I feel bad then: Everytime when I have to play against complete beginners it is really hard, I really feel like I am a bad guy. Last weekend during tournament I played with Whisper and Quickdraw against someone who didn't now the ships. I had a bad conscience because of all the shenanigans such as Fire control system, cloak, free focus, Quickdraw ability. I felt poorly, it was not fun to explain everything and see him loosing that way.

Nowadays there are so many new mechanics, it must be difficult for new players not to be negatively surprised and blown of by some strong lists.

How do you handle situations like that? I am always trying to explain a lot of things (its not always easy and fun to explain all the shenanigens several times), but I always want tontry to keep a positive impression pf the game.

So how do you handle such situation?

Personally, I've been playing for 2+ years now and I still don't understand half of what is going on in Scum shenanigans lists. It feels like you're being cheated, especially when the player you are facing doesn't walk you through all the crazy stuff these lists do.

I ask my opponent to walk me through the first couple of times because I want to understand why all of a sudden everyone in the list has focus tokens, is getting target locks and gets to add extra attack dice.

Whenever I'm expecting to play casually with people I don't know well, I try to bring a range of prepared squads including some competitive ones and some casual ones. I try to find out what my opponent's level of skill and experience is before we start playing. If I really am itching to get some competitive practice in, I'll ask politely to swap opponents around so that players of similar levels can play each other. If I do end up playing someone way below my level or with a terrible squad, I'll break out some goofy experimental squad or something really simple and straightforward.

In the actual game itself, I play it as a teaching game. I engage with my opponent, call out each and every action and trigger as they happen, and make sure they understand what's going on. I'll even give them advice or discuss their potential options with them as the game is going on, or drop encouraging hints like, "Gee, this ship is low on HP, I wonder how I can try to keep it alive another round?" I'll try to set my dials quickly and make the most obvious intuitive choices without overthinking it and also without intentionally making mistakes.

I definitely agree that losing hard to something you don't understand and couldn't have anticipated sucks. I think that's partly a problem with the game's design, and partly something the community has a responsibility to try to prevent when encountering newer players.

If you're not feeling like guiding them through with explanations of different card interactions and loop-de-loops that are going on in your list I suggest you either pass on playing noobs or bringing out a simpler list. Maybe even run the list you have almost naked.

I like playing teaching games. Seeing the wheels turning as they understand the different aspects and concepts then try them out is what I like about it.

My main opponent is my 7 year old son. Any new players I treat like I'd treat him in casual matches, just run through what my list does, give them reminders throughout the match not to forget their options, etc. In tournaments, my son wouldn't get that, he's good enough to figure it out on his own!

I've been known to do the same in regional final matches as well... oops!

4 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

If you're not feeling like guiding them through with explanations of different card interactions and loop-de-loops that are going on in your list I suggest you either pass on playing noobs or bringing out a simpler list. Maybe even run the list you have almost naked.

I like playing teaching games. Seeing the wheels turning as they understand the different aspects and concepts then try them out is what I like about it.

Its rather when you face beginners during a tournament for example, there is no choice. Then you come up with your strongest list.

As I started to play, there were only a couple of ships and just the classic actions. No auto-actions. Try to explain someone why e.g. Kylo Ren is bypassing shields and now he is not allowed to shoot and next turn he has to remove his full shielded Ethan Abaht because of got "kylo'ed" 2 times. Scum is even more difficult, so much mechanincs and free actions there

Well, there isnt any reason new players can't fly those same ships and squads (obviously they need to be financially able).

If you feel bad, just tell them if they liked the ship and upgrade combos, or thought they were strong, to put them on their wish list!

Depends on the scenario. If it's a tournament game just explain how things work as you're doing them and remind them to take actions, etc. You probably are taking an easy win regardless, might as well soften the blow as best you can without actively pulling punches.

In a casual game take a less complex and/or less serious list, give real time strategy feedback and explain your thought process behind maneuvers it or actions.

