So after a lot of tinkering this is where I have ended up. Still kinda new but these are basically the only two ships I have flown.

Boba can smoke Fenn with this, one HLC shot at range with focus, followed by an R1 4 dice shot ideally from rear arc depending on situation. Lone Wolf is great but swap for VI and an Ion Bomb if you want to use Boba to strip defense tokens from a target before Whisper drops a 4 or 5 dice hammer.

Whisper with Recon Spec always focuses if your shooting first, otherwise evade when in someones arc. Advanced sensors instead of FCS since the double focus of recon spec greatly reduces your reliance on having to land a hit. 4 or 5 dice with a focus for both defense or attack is pretty reliable. Advanced Sensors allows significant reposition advantages and allows you to bump scary things up close with Whisper and still take a double focus first to take shots.

When flying against large turret ships like Rey or Dash or Dengar bump aggressively and try to line up shots modified by advanced sensors on the other support ships while bumping.

Stress detroys you...so consider rebel captive on Whisper to deter shots. Kylo Ren on RAC or Upsilon completely ends your day unless you bump aggressively or just roll up hard for R1 shots. Shadowcasters also are day enders but you can arc dodge them.

I'd be tempted to Kallus on Whisper just to bid 1 more point. It also frees you up to Barrel Roll if you have to as your focus economy isn't pinned to the action so much.

@SOTL thats what most people do and its sound advice but it hasnt been useful for me, likely due to my inexperience. Its just to limited. With Kallus you end up having to fly Whisper like a scared cat. With Recon Spec Advanced Sensors a bid and initiative you can sorta get a way with being all up in your opponents grill. Recon spec lets you muscle through multiple shots from squadrons of X-wings or a few imperial aces.

I am ultimately a big time novice here, but the 25 games iv played with this basic list ( almost all losses, mostly a skill issue)....iv found Recon Spec to be much more balanced and consistent for both attack and defense in tricky situations. The biggest thing is it makes you completely indepedent from FCS. You dont have to land shots to survive. You just need to shoot. Opens up Whispers mobility big time with the use of Advanced Sensors.

To get more Bid i would probably drop Engine Upgrade on Boba. Maybe replace with Tactical Jammer/Hull Upgrade or better yet Countermeasures.

Lone Wolf is so useful in defense that id hesitate to swap it with VI but that works well to get to that 97 pt bid to.

With DenTel coming in at 98pts and two heavy PS9 hitters you;re playing 50/50 with Whisper's future if you don't drop to 97. What I like about Kallus is that it gives you most of the Focus benefit from Rec Spec while freeing up your action flexibility to barrel out of arcs (with Sensors either before/after you move, which is strong), or TL when you've got the opportunity to really punish somebody.

24 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

@SOTL thats what most people do but its really not very useful from what i have found, likely due to my inexperience. Its just to limited. With Kallus you end up having to fly Whisper like a scared cat. With Recon Spec Advanced Sensors a bid and initiative you can sorta get a way with being all up in your opponents grill. Recon spec lets you muscle through multiple shots from squadrons of X-wings or a few imperial aces.

You want to avoid jousting (or muscling through) with Whisper as much as possible. Even more with multiple ships at the same time. Hes really ment to dodge. FCS gives you the target lock, his ability gives you the focus for defense. Since you just have one action when you barrel roll (to arc dodge) you are left with no way to change your "eyes" to hit. Thats why Kallus is a better choice.

IMO this would be a much better build for the same amount of points. If you dont have the cards yet, unless you are going to a major tournament you can always use proxy...

@Thormind

Thats the issue with FCS for me. I guess i didnt mean to straght joust and take shots. FCS and Agent Kallus for me are very limiting in terms of mobility and adjustment.

It greatly limits your ability to dodge compared to advanced sensors.

Intel Agent i understand but the way that works it pairs better with Advanced Sensors. i just think FCS is way to dangerous on Whisper since its entirely unforgiving. One manuvear mistake and you are very likely dead especially when not landing a shot. With Rec Spec and AS you can adjust and survive fairly consistently. No matter what stress kills you.

