On 7/21/2017 at 7:04 AM, Genuine said:

I do, however, hate the invisible/immune to the force bit they have. Not just strong minded, but even immune to stuff like force pushes. I also strongly dislike the machines are evil bit. That being said, the worst part about them is that they show up in the most poorly executed portions of the old EU, IMHO.

See, this is what I don't get about the Vong.
Even if you were immune or invisible to the Force, wouldn't you get pushed anyway? The force can be used to push completely inanimate objects that contain no essence of the force what so ever.

6 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

What? No, Clone Wars had zombies, invisibility/cloaking spells, creating mechanical limbs from thin air, shapeshifting Force gods. It went full fantasy with the Force.

Yeah, I don't like the Clone Wars (or Rebels) for that very reason.

7 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

See, this is what I don't get about the Vong.
Even if you were immune or invisible to the Force, wouldn't you get pushed anyway? The force can be used to push completely inanimate objects that contain no essence of the force what so ever .

Yoda : Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you, hmm? And well you should not, for my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. [looks around him] Life creates it. Makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Everywhere. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Yes, even between the land and the ship.

So the force is clearly in non-living, inanimate objects as much as living things. So whatever the case with the Vong, they are separated from that, its more than they are just without midichlorians.

On 7/19/2017 at 5:11 PM, Lareg said:

The retcons i know are about ships rather than events: the A-Wing and B-Wing being developed and used (for the A-wing) much earlier than any previous source stated. I think the effects of some weapons are also increased compared to what we used to know.

Actually A-Wings and B-Wings being created after Yavin was a retrocon by West End Games. Both ships appeared in the Droids cartoon set in 15 BBY before West End Games got the game license and declared that they were developed after Yavin. There were also some PC games that included A-Wings before Yavin. This eventually led to another retrocon establishing older lookalike fighter designs with the A-Wing lookalike being nicknamed A-Wing by rebel pilots before the RZ-1 A-Wings were in use.

1 hour ago, KRKappel said:

Yoda : Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you, hmm? And well you should not, for my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. [looks around him] Life creates it. Makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Everywhere. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Yes, even between the land and the ship.

So the force is clearly in non-living, inanimate objects as much as living things. So whatever the case with the Vong, they are separated from that, its more than they are just without midichlorians.

Yoda says the Force flows from living beings and between inanimate objects, not into or through them. I feel that's a subtle but important difference.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Vong still get affected by the Force so long as it wasn't telekinesis or sensing? I've never read that far into the EU, got setting fatigue long before then, but I'm pretty certain a healthy dose of Force Lightning would still zap them. I really would be calling shenanigans if somebody Force Lightning'd a Vong and the Vong just laughed it off and went ' well, despite the fact you threw electricity at me, a potent and dangerous energy that can kill and can be created by nature without your pseudo-magic, this particular electricity was created by the Force, so I am therefore immune, trolololol '.

It would be like a jerk GM trying to create a tough enemy and then sticking his fingers in his ears when the mage casts fireball going ' no, magic is magic and this NPC has magic immunity !'

Wait... was that the logic behind the Vong to begin with?

I don't think the Vong were that bad in concept. Despite what some might tell you, there are plenty of weird alien species, and they don't particularly stand out as different on their own.

I think it has more to do with execution and association. The entire New Jedi Order series suffers from the "too many cooks" problem: by my count, there's something like a dozen odd writers, many of them being writers of controversial or mediocre in skill; this kind of thing is what led the Vong to be defined as masochistic; initially, only one group was, but the other writers took that as the species' hat and ran with it. And then throw some executive meddling into the mix, with Lucas mandating that certain characters be killed of for silly reasons (Chewie because they wanted a main character death, and he ordered Anakin Solo's death only because he was afraid people would mistake him for Anakin Skywalker. Because, as everyone knows, the common person is incapable of telling the difference between two people with the same name.) and you are doomed to failure.

If, instead, you had one ( maybe two) writer with a moderately level head on their shoulders, and Lucas continued to not give a crap about Star Wars EU, the whole concept may have worked out better.

With one or two writers the series would have probably spanned decades of real time, though.

Something more akin to a showrunner in the tv world would be a better, more logical approach...a lead writer who oversees the direction and maintains consistency. We can make a strong argument for that being the editor's job, but the showrunner (or publishing equivalent) is often more "boots on the ground."

