Not to mention that Jabba is discarded with the ship he is equipped on when that ship dies therefore removing the rules for token interactions from the game. I want him to work beyond the grave, I'm just pointing this out...
No FAQ on release day :(
Id rather go to RAW when possibly. It aint always the best, but in some cases (like omega L) the language is tight
Though i guess the whole "attack opportunity" thing might not be clearly defined. Dont have Rref on me
For jabba idk, but unless the tokens themselvrs have a ref (card or pamphlet) then they should be governed utterly by his card text which no longer exists when he is removed from play
Edited by ficklegreendice
But there is a free mission with the article
15 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:Id rather go to RAW when possibly. It aint always the best, but in some cases (like omega L) the language is tight
Though i guess the whole "attack opportunity" thing might not be clearly defined. Dont have Rref on me
For jabba idk, but unless the tokens themselvrs have a ref (card or pamphlet) then they should be governed utterly by his card text which no longer exists when he is removed from play
"To use Illicit tokens, follow the rules on [Jabba's] card."
This does not require Jabba to be in play. The rules on his card are always on his card, regardless of where he is at the moment.
Jabba is the reference card, in this instance.
18 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:Yeah. Hence why we need an FAQ. I'm not sure FFG is always late because they are just slow, or because everything has to go through the Mouse now .
Things are slow because of the details on the Biggs nerf I heard. And maybe this as the final step? IDK. I think the other nerfs are text set. But there are some good questions regarding the newer ships (noted in this thread) that they want to squeeze in too, so that might be why there has been some noticeable slowness.
22 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:Things are slow because of the details on the Biggs nerf I heard. And maybe this as the final step? IDK. I think the other nerfs are text set. But there are some good questions regarding the newer ships (noted in this thread) that they want to squeeze in too, so that might be why there has been some noticeable slowness.
NERF 'EM ALL, LET THE FORCE SORT 'EM OUT!
2 hours ago, Sir13scott said:and some people are wonderfing about splitting up Cluster mines.
No. Cluster mines tells you exactly how they are placed in the field. No variation allowed.
Jabba certainly doesn't work when dead, as RAW he only works for the ship he is equipped on. Remember, "You" refers to the ship that the upgrade is equipped on, so his text would only trigger when his equipped ship would discard an illicit. I'm sure that was not their intent, but they were sloppy in their rules text again. X-Wing is in desperate need of a new edition with a competent rules writer.
25 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:Jabba certainly doesn't work when dead, as RAW he only works for the ship he is equipped on. Remember, "You" refers to the ship that the upgrade is equipped on, so his text would only trigger when his equipped ship would discard an illicit. I'm sure that was not their intent, but they were sloppy in their rules text again. X-Wing is in desperate need of a new edition with a competent rules writer.
No, if you read the sheet that came with the C-ROC, they call out the rules text on his card for how you use an Illicit token. As the Illicit token is on the ship using it, "You" still works.
It is an awkward solution, but it does turn him into a reference card. It does NOT need him to be an Upgrade to work (I'm assuming this has something to do with Azmorrigan in Epic, otherwise I can't see why they'd just not word his card better).
How would you guys propose I go about convincing the TOs in my area that the tokens still work after Jabba is gone? After it has been discussed here, even after initially believing the insert told me nothing, I have been fully convinced that Jabba 100% works when he is gone as he is referenced as essentially a rules card in the booklet, but TOs aren't bending. Any ideas?
Just now, Kdubb said:How would you guys propose I go about convincing the TOs in my area that the tokens still work after Jabba is gone? After it has been discussed here, even after initially believing the insert told me nothing, I have been fully convinced that Jabba 100% works when he is gone as he is referenced as essentially a rules card in the booklet, but TOs aren't bending. Any ideas?
If they are going to be that way despite good arguments otherwise then I'm not sure there is much you can do? I guess ask them to take a step back and look at it from a casual player's perspective: the tokens look like extra munitions tokens and the wording on Jabba's card makes it seem like they function the same. The rules on the cards and in the booklet don't directly contradict that interpretation, the only ambiguity originates from a detailed technical knowledge of rules interpretation and that is a debate that seems to require FFG input to resolve. So a casual player is going to assume they work like extra munitions and show up to your tournament with that assumption. Is there a compelling reason to rule against that and potentially hamstring their list?
