The dice pack contains:

• 3 Characteristic dice (blue d8)
• 2 Reckless dice (red d10)
• 2 Conservative dice (green d10)
• 2 Fortune dice (white d6)
• 1 Expertise die (yellow d6)
• 1 Misfortune die (black d6)
• 1 Challenge die (purple d8)

The market for these packs is largely players who wish to bring their own dice. However, this dice pack does not support an independent dice pool. So a player wishing to bring his own dice will have to buy 2 or even three packs.

At this point the cost issue raises its head. FFG are asking $1 per die! This is outragous imo.

I have to agree that the price is very high.

In the uk i paid £15.00 for two packs i honestly think like you as a top up its fine but a player wanting the core dice is going to have to spend £22.50 thats a third of the cost of the core set thats crazy.

A player should be able to buy a dice set for a fraction of the price.

This is one area ffg should address in my view.

These are plastic molded items where the NRE is probably paid by the 1st printing of the Core Set. The unit manufacturing cost of a die is going to be <$0.01. The costs for FFG are going to be distribution, not the manufacturing of the dice.

The set essentially needs to be the same as the one in the Core set (about 30 dice) - $0.40 is about right for custom dice.

Fresnel said:

A retail price of $1 per die is quite reasonable. I've researched the cost of having my own custom dice made, and I wish I could find a deal like that. I couldn't make a profit selling custom dice for $1 a piece; I'd practically be giving them away.

Also, some online retailers have the dice packs listed for about $9, bringing the price-per-die down to $0.75.

DagobahDave said:

To be fair you aren't making them in the quanity that FFG does, but I suspect the cost is somewhere around 40 cents for them.

Were you asking for quotes for a 1000+ units of each type? How much of the quote was NRE?

Getting molded plastic pieces made is all about NRE (non-recurring engineering). Once you've paid for this and a set-up cost on the machine, they are fired out like bullets and material cost is tiny.

You are not looking very hard if you are paiding $0.75 per die for standard roleplay dice.

You can get 25 off custom D6 for $0.50 from Crystalcaste. These guys use laser eching, but FFG will be using molds which, as I say, means these dice are costing them very little.

Go old school, and scrimshaw them from whale bone, and dye them with various inks that you have plundered from other merchant ships. AAARRRRG!!!

Fresnel said:

Ok. It's actually $1 per die for 25 off, but the point is that these are made to order.

I'm bearing in mind that the price we pay is much more than the cost of production, and of course I understand that FFG is ordering them in bulk. Wholesalers purchase the dice packs for about half the cost that we pay for them, and FFG probably spends about half of the wholesale cost on production.

Just check out RPGShop or some of the other online retailers. It's not unusual to see a D6 with custom symbols on each side priced at $4 per die.

The majority of the cost to FFG is distribution, of course. My point is that the cost of the dice is a low factor - thus the number of dice included in the set could be increased without hurting margin too much. The only thing that would suffer is the number of sales - as players would not need to purchase multiple dice packs.

The bottom line is the feeling of being milked. GMs have already had to pay $100 for the core set - which isn't very complete. By the time they have paid for the GM expansion, the Wizard expansion, the Priest expansion, the Advanced Careers expansion, the Elf, Dwarf, Halfling expansion - they we have a fairly complete game and empty pockets...

WFRP3 is looking like it will be a very expensive system.

I agree the dice price is fine. 1 buck a die is roughly the amount chessex asks for a seven set of signature dice (roughly 8 bucks). However, I think the dice distribution per pack is a bit off. I'd rather have had 2 of each dice per pack. That way a player needs 2 packs, a third one past rank 3. I think it would have been better. But, like the Adventurer's Toolkit, this is a scheme to get us to spend money (which is alright) as they want to be successful, but the die packs seem a little overhanded...as does the end of Strange Eons, both decisions make me a little less forgiving of their business model. But oh, well, I just bought 2 packs of them, my other players who didn't by a core are buying two as well, so I surely still support the game.

What amuses me about these threads is that had they included more dice in the packs people would have been complaining that they were being forced to buy superflous dice. "I only want 2 reds and 2 greens, why are they forcing me to buy 4 of each!?!"

As for the existing dice pack - you don't need to buy 2. Just pick up the dice you just rolled, then roll them again.

Maybe I'm missing something, but can't someone just...I dunno...reroll the dice they don't have enough of? "Ok, that makes four successes on my characteristic dice, I had six to roll, so I need to reroll two of them...ok, plus one more success makes five."

I'll be encouraging my players to grab a pack each to contribute to the game but if someone's short they'll just 'track' what they rolled and pick up and reroll what they missed. It might take a few seconds longer to resolve something, but they're big boys, they can handle it.

I agree that the price is alright. I do however wish that they also had a HUGE dice pack available with all dice from the core pack, so you didn't have to buy several smaller packs.

Necronomicus said:

Everyone. Please. This is the only answer to this dilemma. Srsly.

EDIT: You'll get +2 Fortune points if you harpoon the whale yourself.

"Split your lungs with blood and thunder
When you see the white whale
Break your backs and crack your oars men
If you wish to prevail

This ivory leg is what propels me
Harpoons thrust in the sky
Aim directly for his crooked brow
And look him straight in the eye

White whale - holy grail"

*g* Welcome to the commercial Worlds of 3rd Edition WFRP...

