What do people think it's going to look like?

I'm guessing it'll be a status like honor/dishonor. Second Guess, I bet Yogo Junzo will be a neutral champ that you can play out of any stronghold

What are other folks ideas?

If FFG tells the same story (which I doubt and would be disapppinted if they did), Yogo Junzo is still a long way from being the shadowlands Champion, just saying.

The only way I can think of having a Shadowlands play would be by having a Role card, from what I understand of those.

I've said this before but something tells me that there won't be a Shadowlands faction as such in this version of the game. There needs to be too much bending over backwards to put that massive square peg in all of our round little holes. Normally I'm down for that, but here, it sounds uncomfortable.

I'm seriously hoping for there to be a special edition product(or maybe even a whole game type down the line?) that gives players the opportunity to play around with and against the Horde directly in a way that wouldn't compromise the core game.

Has anyone played the Netrunner Campaign thing? I could see an L5R shadowlands game winding up being something like that.

Another way it could happen in game without everything going pear shaped would be to have a cycle or series of cards that represent shadowlands, corruption and general Taint in the form of dishonouring or weirdly costed neutrals or the odd in clan card. But I personally wouldn't want a shadowlands thing forced into this game. Never thought I'd say that, but I feel this game has plenty to be getting on with just the way it is.

I like the idea of shadowlands as a role card.

I agree that most likely we'll see shadowlands as corruptions of "normal" decks, without it's own stronghold

Shadowlands could be a faction like Tyranids were in Conquest.

*Cant ally with anyone

*Mono faction released in a deluxe expansion

Or they could make a Siege style set that pits 3 players vs the stronger shadowlands player in a raid style game. I loved Siege: Clan War and think that if every year or two they made a new siege deck, based on the current plot, it would be a really cool thing to look forward to.

It's been said before, but I'll say it again - The Honor Dial mechanic for drawing cards basically makes Shadowlands as a playable faction unto itself an impossibility if they intend to retain any legitimate setting flavor, and I doubt they're looking to repeat the same square peg/round hole mistake AEG was never able to fix.

I'd much rather see "corruption" as an option for all decks through neutral cards rather than "Playable faction wrecks the game."

4 hours ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

too much bending over backwards to put that massive square peg in all of our round little holes. Normally I'm down for that, but here, it sounds uncomfortable.

I'm not the best at Dirty Minds, but I like to think I can keep my mind out of the gutter fairly well. But I'm sure you wrote this way on purpose.

10 minutes ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

It's been said before, but I'll say it again - The Honor Dial mechanic for drawing cards basically makes Shadowlands as a playable faction unto itself an impossibility if they intend to retain any legitimate setting flavor, and I doubt they're looking to repeat the same square peg/round hole mistake AEG was never able to fix.

I'd much rather see "corruption" as an option for all decks through neutral cards rather than "Playable faction wrecks the game."

And I've said before and I'll say again, nothing about the Honor Dial prevents shadowlands. I see nothing preventing shadowlands to win by honor or lose by dishonor. A Shadowlands "honor" victory just means that your opponent has stooped to such dishonorable tactics that the shadowlands looks honorable in comparison. A Shadowlands "dishonor" victory just means that your opponent has shown the rest of the empire that you are a threat and they join together and destroy you. All of that seems to be still contain all the "legitimate setting flavor"

1 minute ago, JRosen9 said:

And I've said before and I'll say again, nothing about the Honor Dial prevents shadowlands. I see nothing preventing shadowlands to win by honor or lose by dishonor. A Shadowlands "honor" victory just means that your opponent has stooped to such dishonorable tactics that the shadowlands looks honorable in comparison. A Shadowlands "dishonor" victory just means that your opponent has shown the rest of the empire that you are a threat and they join together and destroy you. All of that seems to be still contain all the "legitimate setting flavor"

The trouble is that there is no 1/1 relationship of dishonor to threat level, except in polite discussion, which (in the Old Legend at least) is no place for speaking frankly about the Shadowlands.

Ah man - I came here looking for some high drama theatre production with an Oni cast in the lead role.

Bad pun/joke aside I could see the 1v3 mega shadowlands deck being a really fun way to bring them into the setting and provide a little more variety in gameplay.

1 hour ago, Taki said:

I like the idea of shadowlands as a role card.

I agree that most likely we'll see shadowlands as corruptions of "normal" decks, without it's own stronghold

I like this approach the best, honestly. Also, I like the idea of the Spider Clan being an entirely Conflict side faction, without a stronghold of its own but one you can include in your deck if you choose.

