So I've been toying with the idea for a looooong time now. My dual ISD PT fleet is something I run my gab about more than anything on here. Locally, it wrecks. Either the players don't understand how to arc dodge, or they end up throwing something squishy in front of those ISDs by mistake, and things fall apart from there. Now that I've been playing the rebs for the last few months, and I learned the power of speed and maneuverability first hand, I've made some small adjustments to my ISD fleet. Namely, I've added Tractorbeams to everything.

I run my ISDs in formation, and in the past even evasive fleets tend to be at range 5 of at least 3 of my ships at most times. In my mind, that means as long as madine or ozzel aren't part of the picture, I can slow pretty much any small ship enough to catch and destroy it.

I'm curious if this would increase the threat a fleet like this has to offer.

In my mind, it means that small carriers like GR75s have to either abandon activating squadrons to try to speed away or get caught at blue range, and ships that need navs have to eat those commands just to keep away. In both ways, this feels like an advantage towards my fleet, as it's prime weaknesses are bombers and maneuverable ships... (@Snipafist, I think you've mentioned a friend who plays PTs often but never gets them to work, has he tried anything like this? If so what were the results?)

Nightmare Run
Author: Darth Sanguis

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 391/400

Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 159 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Admiral Screed ( 26 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Overload Pulse ( 8 points)
= 174 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
= 29 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
= 29 total ship cost

I'd be inclined to drop Needa and TRC to add Grand Inquisitor and the Suppressor title. I'd also think Admiral Titus might have a place in your list.

4 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I'd be inclined to drop Needa and TRC to add Grand Inquisitor and the Suppressor title. I'd also think Admiral Titus might have a place in your list.

Not a bad idea. You don't think guaranteeing that minimum of 7 damage from Avenger is as important? It currently has no way to reroll bad reds. It's quite possible under the changes you want it could hit a low of 5 damage.

My guy usually goes with Raider-IIs for the Overload Pulse blap. It doesn't usually work out (we've discussed it, haha).

My concern about two ISDs is it can be hard getting them both into medium range of something, even with tractor beams all over. Once it's clear what you're trying to do, potential prey will be queuing up navigate commands to get out of there before the hammer can fall.

I'd also say that with more small ships becoming increasingly a thing (most fleets have 1 medium or large ship nowadays it seems), the Overload Pulse Avenger trick seems to be less and less effective when it actually does work. A full-on ISD salvo at a CR90 will wipe it out most of the time without the ponderous extra help.

6 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Not a bad idea. You don't think guaranteeing that minimum of 7 damage from Avenger is as important? It currently has no way to reroll bad reds. It's quite possible under the changes you want it could hit a low of 5 damage.

You have to track down stuff and keep it from getting away. You also don't want to blow past the stuff you've managed to slow down and put in your arc. As Snipafist points out your opponent is going to be queuing up navigate commands from the outset.

How often are you going to miss those 2 damage and how big a deal is it? You've likely more experience with these sort of lists than me.

3 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

My guy usually goes with Raider-IIs for the Overload Pulse blap. It doesn't usually work out (we've discussed it, haha).

My concern about two ISDs is it can be hard getting them both into medium range of something, even with tractor beams all over. Once it's clear what you're trying to do, potential prey will be queuing up navigate commands to get out of there before the hammer can fall.

I'd also say that with more small ships becoming increasingly a thing (most fleets have 1 medium or large ship nowadays it seems), the Overload Pulse Avenger trick seems to be less and less effective when it actually does work. A full-on ISD salvo at a CR90 will wipe it out most of the time without the ponderous extra help.

My other consideration for this fleet was to drop the OP ISD to add 2x OP raider with tractors as well.... had a total of 6 activations all with tractors, but I've never had a great deal of success with raiders delivering OP. (at least before D-caps, maybe something to try? lol).

At a local level, I've had a pretty easy time getting targets in blue range of both(on my older fleet with no Q7s), I run navigates almost exclusively on those ISDs. Even with deployment advantages so heavily out of my favor. (But that could just be a sheer lack of skill in my meta).

Very interesting.

I'll have to test it to see... some of what you said doesn't match what happens at our local store... perhaps a tournament or vassel to get a proper feel for it.

Thanks Snipafist

2 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

You have to track down stuff and keep it from getting away. You also don't want to blow past the stuff you've managed to slow down and put in your arc. As Snipafist points out your opponent is going to be queuing up navigate commands from the outset.

How often are you going to miss those 2 damage and how big a deal is it? You've likely more experience with these sort of lists than me.

Well, I run Navs on my ISDs almost exclusively. (especially against small and nimble) So I'm not too concerned about blowing past, in most circumstances I can even manage to keep them in arc. With how I deploy, depending, of course, on variables such as 1st/2nd and objectives, I can typically target at least 1 high value ship and give it a chase, so tracking often isn't an issue (especially since those flying bricks can hit speed 3, if they're staying out of range of more than 2 of my ships, they're HAULING away lol).

I also don't always approach a game aggressively. I've won quite a few matches by deploying at 1, stacked in a corner defensively, and waiting for an opponant to reach a specific point mid-mat, Nav+token the far ISD for a sharp left/right at speed 3 Nav the inside ISD for a sharp left/right at 2 and suddenly that flanker has nowhere to go but off the board or into two front arcs.

Which all that "blah blah blah" boils down to is, I don't think I need too much help on the Navigate/speed control side of running ISDs.

The damage could be another story.

PTs are a one trick pony. If you get a successful PT and it's not enough to finish the job, you may have missed your chance entirely. (That's why the 2nd ISD instead of a VSD, or INT to deliver the PT... damage can be very important). Against any small/medium rebel ship, I could probably survive without that guaranteed extra 2, Medium Imp-Rebel Large-Large Imp I had better have brought ENOUGH gun. lol

All in all. I think your idea has valid merits. I'll have to try it to see how it adds up.