As a new player...on the other end of many a beatdown...I think its important that you not hold back at all. The main thing is explaining the mechanics and the timing since knowing every card a few games in is impossible.

As long as a new player knows why there getting completely owned...they should be able to accept the fact that there new and gonna get owned.

The only that bothers me is when the mechanics feel "cheap" but thankfully there arent many examples of that...Show Ya Da Dark Side and TLT and weird Stress attacks are the only ones that I have found really discouraging.

Other than that if you get out flown and out gunned its a learning experience every time.

If I know I'm playing casually against a new player, I'll bring out a fun themed lists (like all First Order ships for example, which is a personal favorite of mine), play with ships and/or pilots I rarely or never play with, and happily test out new non-competitive lists against them that I'm unfamiliar with so that the game is more even. Those are often when I have some of the most enjoyable games. I like to use those as teaching games for the new player, and testing grounds for lists and ships for myself.

If it's at a tournament, well there's really nothing I can do for them other than explain anything they don't understand or are having difficulty with. It's a tournament and everyone is there to win (to varying degrees), so the nastier competitive stuff is going to be all over the place. But I do sympathize with them if they go up against a Scum list or something where the action economy and red dice are through the roof and they may certainly feel cheated even when everything that happens is within the rules. Explaining to the new player that the competitive scene is different than the casual scene may help though.

3 minutes ago, IG88E said:

Its rather when you face beginners during a tournament for example, there is no choice. Then you come up with your strongest list.

As I started to play, there were only a couple of ships and just the classic actions. No auto-actions. Try to explain someone why e.g. Kylo Ren is bypassing shields and now he is not allowed to shoot and next turn he has to remove his full shielded Ethan Abaht because of got "kylo'ed" 2 times. Scum is even more difficult, so much mechanincs and free actions there

You always have the option of explaining everything before the game, you know.

Then it's not your fault; you explicitly explained that rather than doing a critical damage (which would go into the shields), INSTEAD, ISYTDS deals the selected face up card. After explaining that much, it's their fault if they didn't connect the dots on the implications for the E-Wing.

Any time there is anyone who comes over to read my cards, I ask if there is anything in my list they aren't familiar with.

Any time I'm up against someone who relates that they haven't played with the new ships, I also try to think of any relevant FAQ items before the game starts, because that's also a situation I don't want to get into: bringing up the rule change just when it appears to be to my benefit.

24 minutes ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

Whenever I'm expecting to play casually with people I don't know well, I try to bring a range of prepared squads including some competitive ones and some casual ones. I try to find out what my opponent's level of skill and experience is before we start playing. If I really am itching to get some competitive practice in, I'll ask politely to swap opponents around so that players of similar levels can play each other. If I do end up playing someone way below my level or with a terrible squad, I'll break out some goofy experimental squad or something really simple and straightforward.

In the actual game itself, I play it as a teaching game. I engage with my opponent, call out each and every action and trigger as they happen, and make sure they understand what's going on. I'll even give them advice or discuss their potential options with them as the game is going on, or drop encouraging hints like, "Gee, this ship is low on HP, I wonder how I can try to keep it alive another round?" I'll try to set my dials quickly and make the most obvious intuitive choices without overthinking it and also without intentionally making mistakes.

I definitely agree that losing hard to something you don't understand and couldn't have anticipated sucks. I think that's partly a problem with the game's design, and partly something the community has a responsibility to try to prevent when encountering newer players.

I do something similar to this. I have three each of rebel, imp and scum squads that are roughly balanced against each other but are not overloaded on gimmicks in order to be beginner friendly.

I let the newbie choose and then I take one of the others. As they get used to the game and list building I nudge them into building their own squad. Since I supply all the ships for my own little group it works well.

This happened in a tourney? Kid gloves are off.

Just be respectful. "Listen, it's a tournament so it's going to be really hard on the new guys. Don't expect anyone to go easy on you out here, but if you want I'll talk through what I'm doing as I'm doing it and remind you of some things if I catch it. Good luck."