16 minutes ago, JRosen9 said:

And I've said before and I'll say again, nothing about the Honor Dial prevents shadowlands...

Yes. It does. The Shadowlands is known to be the area around the literal gates of hell. The inhabitants of this region are creatures and madmen bent on the eradication of life. Flavor-wise, there is no conceivable way that the Shadowlands could look honorable compared to anyone. Even a bandit has lines he would not cross. The honor dial doesn't make sense. Dueling doesn't make sense. Imperial Favor doesn't make sense. Claiming rings doesn't make sense. Political conflicts with the Shadowlands doesn't make sense. Adding a Shadowlands as a regular playable faction would destroy all flavor integrity the game has.

7 minutes ago, sndwurks said:

I like this approach the best, honestly. Also, I like the idea of the Spider Clan being an entirely Conflict side faction, without a stronghold of its own but one you can include in your deck if you choose.

That would be really cool!

50 minutes ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

I'm not the best at Dirty Minds, but I like to think I can keep my mind out of the gutter fairly well. But I'm sure you wrote this way on purpose.

Moi? You would dishonor me. This is a respectable forum. I have no time for Shamefur Dishpre I mean such shameful displays...

I think that's the best option. Shadowlands influence as a shortcut to power and an element of temptation for characters in the established factions. The Spider as a full participant in the empire was always tough to swallow because it's hard to justify why the other clans don't just unite to expel the Spiders. The Spider as a dishonorable influence that your clan can call on makes more sense within the current framework.

The Spider's as an infiltrating element inside the empire's borders I think was when I liked them the best. Also considering they already showcase unrest in the Heimin population of the Dragon lands I always liked the idea of the Spider's as a sort of rebellious working class movement in Rokugan. I remember stories in the 3rd edition RPG books of the Spider's setting themselves up as heroes to the Heimin population, and I always thought that was a cool idea to sow discontent inside the empire's borders.

Please ... the Spider (or any similar) was a terrible mistake, a nonsense in this beautiful setting, and unnecessary in Rokugan in terms of lore. The role of the corruption in the setting was destroyed with the normalization of a corrupted super-dark clan...

22 minutes ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

Moi? You would dishonor me. This is a respectable forum. I have no time for Shamefur Dishpre I mean such shameful displays...

For a split second I was bracing myself for a cringeworthy furry joke there...

3 hours ago, phillos said:

I think that's the best option. Shadowlands influence as a shortcut to power and an element of temptation for characters in the established factions. The Spider as a full participant in the empire was always tough to swallow because it's hard to justify why the other clans don't just unite to expel the Spiders. The Spider as a dishonorable influence that your clan can call on makes more sense within the current framework.

The Spider's as an infiltrating element inside the empire's borders I think was when I liked them the best. Also considering they already showcase unrest in the Heimin population of the Dragon lands I always liked the idea of the Spider's as a sort of rebellious working class movement in Rokugan. I remember stories in the 3rd edition RPG books of the Spider's setting themselves up as heroes to the Heimin population, and I always thought that was a cool idea to sow discontent inside the empire's borders.

That would be such a cool way to do it. So likhe cards wouldn't be affected by influence value, so you've got a clan that exists entirely within a framework of existing within the clans, rather than alongside them. I like it. Beatiful way to design a faction too!

At this point, one can just get the Crab cards, stick some new art and name fields on them, and call it Shadowlands.

26 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

At this point, one can just get the Crab cards, stick some new art and name fields on them, and call it Shadowlands.

Don't even need new art or name for that Berserker

4 hours ago, Daigotsu Steve said:

Moi? You would dishonor me. This is a respectable forum. I have no time for Shamefur Dishpre I mean such shameful displays...

I'd not heard of that meme until now. I find I can forgive the wonky flavor of that card, now that I know it's a Shogun 2 nod.

6 hours ago, sndwurks said:

I like this approach the best, honestly. Also, I like the idea of the Spider Clan being an entirely Conflict side faction, without a stronghold of its own but one you can include in your deck if you choose.

I'd love to see spider reworked to be the clans on the other side of the wall, still imperial but living in over run places

20 hours ago, player2636234 said:

Yes. It does. The Shadowlands is known to be the area around the literal gates of hell. The inhabitants of this region are creatures and madmen bent on the eradication of life. Flavor-wise, there is no conceivable way that the Shadowlands could look honorable compared to anyone. Even a bandit has lines he would not cross. The honor dial doesn't make sense. Dueling doesn't make sense. Imperial Favor doesn't make sense. Claiming rings doesn't make sense. Political conflicts with the Shadowlands doesn't make sense. Adding a Shadowlands as a regular playable faction would destroy all flavor integrity the game has.

