So I'd like a second opinion on how to handle an idea proposed by one of my players. So he's been playing a Gank Cyber-Tech in an ongoing edge game that we've been playing for about 2 months. Thus he's been dumping xp into mechanics and medicine pretty exclusively. He's been wanting to use the martial artist spec with some cybernetic enhancements. Specifically he's wanting to create his own cybernetic arm set and leg set, while also creating brawl weapons to go with them to make the integrated weapons enhancements on his cybernetics, essentially integrating brawl "fists and feet" weapons. Now my hang up with this is that he's wanting to make both of them 'two-handed' for the fists and feet which essentially means that he can only use one set of these at a time, but he wants to pair them together. Essentially he'd be looking at paired two-handed weapons trying to make the attachment paired weapons for both weapons to reduce the advantage cost. Now i personally feel like this is a bit min-max-ish and I'm inclined to say no just for the sake of balance, but I could just let him designate which weapon 'set' he's using with either his hands or feet. I guess my question is in YOUR opinions should i allow him to run two-handed paired weapons if they're his hands and feet separately, or not? Or alternatively what would you propose in place of it?

Vamblades! 1,000 credits for the pair, +300 credits for the Paired attachment, using the vamblades' 1 hard point. Dangerous Covenants p49. I would allow them to be retractable, using the "cybernetic weapon" upgrade (instead of the blaster pistol profile).

Alternately, you could install multiple Repulsor Fists. A bit pricey, but fun

Regarding two-weapon fighting, the mechanical and narrative don't have to match up exactly. You can buy two "cybernetic weapons" of some sort and flavor them however you like. Just keep the weapon profile the same, mechanically (allowing for one hit on a Success, and one additional hit with 2 Advantage) and narrate it as a flurry of blow from both hands and both feet.

Oh also note that some of the "best" Martial Artist talents don't allow for Brawl weapons, especially Supreme Precision Strike. So he might wanna focus on something else besides cybernetic weapons, if he wants to benefit from such talents.

2 hours ago, taz4477 said:

So I'd like a second opinion on how to handle an idea proposed by one of my players. So he's been playing a Gank Cyber-Tech in an ongoing edge game that we've been playing for about 2 months. Thus he's been dumping xp into mechanics and medicine pretty exclusively. He's been wanting to use the martial artist spec with some cybernetic enhancements. Specifically he's wanting to create his own cybernetic arm set and leg set, while also creating brawl weapons to go with them to make the integrated weapons enhancements on his cybernetics, essentially integrating brawl "fists and feet" weapons. Now my hang up with this is that he's wanting to make both of them 'two-handed' for the fists and feet which essentially means that he can only use one set of these at a time, but he wants to pair them together. Essentially he'd be looking at paired two-handed weapons trying to make the attachment paired weapons for both weapons to reduce the advantage cost. Now i personally feel like this is a bit min-max-ish and I'm inclined to say no just for the sake of balance, but I could just let him designate which weapon 'set' he's using with either his hands or feet. I guess my question is in YOUR opinions should i allow him to run two-handed paired weapons if they're his hands and feet separately, or not? Or alternatively what would you propose in place of it?

This opens cans of worms. The game indicates that an attack does not represent a single trigger pull or swing, but potentially a fusillade of blows/shots. So how does one reconcile the notion of things like autofire/linked/2 weapon combat and 'multiple hits', with a system that seems to imply a single attack roll represents more than a single shot? I think it boils down to narrative, and all of the 'multi-shot' abilities need to be viewed as simply a more effective or accurate attack overall.

To your question I wouldn't get into the issue he uses 2 fists or 2 feet, I would simply say the combined effort adds to the success in some way of a 2 weapon attack. You decide in what way, but that there will not be 4 attacks made. In some situations kicks are not an option, in others punches, in some neither.

I'd dial back what he can add to them and not allow a bunch of upgrades to weapons because they already represent an upgrade to something that has to function as an arm and a leg and there's not room for munchkin silliness. Super blades in your hands don't do you alot of good if you can't dial a phone or fly a ship because your arms are so clunky, or you can't run because your legs are so cumbersome with integrated chainsaws in them......

But in regards to specifically the creation rules in SM with the two handed property, would that allow one to 'pair' one set of two handed weapons being his hands and the 2nd set being his feet both with the two handed quality or would that be to mechanical? I guess I could just tell him that if he takes the 'two handed' creation selection it would just act as if it were counting for his hands feet etc.

1 minute ago, 2P51 said:

To your question I wouldn't get into the issue he uses 2 fists or 2 feet, I would simply say the combined effort adds to the success in some way of a 2 weapon attack. You decide in what way, but that there will not be 4 attacks made. In some situations kicks are not an option, in others punches, in some neither.

