head off the objection: step 6. Declare Additional Squadron Target happens every attack . It just has a conditional at the very beginning specifying that you only actually do anything for it on ship-to-squadron attacks.

Did you roll dice?

if yes then you attacked.

If no then no attack made.

On 7/15/2017 at 4:56 PM, Drasnighta said:

I don't know if we've covered this one today, but it crossed my mind as I went through the Hammerhead Expansion...

Scenario:

I have a Hammerhead Corvette.

It is equipped with Ruthless Strategists.

I fire at a Ciena Ree who happens to have a z-95 Engaging her.

Obviously, my single die attack is cancelled (due to the Obstruction she carries along with her)...

- But does a Cancelled attack count as an 'attack' - since the trigger for Ruthless Strategists is a target you have attacked......

I believe it does ... You progress through at least the first step of the attack pattern (Declare target)...

But does anyone have any thoughts on the subject?

Rats. Came here to re-ask this question. Found that I'd already answered it.

Getting senile way too early.

Just now, Ardaedhel said:

Rats. Came here to re-ask this question. Found that I'd already answered it.

Getting senile way too early.

Kids do that to you.

To extend this question, what happens in the following scenario.

A Victory class star destroyer with ruthless strategists flaks out of one of its arcs that is facing the Solar Corona board edge. On its attack at an x-wing engaged by a tie bomber, it rolls an accuracy. Per my understanding, we've already passed stage 2 (Roll Attack Dice) and also the point where the attack can be cancelled. But now we remove the accuracy from Solar Corona. There are no longer any die in the pool, so we can safely skip through the rest of the steps doing nothing in each. Can I use Ruthless Strategists?

I rolled dice, but then my pool was reduced to 0. Solar Corona takes effect before step 3 of the attack rules. Does that imply its still in step 2? If so, does that imply my pool is reduced to no dice after removing the accuracy (and thus I can't trigger Ruthless Strategists)?

I think that because you assembled and rolled an attack pool then an attack has been performed and Ruthless Strategists will trigger.

I believe the text of Solar Corona supports this as it's a "while attacking" effect. Therefore you performed an attack but inflicted no damage. Is this conceptually any different from having all your dice removed by evade tokens?

3 hours ago, Rikash said:

To extend this question, what happens in the following scenario.

A Victory class star destroyer with ruthless strategists flaks out of one of its arcs that is facing the Solar Corona board edge. On its attack at an x-wing engaged by a tie bomber, it rolls an accuracy. Per my understanding, we've already passed stage 2 (Roll Attack Dice) and also the point where the attack can be cancelled. But now we remove the accuracy from Solar Corona. There are no longer any die in the pool, so we can safely skip through the rest of the steps doing nothing in each. Can I use Ruthless Strategists?

I rolled dice, but then my pool was reduced to 0. Solar Corona takes effect before step 3 of the attack rules. Does that imply its still in step 2? If so, does that imply my pool is reduced to no dice after removing the accuracy (and thus I can't trigger Ruthless Strategists)?

There's only one decision point at which the attack can be cancelled , and that's when you go to gather your dice pool, before rolling it. Having no dice left in your dice pool after having rolled it doesn't cancel the attack, meaning it still happened, meaning you can still proc RS.

The cards, for reference: