Yeah it's gonna take some effort to work around him and that's a value regardless. That said I'm tempted to form the unexpected Crab/Crane alliance deck and put Above Question of Kisada 
I feel like Crab is screaming denial strategy considering the defensive theme, dishonor and character removal. Seems like Crab/Scorpion is gonna be a natural fit. can't wait for their spoilers.
33 minutes ago, Bayushi Bajie said:Also Kuni+Cloud the Mind while always an option defensively, can be a thing offensively with the Yojimbo. Might want to add a Mystic though for consistency.
Now there's a dangerous idea...I'm assuming you mean playing Cloud the Mind on your own Yojimbo, to blank out the printed restriction that says you can't declare it as an attacker?
1 minute ago, Zesu Shadaban said:Now there's a dangerous idea...I'm assuming you mean playing Cloud the Mind on your own Yojimbo, to blank out the printed restriction that says you can't declare it as an attacker?
After they attack and the Kuni straighten the Yojimbo from defending, of course.
Love Hiruma Ambusher and Hiruma Yojimbo. I might be biased however.
Of course Kisada is far beyond a simple servant such as my self.
::We're not worthy! We're not worthy! ::
35 minutes ago, shosuko said:Is there a link to Intimidating Hida? I don't see it in the forum here.
Dishonor could be right around Scorpion clan reveal - Crab + Scorpion or Scorpion + Crab may well BOTH be able to play to dishonor.
Someone spoiled it pages back.
Also though I love the Crab (my first clan actually starting), the last arc of the old l5r where the Yasuki were better than the Scorpion at slander, leaves me a bitter feeling.
The Pincer Alliance might be a thing again, but hey I can swim 
a dedicated dishonor deck is made ready straight up to an arc launch or in these case, product launch might be a bad idea..no matter how i expertly manuever it or explain the concept, people just tend to go NPE on dishonor. Last it did was when Unfortunate Incident, Share the Blame,etc was on starter deck and sad to say, I was on a receiving end of a lot of verbal assault from my playgroup ^^
Just 1 Yasuki card that we know of so far? Makes me sad.
if people don't think they enough cheap personalities, there's always the two 1 cost neutrals.
1 hour ago, Bayushi Bajie said:Someone spoiled it pages back.
Also though I love the Crab (my first clan actually starting), the last arc of the old l5r where the Yasuki were better than the Scorpion at slander, leaves me a bitter feeling.
The Pincer Alliance might be a thing again, but hey I can swim
a dedicated dishonor deck is made ready straight up to an arc launch or in these case, product launch might be a bad idea..no matter how i expertly manuever it or explain the concept, people just tend to go NPE on dishonor. Last it did was when Unfortunate Incident, Share the Blame,etc was on starter deck and sad to say, I was on a receiving end of a lot of verbal assault from my playgroup ^^
What is "NPE"?
My only reservation toward dishonor decks is whether they can be balanced against all clans. What we don't want is for dishonor decks to be so effective that certain clans automatically lose to them unless you build a deck specifically designed to counter them. For this reason, I prefer the idea someone suggested of making more dishonor effects be choices (e.g. discard a card or lose an honor; dishonor your character or bow him). This allows dishonor to be mitigated somewhat, while still giving a penalty.
I'm very curious how dishonor decks will be able to handle Crab. With so many of them having low glory the penalty really doesn't matter. Maybe they will have cards that will play off of the dishonored status.
On the other hand, it will be interesting to see Crab face an honor rocket deck. They may have a lot of base power but it looks like a lot of cards will be based off of defense. It really could hurt if your opponent never attacks.
I really don't like Kisada's ability. It can be neutralized by an opponent winning a conflict, which shouldn't be too hard for some. And it only cancels the first action, so an opponent will just use the action they don't care about first. All it seems to do is inconvenience an opponent.
3 hours ago, Bayushi Bajie said:a dedicated dishonor deck is made ready straight up to an arc launch or in these case, product launch might be a bad idea..no matter how i expertly manuever it or explain the concept, people just tend to go NPE on dishonor. Last it did was when Unfortunate Incident, Share the Blame,etc was on starter deck and sad to say, I was on a receiving end of a lot of verbal assault from my playgroup ^^
One thing to consider is that, in the CCG, dishonor limited/removed the opposing player's ability from participating in the game or stalled the game. The LCG seems to be designed such that this does not happen again.
