So we Rebels got a new Commander this cycle, too. I PERSONALLY think she's way cooler than Sloane, butttttttt I may be biased or something. In any case, crowdsourcing a question here. Has anyone tried her with intense squadron pushing? I've got a flotilla that doesn't mind adding in some squadron commands, but are people trying her with intense squadronning like a Rebel Tarkin almost? I'm hesitant to do so, but I'm intrigued by the idea enough to try it out if no one else has.

I'll be exploring the possibility.

I mean, my squadron component for my battles on Sunday just passed (vs Wave 6, but not owning any myself) was:

Norra
4 Ys
Blount
4 Xs
2 VCXs

Which was basically more than my MC80A, AFMKIIB and GR75 could basically push on their own.

4 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I'll be exploring the possibility.

I mean, my squadron component for my battles on Sunday just passed (vs Wave 6, but not owning any myself) was:

Norra
4 Ys
Blount
4 Xs
2 VCXs

Which was basically more than my MC80A, AFMKIIB and GR75 could basically push on their own.

Nice, im interested to hear as i built a Norra, 4 Ys, 4 X's, and Jan blob. Why Blount in your list? Just because scatter ace?

19 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Nice, im interested to hear as i built a Norra, 4 Ys, 4 X's, and Jan blob. Why Blount in your list? Just because scatter ace?

Basically.

The AF also had Flight Controllers, so I was looking at the damage potential provided by 1 Blue, 3 Red, with Double Reroll.

2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Basically.

The AF also had Flight Controllers, so I was looking at the damage potential provided by 1 Blue, 3 Red, with Double Reroll.

But he doesnt have double reroll, he only gives it to friendlies with swarm....

changing topics some, i like the IDEA of an assault frigate with Leia. The only issue i currently have is points, though, haha.

24 minutes ago, geek19 said:

But he doesnt have double reroll, he only gives it to friendlies with swarm....

changing topics some, i like the IDEA of an assault frigate with Leia. The only issue i currently have is points, though, haha.

Blount flies in, does what he wants.

The AF then powered 4 Fighters to get all of their rerolls.. From Swarm + Blount. That's what i meant.

Just to get as much workup as possible... Double-Reroll meant to reroll 2 dice.

but without dagger or other z95s where is the swarm units for blouts ability to be used?

4 hours ago, geek19 said:

So we Rebels got a new Commander this cycle, too. I PERSONALLY think she's way cooler than Sloane, butttttttt I may be biased or something. In any case, crowdsourcing a question here. Has anyone tried her with intense squadron pushing? I've got a flotilla that doesn't mind adding in some squadron commands, but are people trying her with intense squadronning like a Rebel Tarkin almost? I'm hesitant to do so, but I'm intrigued by the idea enough to try it out if no one else has.

In my experience, we, Rebels normally dont bring to the table as much squadrons as Imperials, maybe trading quality over quantity (this is arguable) but seems like the game itself does not want us to be able to manage as many of them at a time like imperials do. Quasar + EHB, relay2 lambdas over relay 1 VCX, ISD's... proves this. Sure we all have the token wildcard to play, but also imperials do have this so in the end we are always going one step back on squadron commands.

Why try to push ffg in the other direction. Just follow the mace they are biulding for us. We will find something cool besides having massive alpha strikes.

1 hour ago, TerrorScream said:

but without dagger or other z95s where is the swarm units for blouts ability to be used?

Yup, he works only on swarm keyword fighters, basically those you mentioned. To take the best out of this composition:

-Send some non swarm squadron.
-Send Blount to reroll with his own swarm. (he cant reroll with his own skill)
-Send the rest of your swarm squadrons to reroll up to two dice, one for swarm, one for Blount.

Yes and no. I like what she does for the GR-75 as a carrier (3 squads every turn), but you have to go beyond that. She's best with MSU, and not every ship in that fleet is going to be used as a carrier. You have to take a combined arms approach. Here's my theoretical Leia list:

Neb Gunline (399/400)

====================
Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 + 55)
+ Leia Organa (38)
+ Skilled First Officer (1)
+ Entrapment Formation! (5)
+ Engine Techs (8)
+ External Racks (3)

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 12)
+ Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)
+ Salvation (7)

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 5)
+ Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 5)
+ Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

Shara Bey (17)
Tycho Celchu (16)
4 x A-wing Squadron (11)

Contested Outpost
Solar Corona
Most Wanted

Entrapment Formation's effectiveness is going to be the key to whether this works or not. The Nebs are just going to be con firing all day long to maximize the add/re-roll mechanic. The GR-75s are able to handles all 6 A-Wings on their own. Entrapment Formation will theoretically stay with just those commands. Turn 1 the Pelta pockets the token. From then on, it can decide to either a) trigger Entrapment and pocket another token, b) use the command to trigger Engine Techs or c) use con fire and the SFO to unload 2 red and 5 black with ER and Leia's add/re-roll.