Just now, Transmogrifier said:If they are going to be that way despite good arguments otherwise then I'm not sure there is much you can do? I guess ask them to take a step back and look at it from a casual player's perspective: the tokens look like extra munitions tokens and the wording on Jabba's card makes it seem like they function the same. The rules on the cards and in the booklet don't directly contradict that interpretation, the only ambiguity originates from a detailed technical knowledge of rules interpretation and that is a debate that seems to require FFG input to resolve. So a casual player is going to assume they work like extra munitions and show up to your tournament with that assumption. Is there a compelling reason to rule against that and potentially hamstring their list?
The problem with the EM comparison is that the tokens don't work if you lose the EM upgrade either. I've not read the booklet, but the way the card is worded is pretty clear.
Of course, I also haven't played X-Wing in 18 months (thought I do try to stay current) and think the game has gone steadily downhill ever since Scum was introduced, so you know, do whatever.
Just ask the TO about their stance on Jabba prior to the tournament.
There, I fixed it for you.
P.S. It doesn't really matter when you realise Jabba is also a reference card for illicit tokens though. It all makes sense then. ("you" will refer to each ship equipped with an illicit token separately, and the effect will work if the upgrade-card-Jabba is discarded because he's discarded as an upgrade card, not as a reference card.
The game has seemed to go downhill since the jump master wave. What 8? And the ghost? More large ship bs.
Scum imo is fun. By itself they don't disrupt the balance of the force. It's crap plsytesti g and refusal to create counters and weaknesses for large ships that count that cause this crap.
Thpugh in the future we will see if starvipers and khitsxhm and scurrgs become overpowered too
and biggs will probably need some errata. That Wookiee. Really.
For the record fenn rau is mathematically overpowered.
Aldo reddice creep.
Another one would be about the interaction between Kestal and Palp. Which one activates first? Made a thread about it today and so far no one seems to know the answer.
1 hour ago, Elavion said:Just ask the TO about their stance on Jabba prior to the tournament.
There, I fixed it for you.
P.S. It doesn't really matter when you realise Jabba is also a reference card for illicit tokens though. It all makes sense then. ("you" will refer to each ship equipped with an illicit token separately, and the effect will work if the upgrade-card-Jabba is discarded because he's discarded as an upgrade card, not as a reference card.
I believe the very point of FAQ is to make sure rules don't change from one tournament to the next. Especially if there are multiple questions that would need to be clarified by the TO every single time. Also, if a certain card/interaction is crucial to your list, it kinda sucks if you're not even sure you'll be able to use your list because the TO of your next tournament decides otherwise. Or even worse - the FAQ eventually does appear and screws you over right before an important tournament.
Either way, a new FAQ definitely is needed.
5 hours ago, MajorJuggler said:Yeah. Hence why we need an FAQ. I'm not sure FFG is always late because they are just slow, or because everything has to go through the Mouse now.
If I was going to speculate FAQs are never released in same time as launch. Maybe as a final check to see if someone comes up with something broken that needs to be errata or clarified.
21 minutes ago, Marinealver said:If I was going to speculate FAQs are never released in same time as launch. Maybe as a final check to see if someone comes up with something broken that needs to be errata or clarified.
That is only proportional to the amount of unrevealed information that is gleaned on release day, which due to FFG's preview policy spanning up to several months before release and all but a few tiny tidbits of information remaining for release day, virtually all relevant questions have been asked on the forums (some times several times before release) so the relevant FAQ questions have already been asked on the forums plenty of times.
Of course they don’t help themselves due to their other policy of not answering rules questions sent via official email channels till after release as well.
Probably half an hour of scanning through the FFG X-Wing rules sub-forum a couple days before release would give them 99% of the relevant "Frequently Asked Questions" that they need to answer on release day.
I honestly don’t think that is too much to ask to ensure FAQ on release day.
