So the most recent L5RLive showed that going 2nd on the first turn nets you an extra fate to start.

What are people's opinions on how powerful going first is? I always felt it was an advantage, but with the new rule reveal, is this still the case?

In the conflict phase, I didn't really feel like choosing first, especially when there is no fate on rings, was that big of an advantage. However, I'm guessing most decks will take two actions and pass turn 1, so the first player will usually get that fate first.

I would rather go 2nd to start the game, especially as Dragon.

Go 2nd, get the extra fate. Try to pass first, get the extra fate. Declare the last conflict and put some fate on a ring to buff a guy. Go first next turn, declare the first conflict and get any extra fate on a ring.

It still is an advantage, both when trying to break the Stronghold before your opponent does the same and for the higher chance to get the extra Fate in the first round. It is a rule I appreciate a lot, since it solves one of the gripes I had with the rules for this game.

Shu2jack is right though: some clans lose less than others from going second, so it might be a good choice for them. Do we know if whoever wins the flip has to go first or if they can choose instead?

4 minutes ago, Shu2jack said:

I would rather go 2nd to start the game, especially as Dragon.

Go 2nd, get the extra fate. Try to pass first, get the extra fate. Declare the last conflict and put some fate on a ring to buff a guy. Go first next turn, declare the first conflict and get any extra fate on a ring.

I was going to say this. I have also skipped my last conflict to put more fate out to buff my one dude and pay for more conflict cards. The less you fight the more fate you can grab.

Going first potentially let's you pass first and get that extra fate. So that would seem to be the balance on turn one so the game is not decided in the first round.

There's a lot to unpack here.

First player gets first swing at a province, likely an extra fate from passing first, more action windows before their opponent (especially relevent with the "buy eager scout, they buy something big, you Way of the Crab to kill both of them" combo), and you have your choice of rings first and third, so likely higher quality of ring choice.

Second player gets an extra fate at the beginning of the dynasty phase, is more free to do as many actions as they wish in dynasty, as they are likely not getting the additional fate anyway, unless their opponent is spamming characters, and you have the opportunity to see how your opponent attacks and adjust accordingly, having an inevitably weaker defense to overcome when attacking second.

Long story short: It depends on the situation. End of the game, generally, I'd want to be first player (when I'm bearing down on their stronghold and they are mine), but for the first few turns, especially the first turn, I think I would prefer going second.

That said, I am leaning towards Crab, so my preference is obvious there.

I like the balance between the two options in this game far more than I do in Game of Thrones.

Going first has been a pretty big deal in quite a few of my games, even literally deciding the game. Lion's Pride Brawler and Doji Challenger are extremely powerful actions that only trigger on attack and affect the rest of the turn, and sometimes there are clear winners and losers among the rings. Imagine having no fate on your champion while going 2nd; the water ring is going to hurt, but if you went first, it might not matter too much. I've also intentionally not played my champion knowing that if I did, it would be dishonored by the fire ring.

That said, I didn't feel like going first was as important during my Crab games. It definitely depends on board state, but it can be a pretty big advantage and totally worth 1 fate. The fate does take the sting off a little, though.

2 minutes ago, Spawnod said:

Going first potentially let's you pass first and get that extra fate. So that would seem to be the balance on turn one so the game is not decided in the first round.

True, though clans like the Lion will probably not be passing first even if they have the first turn. Some decks are just going to rely more heavily on numerous Dynasty cards and won't be passing first even if they have the first turn.

I'm curious if going first noticeably impacted anyone's end game. In my games (as Crane), I felt like I was in the position of "Take their 3rd province and swing at their stronghold as first player next turn" regardless of who started. My sample size is about 5-7 games though, so I don't know if it is fair. As was pointed out on discord, 2nd player gets first crack at rings turn 2, giving them a possible extra fate.

I agree that there is some advantage on Ring choice, but I feel like it is a bigger advantage on later turns, when there is fate at stake. All the rings are good, so first turn, it really depends on deck-type, and honestly, ring of water will generally be much stronger for the 2nd player in a turn (Can't really use the straighten tech on the first attack, bow tech is probably too limited).

1 hour ago, Casanunda said:

Going first has been a pretty big deal in quite a few of my games, even literally deciding the game. Lion's Pride Brawler and Doji Challenger are extremely powerful actions that only trigger on attack and affect the rest of the turn, and sometimes there are clear winners and losers among the rings. Imagine having no fate on your champion while going 2nd; the water ring is going to hurt, but if you went first, it might not matter too much. I've also intentionally not played my champion knowing that if I did, it would be dishonored by the fire ring.

That said, I didn't feel like going first was as important during my Crab games. It definitely depends on board state, but it can be a pretty big advantage and totally worth 1 fate. The fate does take the sting off a little, though.

Very well put.

1 hour ago, Casanunda said:

Going first has been a pretty big deal in quite a few of my games, even literally deciding the game. Lion's Pride Brawler and Doji Challenger are extremely powerful actions that only trigger on attack and affect the rest of the turn, and sometimes there are clear winners and losers among the rings. Imagine having no fate on your champion while going 2nd; the water ring is going to hurt, but if you went first, it might not matter too much. I've also intentionally not played my champion knowing that if I did, it would be dishonored by the fire ring.

That said, I didn't feel like going first was as important during my Crab games. It definitely depends on board state, but it can be a pretty big advantage and totally worth 1 fate. The fate does take the sting off a little, though.

My question on this though is, did it matter that you went first on the first turn?

I agree going first depends on board state and can be quite important. But does that fall out significantly from who started the game?

I would assume the player who wins the flip can choose to go first or second.

In the different games I've played I've seen interesting tech for going second that help balance out the advantage of going first, but this may be the best game for it so far. Being that there are only 4 conflicts, not only do you get the free fate for going 2nd on the first turn, but you also get to choose which of the 2 remaining rings first turn can gain an extra fate, and take that as the first conflict turn 2. This means you are almost guaranteed 2 extra fate for going second. IF you can also play trim in the dynasty phase to pass first that is 3 fate advantage for 2nd turn, which can mean a lot.

Crab, Dragon, and Phoenix may all do very well playing second as they have cheap and powerful defense cards that can help them play solid defense in the first turn and come back with that extra 2-3 fate in the second turn to make a more powerful play on their terms.

The revealed Phoenix card Display of Power pretty much screams "Pass early to steal fate, then steal the ring, pray they don't break the province"

Meanwhile Crane are definitely going to want to go first if they have Doji Challenger.