Just curious: What would be broken about Tie Punishers having an EPT? - 'cause none of them do.

I'm assuming the devs were thinking, "This isn't Scum - don't give them ****" but that's the pessimist in me.

7 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Just curious: What would be broken about Tie Punishers having an EPT? - 'cause none of them do.

I'm assuming the devs were thinking, "This isn't Scum - don't give them ****" but that's the pessimist in me.

the to answer your questions, respectively

1.) absolutely nothing

2.) thematic resonance with the far superior K?

idk I have the feeling that if the punisher were realized in a post wave 9 enviroment, it'd come packaged with a title that'd make its abhorrent profile make sense (like the SF or the ARC)

@FFG: Please give us one or better two propper titles for the TIE Punisher.

48 minutes ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

@FFG: Please give us one or better two propper titles for the TIE Punisher.

The Defender Effect would do nicely

The fact that it competes on the system slot is the main reason i usually ignore ACs.
I find almost every ship that has a system really needs something else in that slot. Unless you have an autoblaster turret too that is.... *grumbles profanity and Nym's name under his breath*

Especially with the Punisher's limited dial the AdvSensors is very, very good. Action on kturns and premove boost are important. The Unguideds are an afterthought on the punisher to me since for the most part he will be focusing anyway.

1 minute ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

The Defender Effect would do nicely

One double sided title, one side for bombs, the other for missiles and torps. Pick which one you want based on your opponent. Lots of big ships, torps. Lots of aces, bombs.

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

The fact that it competes on the system slot is the main reason i usually ignore ACs.
I find almost every ship that has a system really needs something else in that slot. Unless you have an autoblaster turret too that is.... *grumbles profanity and Nym's name under his breath*

Especially with the Punisher's limited dial the AdvSensors is very, very good. Action on kturns and premove boost are important. The Unguideds are an afterthought on the punisher to me since for the most part he will be focusing anyway.

Seriously. AC is a fantastic upgrade, but Advanced Sensors and Fire Control System are rarely going to be better than it, except in the case of ACTLT, and even then it's arguable. Not to mention deathly boring.

In regards to titles, the Punisher could do a number of things.

TIE/IT Bombing Specialist: 0pts - When you deploy a bomb, you may place the 1FWD template as though you were performing a barrelroll and place the bomb there instead of moving your ship. Your template may overlap ships and obstacles.
This gives all punishers some neat bomb shenanigans and makes Deathrain even more irritating since now he has basically a 360 bombplanting radius lol. Slapped the last bit on there because of ruleshark guys going "but its like a barrelroll and that cant touch me!"

or

TIE/IT Ordnance Specialist: 2pts - When you fire a (Torp) or (Missile), ignore any text that tells you to spend a focus or targetlock to fire it. In addition, you may fire it out of arc but the defender rolls 1 additional defense die.
Lets the Punisher not have to joust which usually ends in its own death while limiting its targets a little. Even Redline would like this as that completely frees up his slot for AdvSensors since theres no way he would spend 2 targetlocks in one round anymore.

Ooh, sideways bombs, I'd not thought of that one.

These were my thoughts, crossposted from another thread:

TIE/it

Title, TIE Punisher only. 0 points. Dual card:

TIE/it: Targetting Laser Pods: After attacking with a primary weapon, you may make an attack with an equipped secondary weapon.

After you discard an equipped secondary weapon, you may re-equip it.

You may equip one additional modification costing 0 points.

TIE/it: Expanded Mine Pods: When you drop a [bomb] upgrade, you may either drop two identical tokens, one using the [1 bank right] template and 1 using the [1 bank left] template or if the card would require you to discard it, after you discard it, you may re-equip it.

Modification, 0 points, Imperial only. When a bomb token you dropped detonates, choose one ship affected by the detonation. Assign that ship stress and focus tokens until it has at least one of each.

When you are ionised, treat the 1 straight manoeuvre you perform as green.

You may equip any number of additional modification upgrades. The total squad points you spend on modification upgrades cannot exceed 2.

OR

Modification, 0 points, Imperial only. After you drop a [bomb] upgrade, you may perform a free action from your action bar.

When you are ionised, treat the 1 straight manoeuvre you perform as green.

You may equip any number of additional modification upgrades. The total squad points you spend on modification upgrades cannot exceed 2.

Both of those are a little powerful for a 0pt card.
Endless munitions, so technically a -2pt title since no need for EMs.
I've seen the duped mine drop before and uh no thats insane. You have any idea how brutal Deathrain would be dumping clusterproxies/conners or a V of deathclustermines? Its both added damage and a much, much wider coverage area.

Firing ordnance after your main gun is fine, since 2die gun. Probably the best that would come from that is either somehow landing 2 damage or forcing a token spend prior to the ordnance.

The big thing from the ordnance one is the combo with FCS meaning that you have basically got Deadeye as well as a chance to strip tokens.

I have no objection to making Deathrain awesome. He has a VAST cost. With the bare minimum of a single Cluster Mine and the title, he's 30 points. Loaded with EM and enough Clusters to double them up more than twice, he's 36. He'd *better* be good. And he still folds like a wet paper towel unless you also give him LWF for another 2 points, and he still have a very real risk of hurting himself with his own mines unless you're dropping them behind.

Punishers are *ludicrously* overcosted, they need something ludicrously powerful to make them good, somehow. Deathrain naked costs only 2 points less than FENN for crying out loud.

