I think the same as Joe, with a bit of salt for Shoju:

1. Shoju

2. Tsukune

3. Kisada

4. Yokuni

5. Toturi

6. Asparagus

7. Hotaru

My ranking would go:

1. Yokuni

2. Shoju

3. Tsukune

4. Kisada

5. Hotaru

6. Toturi

7. Altansarnai

I like Hotaru. There's nobody except Shoju who can stand before her in a social fight, which means that it's easier for her ability to trigger.

1 hour ago, Kitsu Seinosuke said:

I like Hotaru. There's nobody except Shoju who can stand before her in a social fight, which means that it's easier for her ability to trigger.

I agree - I put Hotaru over Toturi because she is strong POL, which isn't as easy to swarm. Crane also have more access to honoring so she is more reliably a 9 POL than Toturi is a 9 MIL. She has great synergy with the stronghold to remove any weaker POL blockers too, so I think she is more likely to actually break a province solo.

1 minute ago, shosuko said:

I agree - I put Hotaru over Toturi because she is strong POL, which isn't as easy to swarm. Crane also have more access to honoring so she is more reliably a 9 POL than Toturi is a 9 MIL. She has great synergy with the stronghold to remove any weaker POL blockers too, so I think she is more likely to actually break a province solo.

This. Also her clan has more ways to protect her than other clans have. Above Question, Voice of Honor, Steward of Law and Duelist Training (Bullying other political characters out of the conflict by bowing them) all work amazing with her. Of course she is not on the level of Kisada or Shoju but she is definately far from the worst champion.

1. Kisada

2. Shoju

3. Yokuni

4. Toturi / Hotaru

6. Tsukune

7. Alabasune

You don't win the game by losing. And Kisada is the man who's ability keeps giving every conflict regardless if he is there or bowed.

Too many of these lists seem to be based on armchair daimyo thinking than actual play.

15 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

Too many of these lists seem to be based on armchair daimyo thinking than actual play.

Well we would have actual game experience, but that really isn't our fault.

28 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

Too many of these lists seem to be based on armchair daimyo thinking than actual play.

Of course they are- one of the cards being discussed hasn't even been officially previewed yet. Are you genuinely surprised that people are evaluating cards for an unreleased game based on gut feeling, or are you just trying to sound insightful by pointing out the glaringly obvious?

33 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

Too many of these lists seem to be based on armchair daimyo thinking than actual play.

What else is there to do? We're discussing which of the Champions are best in the box. This isn't about which clan is the best, but rather each champion. No one thinks the Unicorn are weak, they just think altrasizer is weaker than the other champions. The Unicorn as a whole are deadly, every clan is - and I couldn't possibly put each clan on a tier list at this time...

I'm basing my list off of my own experience with the game. It's pretty easy to compare the clan champions directly once you've played a few games and understand exactly how powerful certain effects are. I couldn't even begin to rate the clans as a whole, though (and I've been thinking about it for awhile now), the difference in power level is very marginal and the game really does go to the player who played better at least 80% of the time. Also, obligatory reminder that this is an opinion based enterprise. It's not like we can directly measure the "goodness" of a card.

Definitive Clan Rankings:

Tier 1: Crab, Crane, Dragon, Lion, Phoenix, Scorpion, Unicorn

Tier 2:

37 minutes ago, I Fight Dragons said:

I'm basing my list off of my own experience with the game. It's pretty easy to compare the clan champions directly once you've played a few games and understand exactly how powerful certain effects are. I couldn't even begin to rate the clans as a whole, though (and I've been thinking about it for awhile now), the difference in power level is very marginal and the game really does go to the player who played better at least 80% of the time. Also, obligatory reminder that this is an opinion based enterprise. It's not like we can directly measure the "goodness" of a card.

If there's one thing that's really nice about this game it's that with all the card draw you're generally safe in assuming your opponent always has it. In other games accounting for every possible out is death because you lose too much value playing around cards that aren't there. But here you can actually sequence 4-5 cards ahead and it's useful. Really rewards players who plan ahead and know the cardpool.

But then you swing into a province with a 66% of not hitting Elemental Fury and you roll a 1.

Just now, kiramode said:

If there's one thing that's really nice about this game it's that with all the card draw you're generally safe in assuming your opponent always has it. In other games accounting for every possible out is death because you lose too much value playing around cards that aren't there. But here you can actually sequence 4-5 cards ahead and it's useful. Really rewards players who plan ahead and know the cardpool.

But then you swing into a province with a 66% of not hitting Elemental Fury and you roll a 1.

