24 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:Back when I started playing people were jumping maybe one shark every few games. Last store champs I went to; the winning guy jumped a total of 47 sharks throughout just one game. The shark creep is real.
That's Cluster Sharks with Extra Sharks tokens for you.
7 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:That's Cluster Sharks with Extra Sharks tokens for you.
Those guidance fins are clearly OP.
49 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:1 hour ago, Smutpedler said:Back when I started playing people were jumping maybe one shark every few games. Last store champs I went to; the winning guy jumped a total of 47 sharks throughout just one game. The shark creep is real.
That's Cluster Sharks with Extra Sharks tokens for you.
Those guidance fins are clearly OP.
Having flashbacks to the week the FB group was filled with ******* Hey, That's My Fish posts! 
4 hours ago, sozin said:
You have won the internet today my friend. Not enough likes for this!
21 hours ago, Slugrage said:From Wikipedia, which sums it up nicely: "Jumping the shark" is attempting to draw attention to or create publicity for something that is perceived as not warranting the attention, especially something that is believed to be past its peak in quality or relevance. " It's that moment when something goes downhill, never to recapture it's past glory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
starting to sound like Xwing...
17 hours ago, Slugrage said:Yes it was, and I remember watching the episode... in September 1977.
I do, too. I also had the Happy Days board game. You had to collect cool points. I'm OAF.
On 7/11/2017 at 4:44 AM, Blail Blerg said:But the real shark is really all of Core-Wave3. This section of material now shows up something like nearly 20%-.
Wait a second... am I understanding you correctly that your complaint is that about 20%* of the game is represented about 20%** of the time?
*Let's see how much Core-W3 represents in various measurements
By Wave... 3/11 = 27.2%
By Releases... 16 (half imp vets + half HotR) / 55 = 29.1%
By Time... 9/14/12 -> 9/12/13 = 363 days / 9/14/12 -> 7/13/17 = 1763 days = 20.5%
By Ships... 12/34 = 35.3% (excluding epic ships... Including them -> 12/39 = 30.8%)
**And let's take a look at that estimated 20% representation number... Looking at ListJuggler, the Core-W3 ships are represented:
164 (X) + 109 (Y) + 53 (A) + 128 (YT1300) + 28 (B) + 71 (HWK) + 138 (ln) + 56 (x1) + 43 (in) + 47 (FS31) + 39 (sa) + 30 (lambda) = 906 times
Overall data shows 3237 times for a composition of 27.9%
So, what's the problem with 27% of the game showing up in 28% of the lists?
I agree, I believe both the Auziteck and Scurrg should have been agility 0. With No EPT on the Squrrg.
3 hours ago, Khyros said:Wait a second... am I understanding you correctly that your complaint is that about 20%* of the game is represented about 20%** of the time?
*Let's see how much Core-W3 represents in various measurements
By Wave... 3/11 = 27.2%
By Releases... 16 (half imp vets + half HotR) / 55 = 29.1%
By Time... 9/14/12 -> 9/12/13 = 363 days / 9/14/12 -> 7/13/17 = 1763 days = 20.5%
By Ships... 12/34 = 35.3% (excluding epic ships... Including them -> 12/39 = 30.8%)
**And let's take a look at that estimated 20% representation number... Looking at ListJuggler, the Core-W3 ships are represented:
164 (X) + 109 (Y) + 53 (A) + 128 (YT1300) + 28 (B) + 71 (HWK) + 138 (ln) + 56 (x1) + 43 (in) + 47 (FS31) + 39 (sa) + 30 (lambda) = 906 times
Overall data shows 3237 times for a composition of 27.9%
So, what's the problem with 27% of the game showing up in 28% of the lists?
First is that represented by total appearance (including losing like crap). How does that change if you look at top 8 of all 2017?
Second I think you can answer this yourself: is it possibly not a problem that the OT Ships to not appear very often?
4 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:First is that represented by total appearance (including losing like crap). How does that change if you look at top 8 of all 2017?
Second I think you can answer this yourself: is it possibly not a problem that the OT Ships to not appear very often?
That was just a straight pull from listjuggler (source data: http://meta-wing.com/ships?) which I believe is all ships, not just top 8.