Worse yet, it lacks any super deadly amazing pilot ability to make the otherwise bad platform amazing.

Kwing: Besides abusing Sabine and Adv SLAM, its horrible.... Outright HORRIBLE ship. But Miranda's ability and TLT access (and outright breaking it due to 2 attacks and not being forced to reduce both attacks) makes her difficult to pin down and she regens while doing damage. Conclusion? Miranda is insane, Kwing will suck *** once Sabine gets nerfed otherwise.
Scurrg: W/o the title its more like a fat turret with a bomb slot than anything else. Not bad but Scum have so many ridiculous things why run it. Add the Title and use Nym, for 40pts it becomes what i personally think is a bigger threat than Dengar at like 15pts cheaper.

Punisher: No title, no SLAM abuse, abilities are laughably tame in comparison, and has no gimick unique to it no other heavy ordnance user has. But, since it has no title yet, that can be fixed. Currently the only thing it has over both the other two is 2 missile slots....oooooooo!
And god i hope it does lol.

Id go for three separate refit titles -2 to 0 pts each. If there is an "or" I have not decided yet but there should be only one option available. It is not meant like you could choose during list building.

A) STRATEGIC BOMBER

+1 Bomb slot, -1 torp slot, no missiles at all, + 1 EPT or TECH or 2nd SYS slot

B) MISSILE GUNSHIP

+1 Misisle slot, -1 torp slot, no bombs at all, either +1 EPT, TECH, CREW or 2nd SYS

C) ELECTRONIC WARFARE

+1 Shield, -1 Missile slot, -1 torp slot, -1 Bomb slot, +2 CREW slots, +1 EPT, TECH or 2nd SYS slot

Two more aces would also be nice.

None of that actually fixes its issues though. It needs to be made better without making it more expensive, varying its number of slots doesn't help that.

How to fix it then? Or, whats actually missing? Reduce cost? +1 AGI? Dial and Boost seems ok?

Punisher needs additional ordnance effects, durability boosts, mobility boosts, or price cuts to become effective. I cant even think of a new pilot with the current frame that would make it incredible without an obviously broken as hell ability (When a friendly bomb detonates, double its damage and friendlies are not affected)

The two absolute most common "fixes" i see people give the punisher is basically free EMs or just giving it an EPT. That literally wont do anything, it never gets off more than 2 anyway since it has no way to avoid the joust (either flatout evade it or skirt to the side and shoot that way, it WILL get hit by the joust). And flatout giving it an EPT wont help much because that makes it MORE expensive for little gain.

Another title idea i had was improving its joust:
TIE/IT X5: 0pts - When defending against an attack in your firing arc and you have shields, only remove 1 shield if you suffer any number of hits/crits instead of the total amount.
Makes it similar to Quickdraw though in a different way. Until the shields are gone, you dont want to hit it except if you are out of arc. Take out the shields, now you dont care.

Really its main issue is the joust ive noticed, and that helps it a ton.

6 minutes ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

How to fix it then? Or, whats actually missing? Reduce cost? +1 AGI? Dial and Boost seems ok?

Three options, of which it probably needs one in huge measure, 2 in decent measure, or all three in milder measure:

Make it cheaper.

Make it shootier.

Make it tougher.

(Make it nimbler is another, but not one I think it really needs)

Personally, I prefer 1 and 2, together. Hence, an upgrade that strips it of the need for EM or multiple copies of bombs, and potentially makes its damage much higher and much more front loaded without requiring a setup round to get the lock, and allowing double modified shots for Redline and single modified shots for everyone else from the word go, or wildly improved bombing capabilities.

I like that option to make it tougher. Make it stress-free Countdown until its shields are gone.

15 minutes ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

How to fix it then? Or, whats actually missing? Reduce cost? +1 AGI? Dial and Boost seems ok?

My solution has been to advocate for dual fire capability. It would be the only ship in the game to get off 2 torps and/or missiles per round. It would make it deadlier, and allow it to get off all its goodies ere dying.

20 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

....why?

Seismic breaks the asteroids up which gives your opponent more room to dodge mines. If he dodges a mine but hits a rock im not exactly upset.

1. Because when he lands on (or near) a rock to dodge the mine you blow it up to deal damage.

2. Because you also have to dodge those rocks and mines and being able to remove a rock of your choice is juts more control over the shape of the battlefield.

I'm still mad I can't use Redline+FCS+cluster missile for maximum effect

STILL MAD

Blame TLT for that one.

TLT caused too many doubletapping of "when attacking" effects. It also dodged Ruthlessness + TLT, though that was definitely not a thought when it changed.

@Magnus Grendel

Here you go ?

6 minutes ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

It just had to be done.

Heavily work in progress.

On 13.7.2017 at 11:06 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Also; we need a Frank Castle themed TIE Punisher repaint.

Is it a requirement that all members have a Deathrain painted Punisher? Just looks so badass!

2 minutes ago, Chibi-Nya said:

Is it a requirement that all members have a Deathrain painted Punisher? Just looks so badass!

No its not a requirement. ?

Thx, I realy dig the looks of it. Althou painting it is a real pain.

What the TIE Punisher needed, was the pre-timing nerf Dead Eye R4agro combo. But since it doesn't have an astro slot and it doesn't have an EPT slot it gets nothing. If it had some regen it is good as a tank, but that's about it.