I guess we should just throw out Pekkle oni and every other infiltration/political shadowlands creature that ever existed. You know all those creatures that went to court and such. Let's also forget all the times the honorable clans have done dishonorable acts which can be seen as worse than the shadowlands. You know like murdering an emperor or flaying your son to use as a war banner as you march on the capital. Let's also throw out all the dark oracles to. Finally let's throw out the fact that in the recent crab fiction an obsidian armored shadowlands creature basically dueled Kisada.

Wait all of those things existed, giving shadowlands a flavor connection to honor, to the rings, to dueling, and times when clans have acted more dishonorable. Guess it kinda does make sense.

Look, I'm not saying shadowlands will ever be a playable faction. I am saying that saying it's impossible for them with the mechanics is wrong. Personally, I believe shadowlands has the best chance of any faction to be the next playable faction

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 10:19 AM, player2636234 said:

Yes. It does. The Shadowlands is known to be the area around the literal gates of hell. The inhabitants of this region are creatures and madmen bent on the eradication of life. Flavor-wise, there is no conceivable way that the Shadowlands could look honorable compared to anyone. Even a bandit has lines he would not cross. The honor dial doesn't make sense. Dueling doesn't make sense. Imperial Favor doesn't make sense. Claiming rings doesn't make sense. Political conflicts with the Shadowlands doesn't make sense. Adding a Shadowlands as a regular playable faction would destroy all flavor integrity the game has.

Someone didn't play the last game... or really read the lore...

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The inhabitants of this region are creatures and madmen bent on the eradication of life.

What was the City of the Lost? Also, its the CORRUPTION of all life, not just its destruction.

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Flavor-wise, there is no conceivable way that the Shadowlands could look honorable compared to anyone.

*First Crab fiction literally has an oni that duels the champion.

*What was Okura no Oni

*Implying the Lost don't exist

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Even a bandit has lines he would not cross.

Yeah, lines clans like the scorpion and crab would cross if needed too. Remember, Scorpion still has Ninja. Even Oni are less hated than that ****.

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The honor dial doesn't make sense.

You realize the honor dial isn't the CLAN'S honor, its representing YOUR (The player's) honor and how much you are willing to abandon for advantage. In this game honorable is represented by using what your opponent can clearly see, such as cards in play or in your provinces, dishonorable is using cards that were secrets, cards from hand and such which would be seen in setting as more underhanded.

THAT is why you lose honor if you bid 4 and they bid 1, they (Your opponent) are fighting with less tricks up their sleeves and in setting that is more honorable of them. You would be relying on surprises and other sneaky plays by drawing more cards, which is legal, but less honorable then fighting with what you have shown. That's the philosophy of it all. It has nothing to do with the clan or faction you are playing, otherwise EVER bidding more then one honor in clans like Crane and Lion would make as little sense.

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Dueling doesn't make sense.

Shadowlands Dueling was a theme MULTIPLE times in the life time of the CCG, the game actually ended with the Shadowland's faction having a dedicated dueling deck, with Ogre Duelists and Kokujin monks being some of their best cards.

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Imperial Favor doesn't make sense.

Implying Shadowland infiltrators cant earn the Emperor's favor in disguise.

Implying that the Shadowland's using the imperial favor cant be the Emperor chastising the other clan for their failures up to that point.

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Claiming rings doesn't make sense.

There are literal Dark Oracles of the various rings and multiple Monk orders from the shadowlands. The Rings are universal.

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Political conflicts with the Shadowlands doesn't make sense.

Implying the Lost never politically interacted... oh wait, they did multiple times.

Implying characters like Yajinden don't actively take part in courts

Implying the RPG school for the Daigotsu Courtier school simply didn't exist

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Adding a Shadowlands as a regular playable faction would destroy all flavor integrity the game has.

"Adding the most flavor relevant faction as a regular playable faction, like it was for the entirety of the previous game short the first year, would destroy all flavor integrity the game has."

ftfy

0/10 bad bait, you could have at least tried to mention actually issues with the game and shadowlands instead of super generic and unreal ones.

People seem to imagine that the card design space for a BRAND NEW GAME, that we literally haven't seen even half of the core set for, is so bogged down that things are IMPOSSIBLE. How little faith in FFG some people have.