12 hours ago, Spraug said:What he means is that in this listing "between" refers to the people and the trees as well as the stones. So the stone is treated like everything else here.
But that still doesn't mean the Force is in the stone. Only that it's between the stone and everything else.
On 12/07/2017 at 7:01 AM, Donovan Morningfire said:I believe at this point that the final season of Rebels is bordering on the Rebellion Era at this point, assuming that each season represents a year's time. I recall hearing speculation that this last season would run up pretty close to the Battle of Scarif and the events of Rogue One, but wouldn't actually delve into those events as per Filoni.
Plus, FFG has 15+ years of time frame that's not really been addressed since the canon reset, so there's plenty for them to work with.
Yep, I've read that in a few places, as well. My impression was that Rebels would basically finish with the heroes (or the survivors of the heroes: Hera and Chopper, at the very least) arriving on Yavin shortly before the Battle of Scarif, so that the entirety of Rebels , Rogue One , and A New Hope forms an almost subset trilogy.
On 24.7.2017 at 11:25 PM, HappyDaze said:Well, if the DoR teaser offered us something that was actually new and different from what we already have, I'm sure somebody might talk about it.
To be honest I am too stupid to find a reference to the Vong or any allusion to it in the teaser. Then again, I'd be more than happy to overlook ANYthing concerning the Vong anyway.
29 minutes ago, Spraug said:To be honest I am too stupid to find a reference to the Vong or any allusion to it in the teaser. Then again, I'd be more than happy to overlook ANYthing concerning the Vong anyway.
Discussing era books > discussing the New Jedi Order era > discussing the YV.
5 minutes ago, Blackbird888 said:Discussing era books > discussing the New Jedi Order era > discussing the YV.
In other words, we've gone far off the tracks and are neck deep in tumbleweeds
37 minutes ago, Spraug said:To be honest I am too stupid to find a reference to the Vong or any allusion to it in the teaser. Then again, I'd be more than happy to overlook ANYthing concerning the Vong anyway.
I meant that my excitement for this era book is dampened by the fact that it's just not all that different from the default era of the FFG games. It doesn't really feel like a new era, just a slight expanding of the one most of are already playing in.
2 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:I meant that my excitement for this era book is dampened by the fact that it's just not all that different from the default era of the FFG games. It doesn't really feel like a new era, just a slight expanding of the one most of are already playing in.
I'd disagree. For starters, there's not really a grand, unified Rebellion until close to the very end of that time frame, and one could say that by the time the Rebel Alliance has truly come together as a unified entity, you've left the time frame of the Dark Times and entered into the Rebellion Era proper. This means that for many PCs, if they choose to oppose the Empire, they're pretty much on their own, not unlike Hera and Kanan were in the early days of their partnership; Hera may have had a handler in the form of Fulcrum/Ahsoka, but in terms of resources she didn't have a large support network the way that PCs in AoR have.
Also, this is a time frame that per Dave Filoni's own words the Empire was still establishing its control of the galaxy, especially the outlying regions. So it's not quite the monolithic presence in the outer regions of the galaxy that it is during the Rebellion Era. It's also a time of transition from the government of the more hands-off Old Republic to the more authoritative Empire; the Republic pretty much didn't exist in the Outer Rim Territories, meaning that any government is either entirely local or criminal (aka Hutts).
It's also, in the early parts of the Era, not long after Order 66 so there's bound to be more Jedi survivors lurking around, be they Padawans or Initiates that were lucky to be away from the Temple or Knights and Masters that survived the betrayal of their Clone Troopers. And also in the early parts, the Empire's line about the Jedi being a bunch of charlatans and the Force being nothing more than smoke and mirrors hasn't really taken root; you've an entire generation that grew up with the Jedi being lauded as heroes due to their efforts during the war on Republic-sponsored news programs, and while Jedi might not be very popular in the outer reaches of the galaxy (in particular regions that were aligned with the Separatists) they're not quite as feared and folks may not be quite as quick to report someone openly wielding a lightsaber or flinging objects with a gesture or changing minds with a wave of their hand to the Empire (if the Empire even exists in that region).
Now, for GMs that have been running Star Wars games for years or have read a lot of Legends lore over the years, a lot of that is stuff that we can handle on our own without needing a lot of prompting on how to set up the stories placed in that era. But there are newer and/or younger GMs who may well find the help this book can provide and the insight it can offer on that particular era helpful.