When I present my list, I ask if people have any questions about it at all.

If a player specifically tells me he or she is new -- to the game or to tournaments -- I tell them we can play as casually as they want, and as we go I'll explain the commonly accepted differences between tournament play and casual play, and let them know that they should expect to be held to tournament play in turnament games with other players.

In addition, if they seem like they appreciate it, I will explain my specific goals with my list as I'm making my moves. (E.g., "So now I'm barrel-rolling here, because I think you probably did this maneuver, and I'd like to block it. Even if I don't, I think I'll have a range 1 shot.")

Finally, again only if they seem receptive, if I catch them making a tactical mistake that's not too late to correct, I'll say something, explain why it may be a tactical mistake, and let them change the decision if they choose. (E.g., "I know you have a range 1 shot on Poe here, but Norra is on 1 HP, and you have a focus token. If you can kill her, that's huge.") This is trickiest, because sometimes the best tactical choice doesn't work out, and you have to straddle the line between helping out a newbie and taking the blame for bad luck.

EDIT: I should add that the one thing I'm a stickler for, even with new players, is being as precise as reasonably possible with maneuvers. Collisions get messy, I get that (especially with 1-turning Large bases), but when there's no collision there's really no reason to deviate from "hold ship, place template; hold template, move and place ship."

I take the Conan approach to new players:

Crush your enemies . See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.

Lately we have had some new players at our LGS. Teaching new players the game really depends on the person. Whether the new player is competitive, casual, etc. Also, some players tend to grasp the mechanics/strategy faster than others. It does depend on the area's gaming community too. You have to grow the gaming community in your area or your gaming area will become stagnant. Some gaming communities are competitive, friendly, casual, etc. Depending on this it can be inviting or putting off to folks.

In non-tournament settings I bring several pre-made lists for play, the lists I bring range from beginner, intermediate and competitive. Also, I tend to explain the combos that I use a few times in the game for the new player to understand what is going on. I would generally ask if the person mind if I put my 2 cents on my input on the game. Some folks are receptive to advice and others are not. I tend not to invest my time on those who aren't receptive and/or poor sports. New players can grow with more games under their belt. Plus our group has a Facebook page. With an influx of new players I tend post X-Wing articles/videos for strategies/flying and/or tournament games.

For tournaments, it depends on the event and gaming community. If you have a competitive community for local game night kits then it can be difficult for new players. If this is the case then your gaming community/store can either create more beginner friendly events for these players. Or in the competitive events, your gaming community or yourself can make the difference by leaving a positive playing experience for players to continue coming by being friendly, good sports, helpful, etc.

I've been in this game since the initial Wave 1 release, so it's easier for me and I personally find it difficult for new players to get in because of cost and/or upgrade card pool with 11 Waves released. I think the base mechanics (core rules) of X-Wing is pretty easy to grasp and solid. So, this is helpful in teaching folks to play and have fun.

You should fly whatever you want to fly. Your opponent just needs to get good, QuickDraw isn't even broken, his ability only works when he has shields.

ISYTDS isn't broken either. It's a fun mechanic and it makes perfect sense that taking a crit on a shield counts as taking critical damage.

1 hour ago, phild0 said:

Well, there isnt any reason new players can't fly those same ships and squads (obviously they need to be financially able).

If you feel bad, just tell them if they liked the ship and upgrade combos, or thought they were strong, to put them on their wish list!

No, instead they should blow $101 dollars on a paper mache squadron first. Fly what you love, that's what's most important smarmy champion smile .

9 minutes ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:

You should fly whatever you want to fly. Your opponent just needs to get good, QuickDraw isn't even broken, his ability only works when he has shields.

ISYTDS isn't broken either. It's a fun mechanic and it makes perfect sense that taking a crit on a shield counts as taking critical damage.

No, instead they should blow $101 dollars on a paper mache squadron first. Fly what you love, that's what's most important smarmy champion smile .

