Hi guys,

I was toying around with the rules that came with the Imperial Veterans custom maps, specifically the way that demolition charges work, and thought this might be a great way to separate Imperial bombers from the rest. Anyways, see what you think of this dual card designed for bombers. Art adapted from Richard Chasemore.

The wording is a bit clumsy, but this is similar to how the demo charges were worded, happy to take suggestions. The effect is a little weird, but basically you use the 5 straight template to zip the bomb forward to the other side of the maneuver template. It's a bomb thrower basically.

Yep, the wording is clumsy...

1- It can be TIE only. That simplify the text a little.

2- Does it need to be Dual Card? The drawback (weapon disabled token) looks too heavy.

1 hour ago, Odanan said:

Yep, the wording is clumsy...

1- It can be TIE only. That simplify the text a little.

2- Does it need to be Dual Card? The drawback (weapon disabled token) looks too heavy.

I agree. I also want to bring up the following points:

Why not have it be a Torpedo? There's ample precedence for not taking up the mod slot with Ordnance upgrades with Extra Munitions, and in this case it actually makes sense: it's turning the torp launcher into a bomb launcher.

I'd also say that the wording that it moves AFTER everything else moves is problematic; Bomb tokens only have one set of guides and so this boils down to a 3 forward movement from where the TIE Bomber was when it dropped; not bad for Action bombs, but potentially awful for "Drop when moving" bombs because it'd be all too easy to bomb yourself. Poor design.

Also, the Sabine clause is... well... cut-and-paste. Not all that fond of it. Just being able to deploy out your front guides would be awesome.

I'd say something like: "TIE ONLY. When deploying a bomb token, you may use the 5 Forward template from your front guides. If the bomb token would overlap a ship, it is instead placed touching the ship in that line."

That last clause needs a bit of cleaning up to be perfectly clear (It's placed touching the ship with its guides facing the deployment ship?) but the basic idea is clear: You jet the bomb out your front end at a target and laugh if they end up crossing it, without automatically detonating if it overlaps.

It also makes TIE Bombers and Punishers better because they could do some fearsome jousting with a double 'attack'.

Three TIE bombers with cluster mine, magnachutes and extra munitions are 25 points, so that's 5 in a squad. The Sabine clause isn't just a Sabine clause - it affects all ships at range 1. So here's the followthrough:

1. TIE bomber drops cluster mine set.
2. Tokens fly forward, most likely impacting with all three, and you can get at least 2 to detonate
3. Each other bomber does the same, making for 12 detonatting tokens.
4. Aside from the rolled damage, every ship at range 1 of the storm takes a further 12 damage.

So... OP?

20 minutes ago, Astech said:

Three TIE bombers with cluster mine, magnachutes and extra munitions are 25 points, so that's 5 in a squad. The Sabine clause isn't just a Sabine clause - it affects all ships at range 1. So here's the followthrough:

1. TIE bomber drops cluster mine set.
2. Tokens fly forward, most likely impacting with all three, and you can get at least 2 to detonate
3. Each other bomber does the same, making for 12 detonatting tokens.
4. Aside from the rolled damage, every ship at range 1 of the storm takes a further 12 damage.

So... OP?

one of the clauses in all versions is that bombs ejected this way do not detonate if they overlap - instead, you move them until they're touching the ship but not overlapping.

4 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

one of the clauses in all versions is that bombs ejected this way do not detonate if they overlap - instead, you move them until they're touching the ship but not overlapping.

Any pilot who actually wants to get use out of the bombs will then naturally ensure that as soon as a ship moves, it overlaps at least 2 cluster mine tokens. With any other overlap mine you can guarantee it'll hit, but with clusters, you can still guarantee 2 hits. This time I did read the card...

7 minutes ago, Astech said:

Any pilot who actually wants to get use out of the bombs will then naturally ensure that as soon as a ship moves, it overlaps at least 2 cluster mine tokens. With any other overlap mine you can guarantee it'll hit, but with clusters, you can still guarantee 2 hits. This time I did read the card...

It's very telegraphed, and doing something like that would require approaching at an angle and placing them near-perfectly to avoid the chance of the other player turning away and making you waste a turn - and dropping bombs in your own flight path, requiring some fancy flying to avoid your own problems.

