Obviously if you have a reveal drop bomb and you are ioned you cannot drop it as you have no dial to reveal.

Problem: Genius does not mention you need to have a dial assigned to you/revealed to drop the bomb after your maneuver.

Can he let you drop a bomb after an Ion move, even though you normally cant do that?
(if it isnt obvious im trying to find a way to neuter a certain Nym build)

Genius allows you to drop a bomb that normally requires revealing a dial after executing a maneuver instead. Since an ion has you execute a 1-white straight, I don't see why Genius wouldn't let you drop a bomb then.

yeah thats the consensus i was coming to reading FAQ and such i was hoping i missed something though lol

I had an idea that Kestal was the ultimate Nym counter since she can basically auto-ion his Geniusy-butt and easily stick in range2 to dodge autoblasters or range1 to dodge tlts. Problem came with Genius letting him drop bombs anyway, which obviously i wouldnt want to be near him if ion didnt stop it.
Back to the drawing board....

I agree. It says:

If you are equipped with a bomb that can be dropped when you reveal your maneuver, you may drop the bomb after you execute your maneuver instead.

It doesn't say anything about your ability to drop the bomb normally this turn .

When you think about it, it's weird indeed, because of the word instead. But I think it should be ok.

I never realized this... "Genius" is truly a Genius ;D

This rubs me wrong.

Tonight, Nym had a bomblette undetonated, got Ioned, then next turn moved forward only a few millimeters on the ion maneuver due to a bump. My opponent insisted he could drop another bomblette with Genius after the ion move, resulting in both bomblettes sitting basically on top of each other.

I strenuously argued that Genius should not impart a bomb opportunity that would not have existed in the first place due to the ion effect. But I admitted it was a quandary based on rules as written. So I let it go, as the other players in the room felt it was allowed.

I had all three of my ships in range of the second bomblette, two in range of the first. As it turned out, of the ten bomb dice I had to roll, there was exactly one hit...on my fully shielded QuickDraw. Evil laughter, and QD made the free killshot on Nym...I told him the Xwing gods had judged his reasoning wanting, and ruled with the dice that his post-ion bomblette should not have been dropped.

I await the FAQ clarifying this.

I once thought it was pretty obvious but after reading the FAQ and RRG I'm on the fence.

My personal opinion on this is that you can NOT use "Genius" to drop a bomb when Ionized. My basis for this is the wording "when you reveal YOUR maneuver" and "after you execute YOUR maneuver" as opposed to executing "A" maneuver. That seems to imply that you do need to have a maneuver that you have assigned in order to trigger "Genius". If "Genius" did specify "A" maneuver then I would say yes, drop the bomb when ionized for sure but he does not. It could be just an oversight in the wording during design but we gotta go RAW. RAI is very not clear in this case and this might not have even come up in play test design.

However, I will admit this is far from open and shut. This has technically been an issue for a long time but until Scum Nym arrived "Genius" was basically never ever played and Ions are relatively rarely played so the question hadn't come up. There is definitely merit to the argument that he does let you drop a bomb but this needs an official ruling.

It's a pita given the combo. But raw says yes, and i don't see that changing. "Assuming no stress an action bomb could be used in that senario, what's the difference?" will be my gut feeling on the ultimate outcome.

Ion maneuver is a maneuver. It is the maneuver your ship is doing, so it is your maneuver. Genius lets you drop a maneuver bomb after executing your maneuver. nothing in the rules or cards should disallow this.

2 hours ago, skotothalamos said:

Ion maneuver is a maneuver. It is the maneuver your ship is doing, so it is your maneuver. Genius lets you drop a maneuver bomb after executing your maneuver. nothing in the rules or cards should disallow this.

I think basically anything that uses the template and moves your ship can trigger Genius except the explicit boost/barrel roll actions.

Daredevil would let you drop for instance. RAC crew, if it was possible to equip. Adaptive Ailerons, etc.