Wow, 9 pages into the discussion of "Dawn of Rebellion" and people are talking about Vong & the Force.

16 minutes ago, Spraug said:

Wow, 9 pages into the discussion of "Dawn of Rebellion" and people are talking about Vong & the Force.

Well, if the DoR teaser offered us something that was actually new and different from what we already have, I'm sure somebody might talk about it.

I haven't read the books about the vong, but I've read about them a little. I'm good with the weird race that uses organic technology, even the conquerer angle. I don't like the invisible to the force thing though. And as long as you get rid of the tired super-weapon/planet changing stuff they would be alright. A very alien threat to what the galaxy is used to seeing.

On 7/23/2017 at 9:23 AM, Ghostofman said:

...No glowy carp

Just a big one.

8 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Yoda says the Force flows from living beings and between inanimate objects, not into or through them. I feel that's a subtle but important difference.

It's an energy field, created by living things. By using the term "field," and describing the Force as "binding the galaxy together," Obi-Wan insinuates that the Force does indeed reside in inanimate objects throughout the galaxy (although those objects aren't themselves the source of the Force).

When reading the NJO books (full confession—I didn't read all of them), I eventually imagined that the Vong must somehow be immune to this energy field—like if everyone in the galaxy generated this energy, and this energy flowed through them and between all other living things, and everything in the galaxy is capable of conducting this energy. Like electromagnetics, right? And just everything in the galaxy is a generator, or conductor, or perhaps both. And it can be acted upon by those with great sensitivity to it. But then the Vong come in and they're like fiber-optic cabling, which doesn't conduct electricity, and is therefore immune to direct electromagnetic interference. So they can be crushed by a rock hurled through the Force, or they can die by being introduced to a vacuum created by the Force, but they cannot be acted upon directly by this energy field.

4 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

It's an energy field, created by living things. By using the term "field," and describing the Force as "binding the galaxy together," Obi-Wan insinuates that the Force does indeed reside in inanimate objects throughout the galaxy (although those objects aren't themselves the source of the Force).

"It’s an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together." Or he's using galaxy the way we would use country or world in the real world, to refer to society, or people.

Just now, Stan Fresh said:

"It’s an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together." Or he's using galaxy the way we would use country or world in the real world, to refer to society, or people.

Nah. It doesn't just bind , but also surrounds . Statements by both Obi-Wan and Yoda help to clarify this point. Remember that Yoda also said "You must feel the Force around you. Here: between you...me...the tree...the rock. Everywhere! Yes."

Speaking of some of the EU stuff that we I dislike, how many times did Palpatine come back?

25 minutes ago, Genuine said:

Speaking of some of the EU stuff that we I dislike, how many times did Palpatine come back?

In total? Three. Once to set up Dark Empire , once during it, when he switched clone bodies in front of Luke, and once more for Dark Empire II .

41 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

In total? Three. Once to set up Dark Empire , once during it, when he switched clone bodies in front of Luke, and once more for Dark Empire II .

Didn't he try and possess one of the Solo kids too?

Just now, Genuine said:

Didn't he try and possess one of the Solo kids too?

Yep, and that's when he died for good.

2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yep, and that's when he died for good.

That's just what he wants you to believe...

Or until the next author comes along to bring him back.

8 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

Nah. It doesn't just bind , but also surrounds . Statements by both Obi-Wan and Yoda help to clarify this point. Remember that Yoda also said "You must feel the Force around you. Here: between you...me...the tree...the rock. Everywhere! Yes."

Yes, between them. That doesn't change my point. What do you mean?

2 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Yes, between them. That doesn't change my point. What do you mean?

What he means is that in this listing "between" refers to the people and the trees as well as the stones. So the stone is treated like everything else here.

11 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Well, if the DoR teaser offered us something that was actually new and different from what we already have, I'm sure somebody might talk about it.

Ooooops, sorry, I missed that it was mentioned in the teaser (have to read it again).

Era sourcebook seems interesting. And I hope there are more to come. Personally I'd love clone wars and KOTOR era books, but I think FFG will go more by lines of new movies. (Dawn of rebellion supports Rogue One and upcoming Han Solo movie.)

21 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

Just a big one.

Summon Bigger Fish! Yes! (Please check out Darths and Droids for reference)