If my opponent never did anything i couldnt predict or if i never mis judged a single angle your builds better sure. But ultimately big base turret ships are gonna get shots on you. Always. No matrer what. Would rather have 4 dice with two focuses and a chance to adjust for a bump or shot than the razor thin edge that is FCS. If i have to rely on landing a potentially unmodified shot with just only a TL to survive its really a massive seemingly unnecessary risk.

Inexperience talking here of course but I have been looking to kit Whisper effectively in ways that are not the status quo of FCS + Kallus, that combo just doesnt seem to take advantage of all the pre-movement shenanigans that really only Whisper and a few others are capable of.

14 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

@Thormind

Thats the issue with FCS for me. I guess i didnt mean to straght joust and take shots. FCS and Agent Kallus for me are very limiting in terms of mobility and adjustment.

It greatly limits your ability to dodge compared to advanced sensors.

Intel Agent i understand but the way that works it pairs better with Advanced Sensors. i just think FCS is way to dangerous on Whisper since its entirely unforgiving. One manuvear mistake and you are very likely dead especially when not landing a shot. With Rec Spec and AS you can adjust and survive fairly consistently. No matter what stress kills you.

If my opponent never did anything i couldnt predict or if i never mis judged a single angle your builds better sure. But ultimately big base turret ships are gonna get shots on you. Always. No matrer what. Would rather have 4 dice with two focuses and a chance to adjust for a bump or shot than the razor thin edge that is FCS.

Inexperience talking here of course but I kinda want to hear other ideas on how to kit Whisper effectively that are not the status quo of FCS + Kallus, that combo just doesnt seem to take advantage of all the pre-movement shenanigans that really only Whisper and a few others are capable of.

The only movement you can do before moving is a barrel roll. Rolling before or after you move puts you at the same place in the end. Only time it's useful is to avoid being blocked. Whisper is kinda hard to block so it should not happen that often.

FCS why do you think it's unforgiving? It's actually a great tool because it allows you to get a free Target Lock and free up you action for something else (like a barell roll).

Basically action economy is a big part of the game. The more you have the better.With expertise(or Kallus when no points are available)+FCS you get your target lock and offensive focus for free. Whisper already gets a free defensive focus so you are free to do your barell roll with no downside. If the roll is not needed you take a focus in case more than 1 ship shoots.

@Thormind

That makes alot of sense, the feedback is helpful!

I guess the main reason iv gravitated towards Advanced Sensors instead is this...been running into alot of lists with 2 big ships and a turret or one big scary easy mode turret ship and an ace, i.e. Rey/Norra, Dash/Miranda, Dengar/Fenn etc. or a squadron with at least 1 TLT. The TLT basically requires me to get in close to survive. TLT hits twice so 2-3 focus tokens in defense feels like it "matters" with only 4 hp. Advanced sensors has proved invaluable for basically repeatedly bumping one of the big ships to negate its shot in on whisper while still lining up focus modified shots at the other ship.

That frees either boba or whisper to basically circle and ping shots in to w/e opportunity target is there. Advanced Sensors + Decloaking feels like its opened up a lot of mobility for Whisper but maybe thats just my lack of experience. But alot of the time it feels like my best move is dive in at my opponent with Whisper to arc dodge rather than just try and dance snipe and allow them to control the board. Referred to FCS as unforgiving since its very "single" target oriented and it feels like it only pays off the next round. That to me limits its flexibility alot.

Im not seeing the defensive advantages of it until the next round and it feels like it forces me to be to predictable in attacking the same ship each round especially with the telegraph that is Agent Kallus.

Add to that the fact that Advanced Sensors lets you basically decloak right 2 then left 1 to juke fake another ship. It makes the info from the decloak even less predictable as well.

Whisper without FCS relies too much on luck.

Whisper's best defense, hands down, is killing things quickly.

Consider this - Advanced Sensors is sometimes useful. Some matches, you won't ever need to use it. FCS is used whenever you shoot, and you're very, very likely to get a lot of use out of Target Locks with a four dice primary.

I hope this isn't taken in a negative light, but you're using AS as a crutch, to support your inexperience with how ships move. It's a security net that helps you react after the fact. This has one major problem, in addition to taking up the slot FCS wants - you're not going to improve your standard play by using Advanced Sensors. Whisper is already among the most nimble of ships in the game -- with some practice, you will often never need Advanced Sensors. And I am speaking from a lot of experience with Whisper. I don't fly her in the current meta, mostly due to how many things can nuke her even with her four dice (or shoot before her, ew), but she was one of my most flown ships prior to recent waves. FCS is a key to her success in a broader scale.