All the z95s all the time.

1 hour ago, Truthiness said:

Yes and no. I like what she does for the GR-75 as a carrier (3 squads every turn), but you have to go beyond that. She's best with MSU, and not every ship in that fleet is going to be used as a carrier. You have to take a combined arms approach. Here's my theoretical Leia list:

Neb Gunline (398/400)
====================
Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 + 55)
+ Leia Organa (38)
+ Skilled First Officer (1)
+ Entrapment Formation! (5)
+ Engine Techs (8)
+ External Racks (3)

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 7)
+ Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 7)
+ Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 7)
+ Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

Shara Bey (17)
Tycho Celchu (16)
4 x A-wing Squadron (11)

Contested Outpost
Solar Corona
Most WantedNeb Gunline (399/400)
====================
Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 + 55)
+ Leia Organa (38)
+ Skilled First Officer (1)
+ Entrapment Formation! (5)
+ Engine Techs (8)
+ External Racks (3)

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 12)
+ Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)
+ Salvation (7)

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 5)
+ Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 5)
+ Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

Shara Bey (17)
Tycho Celchu (16)
4 x A-wing Squadron (11)

Contested Outpost
Solar Corona
Most Wanted

Entrapment Formation's effectiveness is going to be the key to whether this works or not. The Nebs are just going to be con firing all day long to maximize the add/re-roll mechanic. The GR-75s are able to handles all 6 A-Wings on their own. Entrapment Formation will theoretically stay with just those commands. Turn 1 the Pelta pockets the token. From then on, it can decide to either a) trigger Entrapment and pocket another token, b) use the command to trigger Engine Techs or c) use con fire and the SFO to unload 2 red and 5 black with ER and Leia's add/re-roll.

I'd swap salv over trcs on one of those

9 hours ago, geek19 said:

So we Rebels got a new Commander this cycle, too. I PERSONALLY think she's way cooler than Sloane, butttttttt I may be biased or something. In any case, crowdsourcing a question here. Has anyone tried her with intense squadron pushing? I've got a flotilla that doesn't mind adding in some squadron commands, but are people trying her with intense squadronning like a Rebel Tarkin almost? I'm hesitant to do so, but I'm intrigued by the idea enough to try it out if no one else has.

She is going to augment whatever command a ship typically wishes to run. If the ship wants to push squads Leia will add to that. If the ship wants to navigate Leia will add to that. She's the "combined arms" admiral. Whatever you've put a ship into the fleet to do Leia will allow it to be better at it.

You aren't going to not use her with the full 134 points of squadrons as you're likely already building around being able to command them all. She will simply add to the options and add to the options for setting dials once everything hits the table. With Leia you might not feel the need to take a bunch of Expanded Hangar Bays or Boosted Comms since Leia's add effect can provide that in a fashion.

She seems to me like she'd be best in an MSU fleet that wants to Navigate every turn and do lots of extreme maneuvers and speed changing shenanigans. So in something like this is she better or worse than some other admiral?

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400

Commander: Leia Organa

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Fighter Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
- Leia Organa ( 38 points)
- Gallant Haven ( 8 points)
- Flight Commander ( 3 points)
- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)
- Rapid Launch Bays ( 6 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
= 140 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points)
- Yavaris ( 5 points)
- Fighter Coordination Team ( 3 points)
= 65 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
= 41 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 26 total ship cost

2 B-Wing Squadrons ( 28 points)
2 E-Wing Squadrons ( 30 points)
1 VCX-100 Freighter ( 15 points)
1 Wedge Antilles ( 19 points)
1 Norra Wexley ( 17 points)
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

Yesterday I build a fleet with 5 hammerheads and pretty close to max squadrons (primarily bomber) with General Leia. 2 had expanded hangers and flight controllers and external racks, other 3 had Expanded hanger OE and APT. Meant I could in a pinch get 15 squad commands and losing one or two wouldn't decrease my squadron activation ability. In my mind, it was kind of like the Rebel hybrid of Tokras 8 gozanti imperial bomber list and MC30 spam.