9 hours ago, sharrrp said:

My personal opinion on this is that you can NOT use "Genius" to drop a bomb when Ionized. My basis for this is the wording "when you reveal YOUR maneuver" and "after you execute YOUR maneuver" as opposed to executing "A" maneuver. That seems to imply that you do need to have a maneuver that you have assigned in order to trigger "Genius". If "Genius" did specify "A" maneuver then I would say yes, drop the bomb when ionized for sure but he does not. It could be just an oversight in the wording during design but we gotta go RAW. RAI is very not clear in this case and this might not have even come up in play test design.

However, I will admit this is far from open and shut. This has technically been an issue for a long time but until Scum Nym arrived "Genius" was basically never ever played and Ions are relatively rarely played so the question hadn't come up. There is definitely merit to the argument that he does let you drop a bomb but this needs an official ruling.

Good point but I am afraid that would need to be "the" not "your". "Your" here indicate only a maneuver performed by the ship. So although I am also not sure I would expect that to work as you suggested if the wordnig was:

If you are equipped with a bomb that can be dropped when you reveal your maneuver, you may drop the bomb after you execute the maneuver instead.

Note that "your" is used also in first part of the sentence and it refers only to ownership of a dial (so you cannot drop the bomb after any dial is revealed) and the same is in case of latter, it refers only to who performs a maneuver not which one it is. Otherwise if a ship was having Navigator and Genius you would not be able to drop the bomb after maneuver if you adjusted the dial (as it is different than the maneuver revealed). As it is today, Genius works with Ion...

As for that I was always suggesting that Ion effect should not be considered "a maneuver" (to avoid similar interactions) but become separate effect, similar to maneuver.

15 hours ago, sharrrp said:

My personal opinion on this is that you can NOT use "Genius" to drop a bomb when Ionized. My basis for this is the wording "when you reveal YOUR maneuver" and "after you execute YOUR maneuver" as opposed to executing "A" maneuver. That seems to imply that you do need to have a maneuver that you have assigned in order to trigger "Genius". If "Genius" did specify "A" maneuver then I would say yes, drop the bomb when ionized for sure but he does not. It could be just an oversight in the wording during design but we gotta go RAW. RAI is very not clear in this case and this might not have even come up in play test design.

However, I will admit this is far from open and shut. This has technically been an issue for a long time but until Scum Nym arrived "Genius" was basically never ever played and Ions are relatively rarely played so the question hadn't come up. There is definitely merit to the argument that he does let you drop a bomb but this needs an official ruling.

Agreed. This seems to be one of those "As Written on the Card" vs "As Intended" situations. To me.. Genius only should only trigger when a dial comes into play, as being having an ION token means you lost control of your ship's movement, but the wording on the card does not make that clear of distinction. The "your maneuver" wording is vague enough that one can make a valid argument that hit bypasses the dial or revealing a maneuver requirement.

Given the popularity of Nym i could see it being faq'd saying you have to actually be able to drop the bomb the normal way in order to use Genius' "Instead" clause.

The "Instead" clause is why you can do it while ioned. The first half is only describing what its looking for, then it says "Instead, you may drop it after you execute a maneuver" which completely invalidates the original requirements since its a totally separate trigger to drop a bomb.

5 hours ago, shaunmerritt said:

This seems to be one of those "As Written on the Card" vs "As Intended" situations. To me.. Genius only should only trigger when a dial comes into play, as being having an ION token means you lost control of your ship's movement, but the wording on the card does not make that clear of distinction.

I am afraid that ion is considered as a normal maneuver for all purposes that is only not started with usual "reveal dial" portion... That is confirmed by few instances described in FAQ, like SLAM while ionized (if you have SLAM in action bar you can use the action with 1-speed maneuvers) or Nien Numb (the ion maneuver is green). So, no matter if you assigned it or not it is still considered as your maneuver .