Haha.

New players might not know WHAT they love (to fly) yet. Gotta show them the cool stuff!

My biggest shock was going from playing at home with some X-Wings and Tie Fighters to my local shop with crazy efficient lists pushing out huge numbers of red dice with modifiers.

At times I felt like I wasn't really participating, more just removing ships while my opponent rolls dice. I still think some things are fundamentally 'not fun' but I'm learning to deal with them better.

I still ask my opponents a lot of stuff about their cards, and I have all the dials on an app.

My favourite opponents are the ones who give me clear highlights of their main mechanics. And also roll dice slowly enough to explain where each one is coming from and how the results are being changed. Like "I'm rolling these two defence, then this extra one for lightweight frame".

X-Wing is tricky because of the number of variations. I still feel like I'm facing something completely different every match and I'm probably up near 50 games.

My approach was to stick with the basic ships I liked and keep playing them over and over again even though I was losing probably 80% of the time. And for the first few weeks I probably wasn't really learning, I was too shell-shocked to learn!

1 minute ago, ayedubbleyoo said:

X-Wing is tricky because of the number of variations. I still feel like I'm facing something completely different every match and I'm probably up near 50 games.

Yes. Many of those of us who have played since Wave I forget just how extreme the difference is between "learning as the game grows" and "boom, you better learn everything now." The game is massive now.

I've said this many times, in many places, but tell people you are -- or at least still feel -- new to the game. Many -- not all, but many -- will bend over to help you gracefully succumb to the addiction.

If it's a friend, I always start off with 1 X-Wing and 2 TIE Fighters, teach them the basics, and proceed from there...

If I'm playing some random in the store? Nope. Learned my lesson... don't pull your punches.

3 minutes ago, Kehl_Aecea said:

If I'm playing some random in the store? Nope. Learned my lesson... don't pull your punches.

I'm curious. How'd you learn this lesson?

When I played SnapCrackle Awings, I always talked them through the list and mentioned the importance of initiative (back then TIE Defenders were the dominating list, and initiative matters with x7 title). I still do fully explain the "tricks" of my lists, even reminding during the match, but I slowly get the feeling that I really should not do that anymore because I lose more tournament games than not. (e: not saying that's the only reason, but it could be a part. I know I make mistakes because I forgot or never knew, and my opponent did not remind me what will happen if I choose this certain maneuver)

3 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I'm curious. How'd you learn this lesson?

I'm on pretty good terms with a local game store (retro game store who has been trying to get more game tournaments besides Pokemon going on at his place. Also the place where I got hooked on the game... and he plays at a boosted 150 points). He gives me a ring and says his friend wants to play X-Wing at the store and he can't since, well, he's gotta run the store.

"How many games has he played?"
"Let me check.... none. He has played none games. I don't think he has anything super good either. Oh, he just bought Rebel Aces, so there's that."

In my head I'm thinking, "Okay, he has an X-Wing, a B-Wing, and an A-Wing bare minimum. I'll go easy on him and bring a themed list"

"Okay, I'll be down in a few minutes."

I plop down a Ghost w/ Phantom and two A-Wings which were all pretty bare bones.

He throws down a TLT Y-Wing, 2 B-Wings with Ions, and ARC-170, and a K-Wing with TLT. With my last A-Wing's dying breath I took out his Y-Wing.... regenning K-Wing bullcrap....

ANYWAY... yeah, never again will I go easy on a random XD It was still a fun game, but MY GOD was it a slaughter!

I enjoy playing against new players because I find it interesting how they approach their own mistakes - whether it be flying onto a rock, or recognising that I've lured his decimator into range 1 of a swarm. I won't go easy on then - although I will fly thematic lists, if given prior notice . I prefer to, after each mistake is made, give a 5 second rundown of how they can avoid it in the future. At that point, you're turning the game from pure fun (which is very hard with such a skill discrepancy) to a fun-learning game, which both parties can appreciate.