I absolutely destroyed a 1 core test game by my opponent attacking into Elemental Fury with a Niten Adept with 3 fate while I had Masahiro on the board. I felt bad for my opponent, but still totally burninated that Niten Adept. Screw that card.

11 minutes ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Definitive Clan Rankings:

Tier 1: Crab, Crane, Dragon, Lion, Phoenix, Scorpion, Unicorn

Tier 2:

Wow, it makes so much sense now!

1 minute ago, I Fight Dragons said:

I absolutely destroyed a 1 core test game by my opponent attacking into Elemental Fury with a Niten Adept with 3 fate while I had Masahiro on the board. I felt bad for my opponent, but still totally burninated that Niten Adept. Screw that card.

The people who hit the lucky streak at Gencon are inevitably going to be the ones who succeed.

That and the Phoenix players.

6 minutes ago, I Fight Dragons said:

I absolutely destroyed a 1 core test game by my opponent attacking into Elemental Fury with a Niten Adept with 3 fate while I had Masahiro on the board. I felt bad for my opponent, but still totally burninated that Niten Adept. Screw that card.

In all fairness, anyone who ever puts 3 fate on pretty much anything deserves to lose....especially on a 2 drop.

I really do hate elemental fury. I think it swings more games than Shameful Display.

In single core, it's much more acceptable to put 2 or sometimes more fate on guys, because the value of having a clan card for an extra turn usually outweighs the same for any given neutral you are likely to see. That said, Assassination will be rampant so don't do that on a 2 cost guy, probably. Elemental Fury is a very swingy card, sometimes. I think the best you can do is just understand that it can happen when you haven't seen a water province yet, and plan accordingly

8 minutes ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

The people who hit the lucky streak at Gencon are inevitably going to be the ones who succeed.

That and the Phoenix players.

Even in single core the potential to outplay is very large. I expect the playtesters and those who pre-played the game a lot will rise to the top of swiss by the 3rd round or so.

37 minutes ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Definitive Clan Rankings:

Tier 1: Crab, Crane, Dragon, Lion, Phoenix, Scorpion, Unicorn

Tier 2:

Tier 2: Naga, Spider, Shadowlands, Ratling, Ninja, Mantis, Toturi's Army, Spirit, Yoritomo's Alliance, Brotherhood of Shinsei, did I miss anyone? b/c FFG did haha

5 minutes ago, shosuko said:

Tier 2: Naga, Spider, Shadowlands, Ratling, Ninja, Mantis, Toturi's Army, Spirit, Yoritomo's Alliance, Brotherhood of Shinsei, did I miss anyone? b/c FFG did haha

Yeah, but who cares about those guys ?

28 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Yeah, but who cares about those guys ?

FFG don't lol

23 minutes ago, shosuko said:

FFG don't lol

I've approved of their handling of L5R pretty much on every point so far....including this one?

Think of the children.

Just say NO....to the Mantis ???????????

14 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

I've approved of their handling of L5R pretty much on every point so far....including this one?

Think of the children.

Just say NO....to the Mantis ???????????

You sir, get my first "like" on these forums.

10 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

I've approved of their handling of L5R pretty much on every point so far....including this one?

Think of the children.

Just say NO....to the Mantis ???????????

idk - I'm actually on the fence... On one hand, the game needs a certain level of containment. If they were to introduce a new faction they would have to spill out a LOT of cards to catch them up, and factions like (shudder) spider, Shadowlands, and Shadow would need some way to properly interact with the Honor system. For these reasons I don't like the idea of the game breaking away from the 7 GC...

That said - one of the biggest elements of the game is that it interacts with its story more than any other game. For this to be real we may NEED new factions to happen, and the ability even for great clans to fall out (like the Scorpion did to the burning sands)

We certainly wouldn't want any of the GC to completely die out, but the ebb and flow needs to be present for the game to reflect the story, and the story to remain interesting.

I would be okay if there were non-evergreen strongholds released to represent alliances and emerging factions as long as they suffer rotation like the majority of the card base. I think both alliance and emerging factions would be interesting for play, and allow good meta diversity to feel the game come and go. Imagine a Crab stronghold that let you splash extra influence or possibly even non-unique dynasty characters from just 1 other faction, and in trade you cannot ally with any other faction using this stronghold. Its not a perfect idea, but it sounds interesting to me...

2 hours ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Definitive Clan Rankings:

Tier 1: Crab, Crane, Dragon, Lion, Phoenix, Scorpion, Unicorn

Tier 2:

In that order