2 hours ago, Mace Windu said:That is only proportional to the amount of unrevealed information that is gleaned on release day, which due to FFG's preview policy spanning up to several months before release and all but a few tiny tidbits of information remaining for release day, virtually all relevant questions have been asked on the forums (some times several times before release) so the relevant FAQ questions have already been asked on the forums plenty of times.
Of course they don’t help themselves due to their other policy of not answering rules questions sent via official email channels till after release as well.
Probably half an hour of scanning through the FFG X-Wing rules sub-forum a couple days before release would give them 99% of the relevant "Frequently Asked Questions" that they need to answer on release day.
I honestly don’t think that is too much to ask to ensure FAQ on release day.
and what data is that? Heck for many of releases the dial isn't spoiled until a week before launch and you can't play a ship using only the pilot card.
Yeah it is too much to ask, you really don't know what comes up until you stress it out, let everyone have a shot at it, survey by volume works better than any one personal intuition and that includes yours. FFG gets their communications through more than just these forums you know. Contrary to popular belief, the forums don't dictate the game, nor are they the only people who play the game (game wouldn't be that successful if that were the case).
39 minutes ago, Marinealver said:and what data is that? Heck for many of releases the dial isn't spoiled until a week before launch and you can't play a ship using only the pilot card.
Yeah it is too much to ask, you really don't know what comes up until you stress it out, let everyone have a shot at it, survey by volume works better than any one personal intuition and that includes yours. FFG gets their communications through more than just these forums you know. Contrary to popular belief, the forums don't dictate the game, nor are they the only people who play the game (game wouldn't be that successful if that were the case).
In terms of unknown info at release? Typically it’s only a dial or 2, the point cost of some of the middle generics and maybe 1-2 upgrade cards, that’s it. All unique pilots are released early, all ship stats, and virtually all upgrades are revealed well in advance of release date.
Dials have never be an FAQ issue with exception of Juno Eclipse and final point costs of Generics doesn't generate questions either.
As far as I can tell there aren't any new questions regarding any of the last bits of info revealed in the last few days, heck we even typically get someone at a warehouse cracking the kits prior to release day anyway so there's never any unknown info as of release day anyway.
This community pretty much jumps on any grey area within the card text as soon as new info comes out, literally within half an hour of a pilot or upgrade being spoiled if it has even a hint of ambiguity there's a thread about it up on the rules forums.
The FAQ's are already there a week out from release on the rules forums, FFG just needs to answer them.
As for stress testing the cards, the fervent rules fanatics, WAAC players and grammar police on these forums pick up 99% of the issues straight away, I can't think of an instance where something has been out for a month before someone points out a problem that can't be solved by reading the rules, or at least is not worthy of an FAQ instalment.
With events running every weekend across the world it would be great if there weren't the need to have these sorts of discussions every wave or product that comes out.
13 hours ago, clanofwolves said:Things are slow because of the details on the Biggs nerf I heard. And maybe this as the final step? IDK. I think the other nerfs are text set.
@clanofwolves - Biggs nerf? (About Bloody time) Other nerfs?
Colour me interested. Where have you heard of these wonderful rumours?
9 minutes ago, KMitchell said:@clanofwolves - Biggs nerf? (About Bloody time) Other nerfs?
Colour me interested. Where have you heard of these wonderful rumours?
The same place everyone else has.
mwahahaha....
MWAHAHAHAHA!
Ha...
ha.
Anyways, not sure where that came from.
I honestly have heard these rumors from multiple sources, so either someone is pretending to be a playtester and spreading these rumors for the hilarity of it, or there is at least one playtester who has shared info with close friends who didn't keep their lips as tight as they were asked to.
13 hours ago, clanofwolves said:Things are slow because of the details on the Biggs nerf I heard. And maybe this as the final step? IDK. I think the other nerfs are text set. But there are some good questions regarding the newer ships (noted in this thread) that they want to squeeze in too, so that might be why there has been some noticeable slowness.
What is the punishment for breaking an X-Wing NDA?
Genuinely curious.
Edited by SaltMaster 500016 minutes ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:What is the punishment for breaking an X-Wing NDA?
Genuinely curious.
A massage from Jar Jar Binks.
6 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:A massage from Jar Jar Binks.
Seriously though, it can't be much. Probably a "shame on you" and a cut from the playtest team.