As for crew, Intel Agent is another crutch, though I'll allow the Crew slot is where most people make cuts to fit Whisper into lists. I don't personally think there is a better version than Buzzsaw Whisper (FCS, Gunner, ACD, VI), but I have seen other crew combinations work plenty fine, from Rebel Captive, to Kallus, to Intel Agent.

Predicting your opponent isn't as hard as it may at first seem, especially when you learn ships and know where their ships literally cannot go -- that's the area Whisper lives in, and she doesn't need Advanced Sensors to get there.

BIG caveat: Advanced Sensors is a great card. It changes how ships play dramatically. I am not in any way saying it isn't awesome... You're just not getting the most mileage out of your very expensive, very fragile ship. If you're married to it, I would strongly recommend fitting a more offensively minded crew on Whisper, either going full monte with Gunner of making some space for Kallus.

@ArbitraryNerd

I think your right about it being a crutch for movement definitely. But that oversimplifies things a tiny bit.

Recon Spec is definitely still offensive minded. With 4 or 5 dice im still dishing out big damage. Whisper relies on luck sure but if i miss i still have 2 focuses plus the cloak.

Its just slightly more balanced for defense than Kallus or Gunner assuming im not stressed.

My experience level of course doesnt at all compare to most Whisper pilots out there so im out of my league here for sure.

But the thing that i use alot if not more than the Advanced sensor barrel roll, is the advanced sensor Focus into a bump on a big ship.

Thats honestly hugely valuable as im often still frequently dishing dmg and taking an entire big ships turret shot off the table for a round.

The comments on the meta suggest to me the normal FCS build just doesnt cut it anymore and isnt balanced enough or "reactive" enough for a Range 2-3 turret and ordnance heavy meta.

27 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

@ArbitraryNerd

I think your right about it being a crutch for movement definitely. But that oversimplifies things a tiny bit.

Recon Spec is definitely still offensive minded. With 4 or 5 dice im still dishing out big damage. Whisper relies on luck sure but if i miss i still have 2 focuses plus the cloak.

Its just slightly more balanced for defense than Kallus or Gunner assuming im not stressed.

My experience level of course doesnt at all compare to most Whisper pilots out there so im out of my league here for sure.

But the thing that i use alot if not more than the Advanced sensor barrel roll, is the advanced sensor Focus into a bump on a big ship.

Thats honestly hugely valuable as im often still frequently dishing dmg and taking an entire big ships turret shot off the table for a round.

The comments on the meta suggest to me the normal FCS build just doesnt cut it anymore and isnt balanced enough or "reactive" enough for a Range 2-3 turret and ordnance heavy meta.

Advanced Sensors and ramming is a solid tactic, but not so much on the Phantom's frame. The Phantom's job is to avoid arcs and nuke those that it can't.

My main recommendation is to practice sans AS, so that you learn the different ways of flying the Phantom -- there is a reason it is considered a boogyman ship, an why many lists have a hard time dealing with it.

It does revolve around getting more comfortable with flying and predicting opponents, though -- it is definitely a high skill ship, and, more often than not, high risk, high reward.

Rec Spec isn't awful, especially the way you've been flying Whisper. I do think you'd get more value out of a nimble Whisper, where Rec Spec is now a waste of points (ideally, you're only taking a shot or two a around, which a normal Focus action and/or Whisper's natural ability is already taking care of for you, and you don't rely on it so much on offense if you've got FCS).

You have to consider how all the pieces play together, when it comes to the "standard" Whisper.

As I always try to, though, I've got another caveat - you know your meta infinitely better than I. Your Whisper wouldn't last in my meta, for a number of reasons (a big one being the Shadowcaster -- either Assaj or Ketsu is going to give you a bad time). Doesn't mean it's not working in yours!

@ArbitraryNerd

Your right on the money. Assaj and Ketsu wipe both Boba and Whisper in a few turns.

I think the only build that might have a chance to survive them would have to involve Inspired Recruit or something...