It also requires having two very weak platforms - the TIE Bomber or Punisher - which, frankly, need a boost as bombers in a faction that likewise needs a boost.

3 hours ago, Odanan said:

Yep, the wording is clumsy...

1- It can be TIE only. That simplify the text a little.

2- Does it need to be Dual Card? The drawback (weapon disabled token) looks too heavy.

Agreed. Yes, the drawback is pretty irritating, but I felt it be thematically important (energy must be reallocated to recharge the launcher). The other alternative would be rerouting power from the shields, but a bomber has no shield. Additionally, if a bomb launch has been well timed, being able to shoot as well before setting up the same thing the next turn seems a touch OP to me. That's a ton of damage coming out the front end. Happy to discuss alternatives though.

43 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

It's very telegraphed, and doing something like that would require approaching at an angle and placing them near-perfectly to avoid the chance of the other player turning away and making you waste a turn - and dropping bombs in your own flight path, requiring some fancy flying to avoid your own problems.

It also requires having two very weak platforms - the TIE Bomber or Punisher - which, frankly, need a boost as bombers in a faction that likewise needs a boost.

Yea, that was the thinking as well. If you wanted to make this thing a missile carrier for any staying power other than bombs, you've got a lot of points sunk into a 6 hull ship. Other effective bombers seem to have broad access to autoblaster, PWT or TLTs it seems, so this is less of a concern for them.

I've tried to incorporate thoughts into the next version here:

47 minutes ago, citruscannon said:

Agreed. Yes, the drawback is pretty irritating, but I felt it be thematically important (energy must be reallocated to recharge the launcher). The other alternative would be rerouting power from the shields, but a bomber has no shield. Additionally, if a bomb launch has been well timed, being able to shoot as well before setting up the same thing the next turn seems a touch OP to me. That's a ton of damage coming out the front end. Happy to discuss alternatives though.

Yea, that was the thinking as well. If you wanted to make this thing a missile carrier for any staying power other than bombs, you've got a lot of points sunk into a 6 hull ship. Other effective bombers seem to have broad access to autoblaster, PWT or TLTs it seems, so this is less of a concern for them.

I've tried to incorporate thoughts into the next version here:

What about receiving an ion token instead? or even: ..."you may receive a weapons disabled token or an ion token to flip this card".

22 minutes ago, Odanan said:

What about receiving an ion token instead? or even: ..."you may receive a weapons disabled token or an ion token to flip this card".

ooh, nice, drain the guns or the engines to overcharge it. yea that works nicely I think.

I like the idea of bombs being thrown forwards.

If I can make one observation; it feels like something far more suited to actual "bombs" than mines - proximity and cluster mines feel far more like something that should be 'placed', whilst the 'drop-on-reveal' bombs are proper 'bombing run' bombs.

Which might make for an interesting alternative to their normal use - if a low PS pilot can fling them out the front, and have them detonate immediately if they hit someone, that might make seismic charges actually useful for a lower PS pilot.

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I like the idea of bombs being thrown forwards.

If I can make one observation; it feels like something far more suited to actual "bombs" than mines - proximity and cluster mines feel far more like something that should be 'placed', whilst the 'drop-on-reveal' bombs are proper 'bombing run' bombs.

Which might make for an interesting alternative to their normal use - if a low PS pilot can fling them out the front, and have them detonate immediately if they hit someone, that might make seismic charges actually useful for a lower PS pilot.

I like this idea.

Magnachutes (torpedo): TIE Only, Dual Card

Side A: Firing - When dropping a bomb without the Action: header, you may use the 4 or 5 forward templates from the front of your base. If the final position of the bomb would overlap a ship, the bomb immediately detonates. After dropping a bomb with the 4 or 5 template, flip this card.

Side B: Recharging - At the start of the combat phase, you may receive an ion token or a weapons disabled token to flip this card.

It's a bit wordy on side A, but it all flows according to the current card text examples we have.

This is great idea! So far it does not seem too op. The wording could probably be simplified though.

Would it be op if it took up a torpedo and missile slot but added a bomb slot? Then you could use bomblet generator.

Also an easier way to achieve the "it lows up when it hits someone effect" would be to not deploy the bomb untill the end of the activation phase.