The dice-thing is another reason for me not to play the 3rd Edition. The 2nd Edition-Player only needs two d10 and he can play right away. No extra packs and no extra cards, its simple and good.

Bruenor said:

Very true.

I ave heard lots of positive comments on the new dice and card system, but it still sticks out to me as a mechandising scheme. Easier to make and sell more dice and cards that are required to play, then to make more books that are not required to play.

Fo example, I could just buy two D10 for $2 or o and a copy of WFRP 2E for $40 and be done with it. Never need to buy another book again. Spen another $8 and I have enough dice for 5 people to not have to share them, all I need is pencil and paper and we are good to go. Heck, FFG/BI/GW doesnt even make money off the dice I buy, just the rule book.

But with 3E, every aspect (other then pencil and paper) is made, sold and distributed by FFG, so every die I buy, every card I buy, every player who wants his own dice (which is what, a obsession and compulsion about 85% of the RPG community has) is made and sold only by FFG or companies who they distribute through, so each die, each card nets them money.

If I were to take WFRP 3E up to my old college group we would all have to share one copy, except for those who bought it as well, if I were to take 2E up there, at least the players already have D10 at the ready. Their own, lucky, uncursed D10!

Its actually a very good business model for a RPG company and I can see why they chose it. Do I believe it does all the special extra hype I hear it does? Maybe, but it still doesnt appeal to me. I still think it was largely picked for the new system for the merchandizing reason.

And being an american, I salute that.

Well, personally I am using a PDA with one of the fan-made dice rollers. Its actually better than using real dice imo.

come on, you don't even have one mini or map to buy

You know you can use an alternate character sheet, note the talent and action cards down, and use a pen to track fortune/stress/fatigue/recharge?

http://74.53.20.230/hammerzeit/index.php?option=com_phocadownload&view=category&id=1:character-sheets&download=37:wfrp3-character-sheet&Itemid=54

The fact information is printed on cards does not mean you have to use the cards in play, it's simple enough to adapt everything to "classic" pen and paper.

For dice, just order blank dice with stickers (use the proper ink color) and you can cut the price : http://www.nobleknight.com/ViewProducts.asp_Q_ProductLineID_E_2137419031_A_ManufacturerID_E_72_A_CategoryID_E_4_A_GenreID_E_

that character sheet may lack the pretty colors of the newest version, but it makes up for it iwth the old school gritty feel.

Peacekeeper_b said:

It isn't entirely about merchandising. There's a very good game in here, too. V3 offers some conveniences and a visual appeal that shouldn't be undervalued. Sure, the dice are proprietary but I find the core mechanic to be really cool. You could produce the exact same results with numerical dice, but it's much easier (convenience) and better-looking (visual appeal) to use the dice that come with the game. I have to admit: rolling a handful of dice is kind of fun. Taking the number-crunching out of basic task resolution is attractive to me as well, especially after years of adding up -5 for this, +10 for that, -20 for this, +5 for that. I like being able to just grab a black die or a white die or whatever, and not think about the numbers, but rather think about the scene and the situation that I'm describing. For my money, V3's proprietary symbol-bearing dice do a better job of facilitating a roleplay experience than numerical dice ever have.

Having the full rules for a talent or combat action written right onto a card, without having to copy down anything onto your character sheet, is convenient. Especially when it comes to combat actions, I find the cards to be a great way to put a lot of information right at the players' fingertips, right out of the box. (V1 and V2 don't offer that convenience.) Having two "modes" for many actions is also very cool, and being able to access those modes just by flipping over the cards is clever, convenient, and adds some depth to gameplay that isn't found in either of the earlier editions.

I could go on, but these are just a couple of examples of why V3 seems to me to be much more than just a way to make some money for FFG. It's actually a very cool game that does some things that certainly are possible using a more traditional approach, but would be less convenient.

I have mine !

10 euros in France (Exchange between dollar and euro is still favorable for european to buy US (good for american economy).

That's a bit a collector's buy, but I though it would be could that every player has his own set of dices : characteristics, stance and expertise. They love to create their dice pool, get the final result and describe the In-game effect of that ! That's a great system.

As a GM, I don't use dices. I use the GM-friendly compact dice roller because it rolls AND it gives you to final result (after canceling success/failure & boons/banes). That's a lot of time won I can spend now to work further on description, immersion and narrative effects, so players may enjoy the game more and more.

I may just be an idiot, but how do you get that dice roller to work offline?

Yeah, saving that offline will be a bit of a hassle, but it can be done.

First you'll need to save the page to your hard drive if you want to use it offline. Firefox or Chrome should do the trick.

However, you'll still need the to save the images which are handled through the javascript.

What you can do is: Select 7 of all the dice types. Roll until all the symbols appear. Save the page. Take all of the image files in the "PageName files" directory and copy it to an "img" directory at the same level as the saved HTML page. Try out the offline dice roller, if you're missing any image files try again with the online roller, until you get the missing graphics and save the page. Those additional files should be added to the "PageName files" folder and you'll just have to copy them to the "img" folder.