Right now I say nym can drop a reveal dial bomb with genius even if ionized, this is very unfortunate. Genius needs to be FAQ because it should not work if it bumps a ship or the ship ionized with genius should not be allowed to drop reveal dial bomb with genius if it is ionized.

2 hours ago, Gotham88Knight said:

Right now I say nym can drop a reveal dial bomb with genius even if ionized, this is very unfortunate. Genius needs to be FAQ because it should not work if it bumps a ship or the ship ionized with genius should not be allowed to drop reveal dial bomb with genius if it is ionized.

Why? So it's not as hard to fly against?

If you know Nym can drop whilst ionised or after a bumb; then fly accordingly and don't make it an option for your opponent. Sure, sometimes you'll have no choice but to take the bomblet; but it's not like control is totally out of your hands.

God forbid we actually have to think about counters to specific threats and act accordingly.

Nym with advanced sensors, genius and bomblet is easy to fly. Lolol

I talking about flying against it. You're calling for a nerf to make things easier for you (as the opponent). Yes, VI Genius Nym is easy to fly... So fly better than your opponent and deny him the opportunity to use the tools he's brought to the table.

But you've still not answered my question. Why does it need a nerf?

in about 30ish games facing nym, most of which were in a tournament setting, i havnt lost to him yet. Not even joking either, even games where i was having a tough time i still won. He's STUPID EASY to explode in 1 round of combat.
He's not as big an issue people think he is. Fly better and avoid the trap that is R1. I have always avoided R1, so Nym is no threat to me.

On 7/11/2017 at 3:29 PM, NilsTillander said:

I agree. It says:

If you are equipped with a bomb that can be dropped when you reveal your maneuver, you may drop the bomb after you execute your maneuver instead.

It doesn't say anything about your ability to drop the bomb normally this turn .

When you think about it, it's weird indeed, because of the word instead. But I think it should be ok.

Reading the way it works if you couldn't drop a bomb "when you reveal your maneuver" then there is no bomb drop occurring so that it could happen AFTER the maneuver instead of before the maneuver actually takes place.

Genius may change how the bomb is dropped but it doesn't remove the trigger that allows the bomb to be dropped.

12 hours ago, StevenO said:

Reading the way it works if you couldn't drop a bomb "when you reveal your maneuver" then there is no bomb drop occurring so that it could happen AFTER the maneuver instead of before the maneuver actually takes place.

Genius may change how the bomb is dropped but it doesn't remove the trigger that allows the bomb to be dropped.

The trigger is having the bomb equipped.

I got this as a judge call probably a dozen times at gencon. Genius allows you to drop the bomblet after you are done moving regardless of weather you bumped or were ionized. Genius doesn't care how you got to where you are.

On 13/08/2017 at 5:36 AM, PaulTiberius said:

This rubs me wrong.

Tonight, Nym had a bomblette undetonated, got Ioned, then next turn moved forward only a few millimeters on the ion maneuver due to a bump. My opponent insisted he could drop another bomblette with Genius after the ion move, resulting in both bomblettes sitting basically on top of each other.

I strenuously argued that Genius should not impart a bomb opportunity that would not have existed in the first place due to the ion effect. But I admitted it was a quandary based on rules as written. So I let it go, as the other players in the room felt it was allowed.

I had all three of my ships in range of the second bomblette, two in range of the first. As it turned out, of the ten bomb dice I had to roll, there was exactly one hit...on my fully shielded QuickDraw. Evil laughter, and QD made the free killshot on Nym...I told him the Xwing gods had judged his reasoning wanting, and ruled with the dice that his post-ion bomblette should not have been dropped.

I await the FAQ clarifying this.

Sorry, confused. How was the first bomblet not detonated before the second was laid in the next turn? I had wondered why it came with two tokens.

12 minutes ago, FlipmodeSH said:

Sorry, confused. How was the first bomblet not detonated before the second was laid in the next turn? I had wondered why it came with two tokens.

Rebel Nym can stop one from detonating.