13 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

Whatever you've put a ship into the fleet to do Leia will allow it to be better at it.

This is the point with Leia, she is not adding anything brand new to work with, like Sloane does. Anything you do with her you can already do it properly banking tokens at the first stages of the game or through comms net support.

I belive this lack of newness in contrast with Sloane is making rebel players kind of apathetic about her. I mean, there are tons of discussions about making Sloane work, there is nothing really to discuss about Leia since tokens gameplay is something we all know well already. Even Cracken was more smashing and generated more player feedback than Leia. Althought it turned to be pretty bad in actual gameplay.

Well, I think that's a little simplified, Xerpo.

Leia allows the same as a proper set of token play, indeed... For the Second turn.

- She's then replicating you having, effectively, CommsNet for *every* ship in your Fleet the Third Turn. Without having to worry about Activation Order (a big deal)...

... and the fourth turn...

... and the fifth turn...

... and the sixth turn...

It is a rare game where you can say you had exactly the token and could match it exactly with the command when needed... I mean, its not impossible ... i've done it with Garm and my Command 3 Ships - but that was dicey, and involved jumping commands every turn to make sure I used what I had...

... Ahsoka can work, but she's only helping one ship...

Leia is easier to do it with, for sure - that is her benefit... The Tricky part of Leia is, we've been deep-down in Fleet Support and Multipurpose ships on the Rebels for so long , that thinking Single-Command Ability is very difficult to talk about now... But I'm sure we'll get to it.

11 hours ago, geek19 said:

So we Rebels got a new Commander this cycle, too. I PERSONALLY think she's way cooler than Sloane, butttttttt I may be biased or something. In any case, crowdsourcing a question here. Has anyone tried her with intense squadron pushing? I've got a flotilla that doesn't mind adding in some squadron commands, but are people trying her with intense squadronning like a Rebel Tarkin almost? I'm hesitant to do so, but I'm intrigued by the idea enough to try it out if no one else has.

On paper, I would think she works well with the Liberty title card.

I also think she is going to allow Wing Commander to make a comeback, as you want to be able to utilize her ability every turn, and larger ships with higher command values can present difficulties with battle planning.

58 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

On paper, I would think she works well with the Liberty title card.

I also think she is going to allow Wing Commander to make a comeback, as you want to be able to utilize her ability every turn, and larger ships with higher command values can present difficulties with battle planning.

I actually think liasons and that turn 1 token.

32 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

I actually think liasons and that turn 1 token.

Yeah, you save 3 points that way, and could even integrate a Comms net flotilla with Toryn to supplement squads and feed tokens if needed.

One thing I've noticed is that the ship that a commander comes with is often a perfect fit for that commander. Sure, we can mix and match units into lists with other ships and commanders, and sure there's been a dud or two, but on the whole, there's a clear pattern.

Leia wants ships that not only want a super command, but also don't need to spend gobs of tokens per turn. This by itself suggests that one steer away from 3 command ships, especially those that like to pile up and spend them all in one whoosh. So that generally means MSU.

I think the flotillas pushing 3 (or 4 with EHB) is on the right track for her, but let's also look at that Hammerhead that she comes with:

1. The One Command of the Hammerhead means that it can adjust commands to the needs of the battle on the fly. I'd say Nav on approach and CF once you arrive are the key commands, but depending upon list build, squadron could work (see a previous poster above). At command 1, it also won't be banking a lot of tokens.

2. Nav Commands: With Leia, there's some benefit to setting the opening speed at 1 and just letting the situation develop. But even if someone tractors or Konstantines you down to speed-1, a Leia Nav command means you are always going speed-3 when you need to go speed-3. So there's a definitely kind of flexibility here.

3. CF Commands: Although you can take Ordinance Experts on the Torpedo variant, it is still pretty expensive for one big burst shot. So there's an open question of "can you get enough with just that single CF reroll?" You're not trying to trigger black crits typically. You're just trying to maximize your damage. A single reroll might just be enough. The same is true on the Scout variant where rerolling a single red die at long range might be enough to fix your dice without having to add points for DTT, TRC, or something else. So she's indirectly affecting the amount of points you're putting on a HH while keeping roughly the same level of combat performance.