And as for the OT ships, Star Wars is a much larger universe than just the 3 movies. I would consider any ship that gets screen time to be mainstream. Therefore, my list would include:
X Wing, Y Wing, A Wing, B Wing, YT-1300, VCX-100, Attack Shuttle, ARC-170, T-70, U Wing, Sabine's TIE, /ln, /x1, /in, /sa, Firespray-31, Lambda Shuttle, /v1, /sf, /fo, /striker (what's that abbreviation?), Upsilon Shuttle, Lancer Pursuit Craft, Protectorate. Note how ships that have cameo appearances (YT-2400, Quadjumper) aren't on this list. It's also worth noting how almost no scum ships are listed since most are them are from the EU, so realizing that there is a 3rd faction means that there will be a large EU presence to make it work. But those ships I listed, which all have considerable screen time, account for 2082 appearances, which is 64% of total appearances. In other words, two out of three ships you see on the table you should be able to place. While we will have a differing view as to whether or not that should be 100% or only OT ships should count or whatever, the fact is that for a game that's continuing to expand, there's still a lot of core Star Wars ships on the table. Obviously those that don't watch Rebels won't recognize the VCX-100, or the Protectorate Starfighter, but you could make the same argument for someone who only casually watched the OT - what's a TIE interceptor or a B wing? They get oh so very little screen time (poor folks at ILM that spent countless hours detailing them all out for them to get 5sec of screen time), so you really need to know what you're looking for to pick up on them... Or you need to have played TIE Fighter or something as a secondary source.
The game jumped the shark in wave 4. After playing for an entire year against Fat Falcons and TIE Phantoms and having my play group tell me how the game was perfectly balanced and that Phantoms didn't ruin the game, I'm dead to it.
Miranda gets infinite bombs? Rebels get a second Biggs to protect their first Biggs? Scum gets small base Jumpmasters that can take Deadeye? Sure, why not.
This game is never going to return to the pre-cancer golden age. Anyone with nostalgia for any wave after wave 3 has nostalgia for cancer in one form or another. Those that ***** about Interceptors no longer being viable haven't experienced a time where Soontir was THE cancer.
I say you just shrug and roll with it. Pick your favorite cancer and use that. There is plenty of variety in our current meta and the game is pretty fun.
Edited by SaltMaster 50002 hours ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:I say you just shrug and roll with it. Pick your favorite cancer and use that. There is plenty of variety in our current meta and the game is pretty fun.
I like your attitude. There's always room for game balance improvement, but since the Great Nerfing, there is more variety than there has ever been before.
These are all good choices:
This list is by no means comprehensive. There are just so many different pilots that can compete nowadays.
http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=3119
Small sample but shows how diversity can still overcome the meta.
Thats 3 rebel lists in the top 4 (mine in 4th place).
Balance isnt perfect but its not too dire - yea the action economy and power creep of Scum is insane but its not unbeatable by other factions. I do hope for a nerf to a lot of Scum things and I play them right now.
2 hours ago, Kalandros said:http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=3119
Small sample but shows how diversity can still overcome the meta.
Thats 3 rebel lists in the top 4 (mine in 4th place).
Balance isnt perfect but its not too dire - yea the action economy and power creep of Scum is insane but its not unbeatable by other factions. I do hope for a nerf to a lot of Scum things and I play them right now.
I'm not clear on what you mean.. The tournament you selected seems to have a very diverse meta but I don't see a single player that chose what I would consider one of the top "worldwide" lists right now. It's astounding in that respect, but there was no "meta" (at least in terms of what most areas are seeing) to overcome, except if you mean that people simply didn't bring it.
Edited by AlexWThe other major issue. Is that more an more ships keep making flying easier and easier. The Pilot abilities also become more and more powerful. Which makes actual flying less and less meaningful.
The game has become more about combos then flying. that is not good for the game, IMO.
5 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:The other major issue. Is that more an more ships keep making flying easier and easier. The Pilot abilities also become more and more powerful. Which makes actual flying less and less meaningful.
The game has become more about combos then flying. that is not good for the game, IMO.
How on earth is flying easier? when all you had to do in the past was get a PS9 with PTL and just boost barrel roll every turn to cancel any good flying your opponent did or compensate for any bad flying you did.
I don't know what game you are playing but flying is super critical to my games, and not easy at all. You know how you kill a biggs list? by out flying the **** out of it.... if you can separate biggs from his boys with solid bumping you win. How do you kill danger? you out flying him and shoot him in his ***. 90% of the **** people complain about on this forums are defeated by skilled flying, if you think flying is easy and not meaningful and then complain about the stuff that's countered by good flying then there is no hope for you.
If you think flying is easy then my guess half or more of your games are lost because you flew badly whether you think so or not.
Getting a target lock even if you bump, (r4), getting a Rey even if you bump, setting off genius and not worrying about it's effect on your ship Nym. There are other actions that let you do stuff even if you fly poorly. Personally I don't think you should ever gain any bonus when you bump including mindlink. You are two busy trying not to crash for any bonus to be earned. Spending a token to give others automatic evades, not an extra die but an automatic evade. Unlimited bombs, and gaining an evade not an extra die, but an evade result. when shot through them.