Nobody's holding a gun to your head saying you have to buy this book. If it doesn't interest you for whatever reason, then don't buy it, simple as that.
Me? I'm looking forward to it. Not just for the inevitable new crunch, but also for a different viewpoint on the state of the galaxy at that time, especially with the new canon in place that challenged if not outright changed a number of assumptions folks had due to pre-existing Legends material. Am I expecting to blow my socks off? Not really, as none of their prior setting books have really done that, though Nexus of Power has probably come the closest out of the lot thus far. But I'm also not going to piss on other folks' enthusiasm for the book either.
In anticipation of this book I have set our new adventure in this era... Can't wait.
10 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:I'd disagree. For starters, there's not really a grand, unified Rebellion until close to the very end of that time frame, and one could say that by the time the Rebel Alliance has truly come together as a unified entity, you've left the time frame of the Dark Times and entered into the Rebellion Era proper. This means that for many PCs, if they choose to oppose the Empire, they're pretty much on their own, not unlike Hera and Kanan were in the early days of their partnership; Hera may have had a handler in the form of Fulcrum/Ahsoka, but in terms of resources she didn't have a large support network the way that PCs in AoR have.
Also, this is a time frame that per Dave Filoni's own words the Empire was still establishing its control of the galaxy, especially the outlying regions. So it's not quite the monolithic presence in the outer regions of the galaxy that it is during the Rebellion Era. It's also a time of transition from the government of the more hands-off Old Republic to the more authoritative Empire; the Republic pretty much didn't exist in the Outer Rim Territories, meaning that any government is either entirely local or criminal (aka Hutts).
It's also, in the early parts of the Era, not long after Order 66 so there's bound to be more Jedi survivors lurking around, be they Padawans or Initiates that were lucky to be away from the Temple or Knights and Masters that survived the betrayal of their Clone Troopers. And also in the early parts, the Empire's line about the Jedi being a bunch of charlatans and the Force being nothing more than smoke and mirrors hasn't really taken root; you've an entire generation that grew up with the Jedi being lauded as heroes due to their efforts during the war on Republic-sponsored news programs, and while Jedi might not be very popular in the outer reaches of the galaxy (in particular regions that were aligned with the Separatists) they're not quite as feared and folks may not be quite as quick to report someone openly wielding a lightsaber or flinging objects with a gesture or changing minds with a wave of their hand to the Empire (if the Empire even exists in that region).
Now, for GMs that have been running Star Wars games for years or have read a lot of Legends lore over the years, a lot of that is stuff that we can handle on our own without needing a lot of prompting on how to set up the stories placed in that era. But there are newer and/or younger GMs who may well find the help this book can provide and the insight it can offer on that particular era helpful.
Nobody's holding a gun to your head saying you have to buy this book. If it doesn't interest you for whatever reason, then don't buy it, simple as that.
Me? I'm looking forward to it. Not just for the inevitable new crunch, but also for a different viewpoint on the state of the galaxy at that time, especially with the new canon in place that challenged if not outright changed a number of assumptions folks had due to pre-existing Legends material. Am I expecting to blow my socks off? Not really, as none of their prior setting books have really done that, though Nexus of Power has probably come the closest out of the lot thus far. But I'm also not going to piss on other folks' enthusiasm for the book either.
It seems to me that most of what you stress is the early part of the era, but the sources ( Rebels, Rogue One ) are all set in the very end of the era. That's why I said I don't think it's going to be too exciting to me. If they put a lot of material to cover 19 BBY-9 BBY I'll be far more interested.
4 hours ago, HappyDaze said:It seems to me that most of what you stress is the early part of the era, but the sources ( Rebels, Rogue One ) are all set in the very end of the era. That's why I said I don't think it's going to be too exciting to me. If they put a lot of material to cover 19 BBY-9 BBY I'll be far more interested.
Like you said to another poster earlier in this thread, all that FFG has posted thus far about the book is a teaser. In which they mention two very popular elements of the overall property that are set within the time frame the book intends to cover. Given that FFG is a for-profit company, it makes sense that an article to build interest in an upcoming product is going make mention of two recent entries in the larger franchise that are quite popular.