1 hour ago, JJ48 said:What is "NPE"?
Negative Play Experience. Shorthand for "the player actively disliked playing the game."
The art for Vengeful Berserker was originally for a Damned Shadowlands Berserker Crab Clan character named Hida Bachiatari. The art is an extremely strange choice in my opinion. There are so many other Crab Clan berserkers I feel there could have been a more appropriate one chosen.
Hida Tenshu would have been my personal pick.
47 minutes ago, TechnoGolem said:I'm very curious how dishonor decks will be able to handle Crab. With so many of them having low glory the penalty really doesn't matter. Maybe they will have cards that will play off of the dishonored status.
I thought I read somewhere that you lose honor when dishonored characters leave battle. If that's true, a dishonor deck may give the Crab pause to sacrifice characters if they keep pushing their own honor down to do so. Obviously this would mean though that the opponent needs to manage honor loss in other areas, such as honor dial bids.
Edited by Zesu ShadabanHida Takuji would have been another good choice, his old card ability actually doubled his force (military skill).
Hida Ayahi has always been one of my favorites: http://www.imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=11145,#hashid=b133cf1878b08faac5eab5c204e78d96,#cardcount=7
Ok, let's take a look at these cards now that I have some actual time.
Funeral Pyre: Not shabby since it does work with the sacrifice theme and lets you cycle personalities that are going to leave the game that turn anyways. I'd run it over the Borderlands Fortifications and maybe with the other card draw holding. Don't know if I want 3x of them or just 2x to dig for since Crab might like to plant several personalities into play every turn.
Hida Guardian: We don't know what she does yet but she's a 1/1 for 1 to feed the machine.
Hiruma Yojimbo: She fits the defense theme of the clan but does little beyond that. She's cheap enough to feed the machine though.
The Mountain Does Not Fall: It's ok but requires careful use so your selected character just doesn't get bowed from other actions or removed. It definitely helps the strategy of defending and then counterattacking.
Hiruma Ambusher: I really wish this guy affected either attacking or defending. His low influence cost might serve to have him potentially see play in other clans.
Way of the Crab: Oh man, this can just be a killer during some plays and will dictate what you or your opponent will do against a Crab clan deck. No longer can someone simply play their champion turn 1. Dragon has to fear building towers (personalities with lots of stuff on them) in the match up. Yes, you can potentially play around it, but that seems like one of the core strategies of the Crab: constantly force your opponent into making optimal decisions at all times.
Hida Tomo-chan: That targeted removal could just be painful at times but usually only used when your going to target a personality with fate on them or a tower. I feel bad for the Dragon in this match up.
Steadfast Witch Hunter: I like her. Untap effects are powerful in the game and she plays around with the machine.
Vengeful Berserker: He's a big one that will probably serve as a primary military attacker along side the Witch Hunter or the unique engineer.
Shiro Nishiyama: Meh.
The Bear: He's a bit silly and another card your opponent has to play around. I've seen talk that he's the best champion but the Dragon one might be as good since there's so many possibilities for that copy action.
2 hours ago, JJ48 said:What is "NPE"?
Negative Play Experience
Something that not only makes you lose, but makes you hate your opponent, yourself, and especially the game while you lose.
Land Destruction Decks in the early days of M:TG are a prime example.
Haven't seen anyone post this but this video has a new card, Intimidating Hida. Cost of 3, 4/2 stats, glory of 1, that Reaction: After an opponent passes on declaring a conflict - that player loses 1 honor.
So if Doji Challenger is the best 3-fate does Hiruma Ambusher's ability to turn off her ability make him the best 2-fate?
6 hours ago, Kubernes said:Haven't seen anyone post this but this video has a new card, Intimidating Hida. Cost of 3, 4/2 stats, glory of 1, that Reaction: After an opponent passes on declaring a conflict - that player loses 1 honor.
Here's a so-so image I grabbed from this:
I'm very happy with all political stats we're seeing on these Crab cards. I was expecting dashes "-" and zeros "0". I know Crab will still likely need more characters out than some clans during political conflicts, but I was fearing the Crab having no presence/impact during political conflicts (They're too busy defending the wall to go to court). If you use your influence in the conflict deck to beef them up even further for political situations I feel they'll be just as good as Lion or Dragon at this time.