Also blocking used to be a valid strategy, not so much anymore.
Edited by eagletsi111
11 hours ago, Khyros said:So, what's the problem with 27% of the game showing up in 28% of the lists?
Cuz it's the best 27%.
Somebody wanna revoke this guy's "Advocate of A's and E's Everywhere" License? 
11 hours ago, SaltMaster 5000 said:The game jumped the shark in wave 4. After playing for an entire year against Fat Falcons and TIE Phantoms and having my play group tell me how the game was perfectly balanced and that Phantoms didn't ruin the game, I'm dead to it.
Miranda gets infinite bombs? Rebels get a second Biggs to protect their first Biggs? Scum gets small base Jumpmasters that can take Deadeye? Sure, why not.
This game is never going to return to the pre-cancer golden age. Anyone with nostalgia for any wave after wave 3 has nostalgia for cancer in one form or another. Those that ***** about Interceptors no longer being viable haven't experienced a time where Soontir was THE cancer.
I say you just shrug and roll with it. Pick your favorite cancer and use that. There is plenty of variety in our current meta and the game is pretty fun.
Imo there never was a true golden age. We though certian things were pretty golden. They were ok. Wave 7 or 8 kinda pre-3jump masters was pretty good. After autothrusters hit. And Palp, but I'm a little biased. =)
5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:Cuz it's the best 27%.
Somebody wanna revoke this guy's "Advocate of A's and E's Everywhere" License?
hahahahahaahaha
i mean right??
8 hours ago, eagletsi111 said:Also blocking used to be a valid strategy, not so much anymore.
Poppycock. It's still a perfectly valid strategy, just as it always has been. Bumping prevents shots, prevents repositioning shenanigans, prevents the usage of "Action:" header upgrades, lines up shots for the rest of your list, prevents you completing your maneuver, making subsequent manuevers more difficult... hell you can't even x7 on a bump any more.
Why do you think Intel Agent is drawing a lot of criticism at the moment? Because it assists in setting up bumps, or preventing them.
A much less hyperbolic way of making that claim would be to say "If you're running Mindlink or K4 you don't need to worry so much about being blocked". It would still be wrong, of course,.
3 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:A much less hyperbolic way of making that claim would be to say "If you're running Mindlink or K4 you don't need to worry so much about being blocked". It would still be wrong, of course,.
But if you're running K4 AND Expertise you can bump all day and still get fully modded shots off on everyone else.
8 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:But if you're running K4 AND Expertise you can bump all day and still get fully modded shots off on everyone else.
Apart from the ship you've just bumped, of course. Unless you're also running Zeb crew, and if that's the case you've locked yourself into a very specific build.
And you'd still be suffering from all the other negative drawbacks from bumping, as highlighted above.
Edited by FTS GeckoI don't get the Expertise agruement; it's 4pts and is shut down by stress.
K4, i can see needing a x7 style nerf and that's only because, all the green moves large ships have in scum faction, they are very eco-friendly with all the greens
Edited by the1hodgy10 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:Apart from the ship you've just bumped, of course. Unless you're also running Zeb crew, and if that's the case you've locked yourself into a very specific build.
And you'd still be suffering from all the other negative drawbacks from bumping, as highlighted above.
Not being able to shoot the ship that bumped you isn't a penalty, it's a benefit, it means it's not shooting YOU.
10 minutes ago, the1hodgy said:I don't get the Expertise agruement; it's 4pts and is shut down by stress.
K4, i can see needing a x7 style nerf and that's only because, all the green moves large ships have in scum faction, they are very eco-friendly with all the greens
Yeah, we're literally talking corner cases here. Hardly making blocking "not a valid strategy anymore".
And even with K4 it's really just two large ships, the Shadowcaster and the JM5K (especially with Unhinged). Of those two I'd say the JM5K is the biggest issue.... again.
Not being able to shoot the ship that bumped you isn't a penalty, it's a benefit, it means it's not shooting YOU.
If the ship you've bumped is the only ship you've got in your firing arc, it's a penalty. If the ship you've bumped is rocking Anti-Pursuit Lasers and Feedback Array, it's a penalty. If there are other ships targeting you as well, it's a really big penalty.
There are cases (again; corner cases) where deliberately bumping is a benefit (Ketsu, Oicunn, self bumping Shuttles or fortressing if you're that way inclined), but the majority of the time, if someone's successfully blocked your movement, it's not a good thing.
Edited by FTS Gecko