You both brought up excellent points, what do you think of this in it's stead?

Less power, but has the ability to hold a foe allowing multiple PTs....

The INT is more maneuverable at speed 3 than the ISD, so it can definitely keep up, G8s and Q7s and the title mean anything range 5 of it is going to get it's jollies rogered...

Run the Gozantis about distance 2 ahead to force out nav commands?

Thoughts?

Nightmare Run Mk.II
Author: Darth Sanguis

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 392/400

Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 159 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Combat Refit (93 points)
- Admiral Screed ( 26 points)
- Interdictor ( 3 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Overload Pulse ( 8 points)
- G-8 Experiemental Projector ( 8 points)
= 161 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 36 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 36 total ship cost

First off I love the Slicer tools.

Why the combat version instead of the Suppression? Extra blue for your overload pulse/Avenger combo plus can take Grav well projector. And does the Interdictor bring enough gun for only two combat ships and no squadrons?

18 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

First off I love the Slicer tools.

Why the combat version instead of the Suppression? Extra blue for your overload pulse/Avenger combo plus can take Grav well projector. And does the Interdictor bring enough gun for only two combat ships and no squadrons?

Yeah the slicer tools are the cherry atop this cake, "Oh you think you're leaving speed 1? lol Enjoy that engineering command"

Eh... I'm torn over the combat version, but here's what I came up with:

+Yes, the suppression is cheaper, and gives a better chance at blue crits, and could take extra grav tom foolery.
-However without gunnery teams, it's likely only PTing a single target at a time... (double arc dependent)
-The INT doesn't have high combat ability, and until the prey is at PT range, reds are more valuable than blue as damage
-Once the prey is trapped (Q7s, G8s and slicers) Screed can guarantee PTs anyways, so more blue dice aren't necessary to activate the 1 trick pony

In my mind, since the only time those blues are gonna matter is after the prey is snagged, and the reds add some long range fire... to maybe soften a foe (an evade spent on that INT's double hit can't be used when the Avenger throws it next activation)... The combat makes a little more sense.

Which feeds into your last question. To be sure, I don't know.

I've run INT PTs before and given a firm no just because they lacked the kill power even after a successful PT..... that said... the ability to hold a foe for MULTIPLE consistent hits, may change how the PT functions....

I don't think it's enough gun, but it may allow multiple hits....

(It's a lot like arguing 7 rounds in a single stack .45 or 15 rounds in a double stack 9mm, the superior method may be up to the user.)

TESTING IS REQUIRED lol

Like the second list. Looks like fun!

You might do better with Disposable Capacitors on the Interdictor to guarantee a long-range shot with the overload pulse.

This is what I'm working on currently for Jank-meister fun.

Big Pizza and Little Pies (400/400)

Objectives: Advanced Gunnery, Capture the VIP, Solar Corona

ISD II: Screed, Avenger, Support Officer, Boarding Troopers, ECM, XX-9, SW-7
Raider-II: Overload Pulse, Disposable Capacitors
Raider-II: Overload Pulse, Disposable Capacitors
Raider-I: Admiral Montferrat, Ordnance Experts, Flechette Torpedoes
Raider-I: Ordnance Experts, Flechette Torpedoes

4 minutes ago, Democratus said:

Like the second list. Looks like fun!

You might do better with Disposable Capacitors on the Interdictor to guarantee a long-range shot with the overload pulse.

This is what I'm working on currently for Jank-meister fun.

Big Pizza and Little Pies (400/400)

Objectives: Advanced Gunnery, Capture the VIP, Solar Corona

ISD II: Screed, Avenger, Support Officer, Boarding Troopers, ECM, XX-9, SW-7
Raider-II: Overload Pulse, Disposable Capacitors
Raider-II: Overload Pulse, Disposable Capacitors
Raider-I: Admiral Montferrat, Ordnance Experts, Flechette Torpedoes
Raider-I: Ordnance Experts, Flechette Torpedoes

Eh, I would be cautious leaning on D-caps instead of Q7s for effective PTs... Q7s is reusable and sets the stage for the G8s and slicers to work.... d-caps might lemme throw 2-3 blue at long range (once) but even then, I'd likely need 2+ crits to get the OP effect... as evades are pretty common at long.... not to mention, even if I get the OP at long, the ISD does it's best work at close-medium. 4 red can only give a minimum of 3 to a max of 8....

Yours looks like a fun combo, lemme know how that works for ya lol

Why bother with the PT's when you can just punish them for going faster than you:

Points: 400/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Interdictor ( 3 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
- Grav Shift Reroute ( 2 points)
- Targeting Scrambler ( 5 points)
= 137 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 104 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 104 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Instigator ( 4 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 55 total ship cost

lol. Well the point was to use Overload Pulse to enable Avenger.

6 minutes ago, TaeSWXW said:

Why bother with the PT's when you can just punish them for going faster than you:

Points: 400/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Interdictor ( 3 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
- Grav Shift Reroute ( 2 points)
- Targeting Scrambler ( 5 points)
= 137 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 104 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 104 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Instigator ( 4 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 55 total ship cost

I mean, I like this fleet, it throws some serious hurt, but it's not really how I like to play. I enjoy Pts, they're fun.

I kinda think salvage run would be the weak point to this fleet, or is there something I'm missing there? Anything fast is gonna rush in, snag that 40-60 points then jump out of range?

If you line up directly across from the station, then use Grav Shift to move the rocks out of your way, you can pretty easily jump forward and snag them... but slowly enough that opponents might be tempted to swoop in and get walloped.