Personally I'm wasn't all that impressed with Rogue One, but I can understand why it'd be mentioned as a big part of the marketing for this book given that a substantial number of folks did like the movie, folks that FFG is hoping they can appeal to and get to purchase this book. Not unlike the marketing campaign for Spider-Man: Homecoming that featured a lot of Robert Downey Jr's very popular take on Tony Stark to confirm to the masses that this film is part of the highly successful (critically and financially) MCU.
Thus far, not much has been done in terms of licensed products under the new canon for the initial 10 years after the Empire's formation, with the Tarkin novel (meh) and the very recent new Vader comic series being about it, and the comic series is far too recent for it to have any actual influence on Dawn of Rebellion. So for examples of source material under the new canon to mention, the pickings are pretty slim.
As I said earlier in the thread, we've got an existing case of a similar situation, where WotC published The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide, which despite the video game taking place within a very narrow time frame was a book that more accurately should have been called the Dark Times Campaign Guide for the wealth of information it provided that was far outside of the elements contained in TFU. Prior to the book coming out, people whined and wailed (much like you're doing) that the book was going to be of little use and hyper-focused on the much-delayed video game. Turned out the naysayers were wrong, and that it proved to be quite a useful supplement in terms of the Empire and crunch options for characters that had nothing to do with the Force.
I've "whined and wailed" about it? I think you have overestimated my issues with this product. Saying that I'm not too excited and I'm not expecting much is about all I've done.
5 hours ago, HappyDaze said:I've "whined and wailed" about it? I think you have overestimated my issues with this product. Saying that I'm not too excited and I'm not expecting much is about all I've done.
Unless you sing everything's praises? (Or specifically everything with Star Wars TM attached?). Folks like him him will condemn you for eternity.
It's ridiculous. And best ignored.
I dig the idea of these era books and am looking forward to the inevitable Clone Wars book. But like you, I don't expect much from this one.
8 hours ago, HappyDaze said:I've "whined and wailed" about it? I think you have overestimated my issues with this product. Saying that I'm not too excited and I'm not expecting much is about all I've done.
Your tone in posts that shoot down or naysay other's enthusiasm or interest in the book strongly suggest otherwise.
19 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:Your tone in posts that shoot down or naysay other's enthusiasm or interest in the book strongly suggest otherwise.
A tone argument, really? You should know better than to base discussions on perceived "tone" on a text-based forum. I could just as easily imply that you have an agenda to harass and disparage me based upon the "tone" of your posts towards me. I hope you can see just how ridiculous that would be.
Oh FFS! FFG is taking advantage of something popular in regards to Star Wars. Whether by their own choice or through directives from Disney they would be foolish not to. Much like every other book that has been released people will either like it or not. Only time will tell. People are constantly wondering if the game is running out of steam, but I would say that there is still plenty to mine for the game. With almost all the career books out, bringing out books which combine elements all three lines is an awesome idea. It has the potential of drawing in those that haven't purchased all three lines. Anything that increases sales is good as that means more longevity for the game and, therefore, more books. Which is what we want.
Much of the equipment and ships have been released already so I imagine we will be getting more than just stuff related to Rebels. Lots of ground to cover in these Dark Times considering they cover about 20 years compared to the OT's time period of about 5-6 years.
8 minutes ago, mouthymerc said:bringing out books which combine elements all three lines is an awesome idea. It has the potential of drawing in those that haven't purchased all three lines. Anything that increases sales is good as that means more longevity for the game and, therefore, more books. Which is what we want.
This part I agree with entirely.
3 hours ago, HappyDaze said:A tone argument, really? You should know better than to base discussions on perceived "tone" on a text-based forum. I could just as easily imply that you have an agenda to harass and disparage me based upon the "tone" of your posts towards me. I hope you can see just how ridiculous that would be.
Pot, meet kettle.
^Definitely one of the bets war quotes ever...8D
On 7/24/2017 at 3:03 PM, awayputurwpn said:Nah. It doesn't just bind , but also surrounds . Statements by both Obi-Wan and Yoda help to clarify this point. Remember that Yoda also said "You must feel the Force around you. Here: between you...me...the tree...the rock. Everywhere! Yes."