I'd dial back what he can add to them and not allow a bunch of upgrades to weapons because they already represent an upgrade to something that has to function as an arm and a leg and there's not room for munchkin silliness. Super blades in your hands don't do you alot of good if you can't dial a phone or fly a ship because your arms are so clunky, or you can't run because your legs are so cumbersome with integrated chainsaws in them......

Well it wouldn't be as if it were 4 attacks he intends to do it the same way that a gunslinger would run 2 pistols essentially counting them as 2 separate weapons, so that his primary weapon being his hands if successful and with enough advantage could also trigger his 'legs' for an attack

I'd just say he can do it. It will make a 2 weapon attack with his limbs more effective in some way, and I would not worry about the SM rules specifics. Make it correspondingly a level of Difficulty to accomplish you are comfortable with and call it done.

It's been answered though by the Devs, anyone can make a 2 weapon Brawl attack with their bare hands.

7 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

I'd just say he can do it. It will make a 2 weapon attack with his limbs more effective in some way, and I would not worry about the SM rules specifics. Make it correspondingly a level of Difficulty to accomplish you are comfortable with and call it done.

It's been answered though by the Devs, anyone can make a 2 weapon Brawl attack with their bare hands.

I know that they can make a 2 hand weapon attack with bare hands but I guess my dilemma is, to what point would a punch/kick combo attack be challenged? Would it be upgraded beyond what the standard 2 hand attack is since he's trying to incorporate 'features' as his attacks go into it or should I just axe the ability to have the two handed mod, and let him in turn do the weapon as an integrated set for hands and feet separate, allowing the paired mod to be installed.

I mean mechanically I guess I think of it as the two handed modification being paired with two weapons both sharing that mod doesn't make mechanical sense, I mean would one expect someone two wield two great vibroswords to their full potential capability without penalty if they're being used together in unison?

It's a 2 weapon attack, and no, I would not allow multiple hits beyond 2, just like a pair of guns. The system like I said already assumes a flurry of blows in a single Brawl attack. Brawling doesn't mean punching/kicking by default. Grabbing people's hair/stalks/tentacles and smashing their 'face' into the bar is Brawling. Clotheslining someone is Brawling. Giving them a purple heart is Brawling. Three Stooges poke in the eyes is Brawling. He is getting hung up on more limbs equals more hits and that's exactly what I am talking about when I say it needs to be viewed a little less literally and more narratively. Weapons on everything could be represented as Boost dice, or the paired attachment idea. It simply makes the 2 weapon roll more effective but I wouldn't be allowing multiple additional hits for more limbs, or he'll be installing Dr. Octopus tentacles next....

Lol that's fair, I may just be overthinking it all but I appreciate the insight

1 hour ago, taz4477 said:

But in regards to specifically the creation rules in SM with the two handed property, would that allow one to 'pair' one set of two handed weapons being his hands and the 2nd set being his feet both with the two handed quality or would that be to mechanical? I guess I could just tell him that if he takes the 'two handed' creation selection it would just act as if it were counting for his hands feet etc.

Fists are, quite literally, one-handed weapons . And thus they qualify for Two Weapon Fighting. How you describe it is up to you.

Two-handed weapons do not qualify for two-weapon fighting, btw.

My PC has wrist mounted guns and sometimes duel wields one handed, one gun in his actual hand and the lancer providing spastic fire support. Mechanically this is still duel wielding and I never felt tempted to use more then one hand, I'm just duel weilding with one hand so my other hand is free to do stuff, like opening doors, picking up dropped items, flipping stormtroopers off; e.c.t.

Mechanically, what I would do with the extra hand is provide a single advantage from having this extra limb trying to grab you. Allows for easier trigger of grapple and essentially acts like a laser sight. I assume combat to be a single vicious exchange with the rounds reflecting how it's going; needless to say most characters will use both hands even if one is stronger, just they are leading off with that.

Is a weapon in one hand and a weapon in the other a "2 handed weapon" ?

No.

Is a weapon on one foot and a weapon on another foot a "2 handed weapon" ?

No.

Thats 4 different weapons, he can hit twice in a single attack by increasing the difficulty once and spending 2 Advantage. There is no 2 handed Brawl weapon, only Melee, and those weapons actually require 2 of your hands to hold onto. Having 4 weapons is still an advantage because sometimes your hands are holding something and attacking with them would be impossible.

Now, if the PC gets picked up by an angry Wookiee and is used as an improvised club, at that point he would be considered a two-handed weapon.