I've been thinking about the precise wording of Hiruma Yojimbo. If there are Conflict cards which move characters to conflicts (similar to the ability on Shinjo Outrider) then it'll avoid her text since she is never declared as an attacker.
Crab with Unicorn influence, perhaps?
18 hours ago, Cold Iron1 said:With Intimidating Hida you can force your opponent to declare a conflict or louse honor. Up to 6 if a play set is 3 (I haven't head but it usually is)
Assuming you have all three Intimidating Hidas out, the most you can make your opponent lose honor for skipping an attack is 3 a turn (since each one can only be triggered once, of course).
As for Hida Tomonatsu, I think you still have to consider her ability as a very useful gravy on top of just a strong character. She's a 3/2 for 3, and has a rare 2 Glory for Crab. Honor her (this is the new L5R, Crab can honor people as easily as anyone outside of Crane or Lion now), and you have a 5/4. Kuni Witchhunter support means you can press an attack with those excellent stats and still save her for defending if you need to. If you don't snipe an opposing character on defense, who cares? You still have a 5/4 in play. And she's a Bushi if you feel like importing battle tricks from your honorable Lion cousins up north.
It's not like her ability is useless or her stats are pathetic. She can rumble quite well on both fields of battle, and you have a random built-in defense against enemies with huge stacks of Fate, random Dragon stacks of swords and attachments who claim they have a character under them but nobody can find them in the mess, or even, as stated up-thread, sometimes just putting a wuss back on top of your opponent's deck so they're forced to redraw them.
I'm still getting a feeling that far too many players are still not getting the feeling that this new game is very much going to be one of outreading your opponent. Outplaying them will not be so much blanket effects that shut down their cards, but getting a read on their line of play and outmaneuvering them while still advancing your own line. Tomonatsu gives you options. Options are awesome for this sort of game. You don't ever have to use her ability to make it still impactful as a board-altering effect, because your opponent will have to consider that you will be able to use it in any battle they're swinging into her.
A bit surprised as to all the negative feelings about the crab cards. My initial impression after looking through all the cards, is that possibly they have the most options, and are the most powerful currently with what we have seen. I definitely wont be playing them myself, but I am the most afraid of playing against them currently, they seem quite oppressive.
I think they look strong. People seem to really be undervaluing those sacrifice effects. Also they have quite a few abilities that draw cards, which I feel will help them resist honor based denial strategies. I'm happy. Could use another Kuni card so we can actually put neutral spell cards like Cloud the Mind to good use.
7 minutes ago, sickqt said:A bit surprised as to all the negative feelings about the crab cards. My initial impression after looking through all the cards, is that possibly they have the most options, and are the most powerful currently with what we have seen. I definitely wont be playing them myself, but I am the most afraid of playing against them currently, they seem quite oppressive.
My only issue with Crab is...this is a game where offense is required to break provinces and Crab were given a relatively limited number of actions that can be triggered on offense.
Stopping an opponent's attack is fantastic. But if you can't push a conflict through on the back end, it may end up being all for naught.
That said, I have played defensive decks in many games (particularly Night's Watch in Thrones) and the design almost always reaches a point at which effective defense is successfully converted to a win strategy. I fully expect that to happen with Crab as well.
The dishonor tech they have is VERY interesting to me. If they expand on that, maybe if they can get a card that makes their opponent lose honor for losing a conflict as the attacker (Reaction: After your opponent loses a conflict as the attacker, they lose 1 or 2 honor), then you could quickly realize the potential of a clan that can go offensive to take the opponent's provinces out or, if their opponent is getting aggressive and pushing through challenges is becoming too costly defensively, sitting back and winning on defense where you have more control (declaring defenders after attackers are declared, first action during defense, province effects, etc) while simultaneously dishonoring your opponent may become a legitimately powerful strategy.
We'll have to see :).
We definitely will have to see! I feel like numbers wise, with sacrifice effects crab has the highest offense though! And with having cards that cause your opponent to not only force your opponent to attack you, I also feel like you have ways to stop said attack, then horribly punish them for doing again as you forced them to do and counter it back. It may play out completely different, but for now it seems scary to me!