While I think trying to affix real world beliefs on mystical mumbo-jumbo is folly, if you go back to the original Asian Shinto and Buddhist traditions that Lucas based the force on, some aspects have thousands of gods associated with them: rivers, trees, plants and so on. Given that, it's not a huge stretch to say the rock has The Force (or a god) infused in it.
1 hour ago, Desslok said:While I think trying to affix real world beliefs on mystical mumbo-jumbo is folly, if you go back to the original Asian Shinto and Buddhist traditions that Lucas based the force on, some aspects have thousands of gods associated with them: rivers, trees, plants and so on. Given that, it's not a huge stretch to say the rock has The Force (or a god) infused in it.
The kami of the Shinto tradition weren't "gods," per say, but are what's called
musubi
,
the interconnecting energy of the universe. They're forces of nature and the spirits of the dead but not gods, i.e. supernatural beings that create existence and/or anthropomorphize human traits like love, war, etc. That said,
musubi
is straight-up the Force.
The Jedi held to Buddhist practices of detachment and humbleness and a love of robes. Buddhism itself doesn't acknowledge or discourage the existence of the supernatural though a common form of Buddhism in Asia combines Hinduism with Buddhism. You see a lot of that in Japanese fantasy anime that uses Buddhist themes. But plain vanilla Zen Buddhism, which is influenced by Chinese Taoism, is a philosophy on finding peace within by controlling your urges and feelings, not a religion that explains how the universe was created or that believes in gods or spirits.
I'll try and refrain from any more talk of the Force flowing, binding, and penetrating, and how it relates to rocks vs the Yuuzhan Vong
--
So that Kanan guy on the book cover...
On 7/24/2017 at 4:43 AM, KRKappel said:Yoda : Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you, hmm? And well you should not, for my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. [looks around him] Life creates it. Makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Everywhere. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Yes, even between the land and the ship.
So the force is clearly in non-living, inanimate objects as much as living things. So whatever the case with the Vong, they are separated from that, its more than they are just without midichlorians.
I took this view, and do not mean (or want) to revisit the reasoning, just that I did/have before the prequels and the direction the rpg has taken supporting a view other than mine, and I'm cool with that... NBD, water under the bridge, other than my former idea, it's a rather small, but impact in the greater scheme of things.
That said, I played a game back in the start of the D6 system, when all we had (really) was the first movies, and had Anakin's flight Wing during the clone wars as the PC's... one member was a droid who had lived long enough without a memory wipe, who was also a Jedi... because of just the quote above...
So... say the Vong are "immune" to the force (whatever that means)...
You could still throw stuff AT them... you should, at least theoretically, be able to manipulate all the objects they use (organic or not, since only the Vong themselves are immune, right?)... you should also be able to shoot force lightning at them, since the lightning itself isn't "the force", you're just using the force to create electricity.
And you definately should be able to use force speed, force jump and other abilities that just affect your own physical being.
And things like a force shockwave should work too, since it's using the force to create a shockwave of air.
The more I think about it, the only advantage the Vong had against force users is that they couldn't sense them using the force (although one could argue that such a "void" in the force should be easily detected too) or manipulate them directly using the force (force push or using suggestion or reading their thoughts... stuff like that).
Other than that, the Jedi should still be formidable opponents to the Vong, who in turn have no superhuman powers other than not being connected to the force...
On 7/14/2017 at 4:10 AM, Donovan Morningfire said:Perhaps one thing that'll be discussed in this book is a section on running an Imperial-centric campaign. After all, this is the era where the Empire is pretty much at the height of it's power and doesn't really have a truly coordinated effort to oppose it, just a broad range of individual cells. Could also discuss the notion of running loyal Imperial Force users, be they low-ranking members of the Inquisitorious, agents of the Emperor (ala the Emperor's Hands of Legends) or simply Imperial "dark Jedi" that are called in for special cases requiring their particular skill set; Vader might have been the most obvious (and powerful) blunt instrument the Empire had, but that doesn't mean he was the only one that the Emperor had to call upon.
In the most recent Few episodes of Rebels, they mention that Gar Saxon was Emperors hand, so the position, if not the person/people in it have moved into Cannon...
QuoteAfter the rise of the Empire, Saxon served as Hand to Galactic Emperor Sheev Palpatine and was the leader of the Imperial Super Commandos until his death on Krownest in 2 BBY .