Say you were to build two squads, one with 5 X-wings and the other with 10 tie fighters. No points limit, your only goal is to make it as fun and balanced as possible. Assuming all pilots and upgrades are available with no physical card restrictions, what would you do?
5 X-Wings vs 10 TIE Fighters
I'd run all 10 named TIE pilots with Crack shot on the 4 with EPT slot. 161 points. The x-wings can be pointed out to match. Probably start with luke, wedge, wes, Biggs and Tarn add upgrades to taste.
What's the purpose of the question? Are you trying to set up a game for some new players or something like that?
"As fun and balanced as possible" is an extremely vague and complicated requirement to satisfy.
"No points limit" makes things get really weird, fast, because this game is based on points limits. It also makes the question quite broad and difficult to narrow down to a satisfying answer.
I'd suggest clarifying your goals and finding a point limit you'd be happy with. An X-Wing ranges in cost from 21 points (naked Rookie Pilot) to around 45 points (fully tricked-out Wedge). A TIE Fighter ranges from 12 points (naked Academy Pilot) to 26 points (Howlrunner with Expertise and a Shield or Engine Upgrade). Based on that, if we take an "average" x-wing as costing around 30 points and an "average" TIE as costing around 15-20 points, I think we can shoot for 150 points per side as a good limit. That will let you fit in a variety of named pilots for both sides while still having meaningful restrictions. From there, you can start thinking about how exactly you want to build the squads.
That's a hard question, since the typical purpose of squad building is to make your squad as unbalanced as possible in your favor. You should narrow down your requirements, like do you want to run all base generics? All named pilots? Kit them all out, or keep them all stripped down? The more pilot abilities and synergizing cards you throw in, the harder it will be to force a balance between the two squads, because then most of the balance comes down to how the players utilize the tool box you're providing.
It should be 6vs12. That way you get in a full squadron of TIEs.
I'd do this and play it a few times. I think it would be fun, but I'm not sure about balance; I'm afraid that the TIEs might have too much of an advantage even though the point values of the lists are quite close. You could always weaken them a bit if that turns out to be the case.
Luke Skywalker (28)
Push the Limit (3)
R2-D2 (4)
Vectored Thrusters (2)
Biggs Darklighter (25)
R4-D6 (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)
Wedge Antilles (29)
Predator (3)
BB-8 (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)
Wes Janson (29)
Predator (3)
R3-A2 (2)
Integrated Astromech (0)
"Hobbie" Klivian (25)
R2-D6 (1)
Push the Limit (3)
Vectored Thrusters (2)
Total: 162
View in Yet Another Squad Builder
"Howlrunner" (18)
Swarm Tactics (2)
"Scourge" (17)
Swarm Leader (3)
Shield Upgrade (4)
"Youngster" (15)
Rage (1)
"Mauler Mithel" (17)
Crack Shot (1)
"Backstabber" (16)
"Night Beast" (15)
"Wampa" (14)
"Chaser" (14)
Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Crack Shot (1)
Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Crack Shot (1)
Total: 167
Keep em generic so there are less upgrades to track!
10 Obsidians vs 5 Red Squadron Pilots with R2 astromechs.
I think you want a decent mix of generic and named. Moving 10 TIE Fighters that are all at different PS would really suck.
3,4,5,5,6,6,6,7,7,8 isn't that hard. It's just 6 different PS activation points.
Besides half the fun is watching your opponent's head catch on fire as he tries to keep track of 10 different pilot abilities.
8 minutes ago, Arschbombe said:Besides half the fun is watching your opponent's head catch on fire as he tries to keep track of 10 different pilot abilities.
That's assuming your own head doesn't catch fire first...
Just now, haslo said:That's assuming your own head doesn't catch fire first...
Either you're a dedicated TIE Pilot and you own 10 TIEs or you're not. If you're not ready for next-level swarming, then you're not ready to fly 10 TIEs.
10 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:10 Obsidians vs 5 Red Squadron Pilots with R2 astromechs.
5 rookies vs 4 academy and 4 obsidian, all naked, just as God intended.
On 7/14/2017 at 7:25 PM, EdgeOfDreams said:What's the purpose of the question? Are you trying to set up a game for some new players or something like that?
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say they probably have 5 starter sets to play with, and are just going to do any pilots/upgrades they don't phyiscally have digitally.
You could try to have a thematic-style Battle of Yavin, with Luke, Wedge, Biggs, Porkins, and Garven against Mauler, Backstabber, Chaser, Dark Curse, and a bunch of Black Squadron Pilots with various EPTs (to help give all the TIEs unique personality)! Give all the X-Wings Proton Torps, Guidance Chips, and the droids that go with the pilots (use Wookieepedia to help)!
I also like @Helias de Nappo's suggestion!
On 7/14/2017 at 7:25 PM, EdgeOfDreams said:What's the purpose of the question? Are you trying to set up a game for some new players or something like that?
"As fun and balanced as possible" is an extremely vague and complicated requirement to satisfy."No points limit" makes things get really weird, fast, because this game is based on points limits. It also makes the question quite broad and difficult to narrow down to a satisfying answer.
I'd suggest clarifying your goals and finding a point limit you'd be happy with. An X-Wing ranges in cost from 21 points (naked Rookie Pilot) to around 45 points (fully tricked-out Wedge). A TIE Fighter ranges from 12 points (naked Academy Pilot) to 26 points (Howlrunner with Expertise and a Shield or Engine Upgrade). Based on that, if we take an "average" x-wing as costing around 30 points and an "average" TIE as costing around 15-20 points, I think we can shoot for 150 points per side as a good limit. That will let you fit in a variety of named pilots for both sides while still having meaningful restrictions. From there, you can start thinking about how exactly you want to build the squads.
More specifically I am trying to gather data as a bit of a thought experiment in designing large games/scenarios, and get different viewpoints on what makes for both a fun and balanced experience (and whether it's even really possible to balance 5 X-wings vs double the number of ties while maintaining a real point balance). The ship types and numbers don't really mean that much, they are just numbers that I own of these particular ships and thus I went with that.
played a big 4-player game with 250+ points per player and all 4 rebel/imperial huge ships yesterday with a few custom rules as part of the project. was a good time and very informative, but still interested in other opinions
8 hours ago, Effenhoog said:... was a good time and very informative, but still interested in other opinions
I also own 10 TIE fighters, only 3 core sets though not 5, and 2 come with the Gozanti.
Wedge Antilles (29)
Outmaneuver (3)
Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6)
R7-T1 (3)
Integrated Astromech (0)
Luke Skywalker (28)
Expertise (4)
Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6)
R2-D2 (4)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Biggs Darklighter (25)
R5-D8 (3)
Integrated Astromech (0)
Red Squadron Pilot (23)
Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6)
Targeting Astromech (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
Red Squadron Pilot (23)
Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6)
Targeting Astromech (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
Total: 177
View in Yet Another Squad Builder
"Howlrunner" (18) + Swarm Leader (3)
"Scourge" (17) + Swarm Tactics (2)
"Youngster" (15) + Daredevil (3)
7x Black Squadron Pilot (14) + Push the Limit (3)
Total: 177
10x Academy Pilot (12)
Total: 120
5x Red Squadron Pilot (23) + R2 Astromech (1) + Integrated Astromech (0)
Total: 120
Whoa, so many people getting their math wrong, but yes, these lists for someone new to the game.