4. Squadron Commands: I think these can get sneaky because one of the tricks in the game is the command squadrons exactly when you need to command squadrons. For a ship that will likely activate first on a critical turn, activating two or three squads (see the EHB build from an earlier poster) could just be downright critical.

5. Engineering Commands: Let's look at TF-A. Most people so far have commented that they'd just use the build as is, because who would want to use an engineering command. That may turn out to be right, but it at least causes me to look at the make-up of the ship and wonder if there's some kind of benefit to engineering. Maybe. Bear with me. If you've got Leia as commander, you get a super-command on approach, and it is hardly worthwhile to bank a token since you get the effect anyway and spending any other token nullifies her ability. On approach, you're just looking to make sure your HH get there, and TF-A helps with that. Engineering might be a good command in the intervening turns. It can minimally regen a lost shield from the card, and with the super command, its exactly what you need to drop a damage card. That card might be the difference between dying on your initial ram, and living to activate first next round. So even though we're only talking one damage, we're talking a pretty significant point of damage. And that, to my mind, is how TF-A is set up as a potential penalty that has to be managed. Whether this makes more sense than bossing two squads around with a super-squad command, or just taking CF shots with the CF command is anyone's guess, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

16 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Basically.

The AF also had Flight Controllers, so I was looking at the damage potential provided by 1 Blue, 3 Red, with Double Reroll.

Wait, you can add 1 blue to Z95s? I thought "increase" was different from "add" in that you could only increase an armament value if it was originally in the attack pool?

3 minutes ago, eliteone said:

Wait, you can add 1 blue to Z95s? I thought "increase" was different from "add" in that you could only increase an armament value if it was originally in the attack pool?

If the upgrade card tells you to add a blue die, you add a blue die.

Edit: And no, you can increase something you don't have. For example, Enhanced Armaments on a MC30 Torpedo. It only has Blue and Black dice, but equipping EA means it now has a Red die out its side as well.

You may be thinking of Concentrate Fire commands, which allow you to add a die to your attack pool of a color which is already in the pool.

3 minutes ago, Valca said:

If the upgrade card tells you to add a blue die, you add a blue die.

Edit: And no, you can increase something you don't have. For example, Enhanced Armaments on a MC30 Torpedo. It only has Blue and Black dice, but equipping EA means it now has a Red die out its side as well.

You may be thinking of Concentrate Fire commands, which allow you to add a die to your attack pool of a color which is already in the pool.

Nah, it was just the wording on Flight Controllers was increase, and EH/Spinal/DTT/QLT etc. is add...so ...when the words while, when, etc all mean different things FFG has me paranoid about the meaning of words haha. Thanks for the clarification though. Going to play with running Blount and 3x Z95s with a YT 1300 tanking.

10 hours ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

On paper, I would think she works well with the Liberty title card.

I thought this as well, initially. Squadron 4 every turn, great!

But if there's any ship that needs to spam nav commands, its the Liberty...and Leia makes you choose between squadrons and nav. So unless you're super confident driving the Liberty with just its base nav chart, Liberty is probably better off with another admiral.

Over time my view on Liberty is that its best use is to use the token to command two squadrons at a time, not 4. This leaves your dial free to nav, CF, or repair. And for that, someone like Garm (or anyone else) is probably better.

5 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Over time my view on Liberty is that its best use is to use the token to command two squadrons at a time, not 4. This leaves your dial free to nav, CF, or repair. And for that, someone like Garm (or anyone else) is probably better.

Yeah, pretty much this for my thoughts on the Liberty. Throw Ahsoka on there and you've got a party.

10 hours ago, Maturin said:

I thought this as well, initially. Squadron 4 every turn, great!

But if there's any ship that needs to spam nav commands, its the Liberty...and Leia makes you choose between squadrons and nav. So unless you're super confident driving the Liberty with just its base nav chart, Liberty is probably better off with another admiral.

Over time my view on Liberty is that its best use is to use the token to command two squadrons at a time, not 4. This leaves your dial free to nav, CF, or repair. And for that, someone like Garm (or anyone else) is probably better.

Put ET on it and hold onto a nav token. With SFO, you can run Nav, Squad, Squad, Nav, Squad, Squad, Nav and make sure you hit the correct command and burn the token for an extra move. In my experience with command 3 ships, by the time I hit that 3rd command is when I use SFO. You could also bank a squad token early so when you nav you can still use Liberty.

I think the bigger problem is using a Liberty.