1 minute ago, Thornoo1 said:

Is it just me or does the elven army have a weird dichotomy at the core of its construction?

On the one hand there's a whole lot of shifts which seem to encourage you to stay disengaged and therefore being out in the open to be able to achieve this seems like a solid plan. But on the other hand the use of overgrown encourages the army to stay close to the terrain and use its ability to enhance your units. This would seem to encourage play which would see your units being engaged as they aren't as nimble due to being anchored to within range 1-2 of the overgrown terrain.

Any thoughts on that?

I don't think it's a dichotomy as much as it is an enabling of that terrain-based playstyle. Terrain is difficult for most units to effectively maneuver especially when they're too large to actually occupy it. I think all the shifts will allow you to kind of keep circling around the terrain to avoid engagements. It should also provide more precise control of exactly how close you are to it in order to enable those overgrowth-related abilities. It's less about hunkering down in one spot and more about being able to stick near the terrain while playing enemies for position.

All that's just my guess though. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in practice.

Just now, Willange said:

All that's just my guess though. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in practice.

Absolutely will be interesting. Just to check, to make a terrain piece overgrown the army needs upgrade cards which say "Overgrow X"? So the Verdant Sorceress will enable two Overgrown tokens?

Not to be too contrary as I am actually excited to play this army but I'm not too sure how much you'll be able to utilise the terrain. Many times you'll be wanting to pick the scenario card which will often mean you'll only be placing 1 piece of terrain. Canny opponents will place their 2 pieces at extreme ends of the board to try an negate the use of overgrown terrain.

The herald that adds an overgrowth token to the middle of nowhere will greatly help that. Limited by up to range5 of wherever you deploy him, but until his card goes away (which tells you what to do with the token) you could easily bridge the gap between two pieces of terrain to have an effective 6range area to benefit from overgrowth in.
Thats pretty dang wide. About all it doesnt do is benefit flankers since you cant put it on the other side of the board (typically)

Just now, Vineheart01 said:

The herald that adds an overgrowth token to the middle of nowhere will greatly help that. Limited by up to range5 of wherever you deploy him, but until his card goes away (which tells you what to do with the token) you could easily bridge the gap between two pieces of terrain to have an effective 6range area to benefit from overgrowth in.
Thats pretty dang wide. About all it doesnt do is benefit flankers since you cant put it on the other side of the board (typically)

I can very much see the theory behind the use of overgrown and think it's a cool mechanic. But the practice is going to take, excuse me, practice. The elves are certainly not going to be a beginner army if you want full use out of the overgrown mechanic.

2 hours ago, Tvayumat said:

Really?

I think it's handy to have a few common tools in the box.

That and the tactical elf has 4 armour, that's pretty durable. Great for shift nanigans

4 minutes ago, Thornoo1 said:

Absolutely will be interesting. Just to check, to make a terrain piece overgrown the army needs upgrade cards which say "Overgrow X"? So the Verdant Sorceress will enable two Overgrown tokens?

Not to be too contrary as I am actually excited to play this army but I'm not too sure how much you'll be able to utilise the terrain. Many times you'll be wanting to pick the scenario card which will often mean you'll only be placing 1 piece of terrain. Canny opponents will place their 2 pieces at extreme ends of the board to try an negate the use of overgrown terrain.

I actually almost always go for the deployment, personally. I don't find that the scenarios tend to help or hinder me too greatly. Terrain is another story. Regardless, you are correct that sometimes your opponent will place the terrain. In those situations, I think it's important to deploy your units near it and any relevant objective tokens near it when possible. Also, it's important that your strategies be multifaceted so that some things can go wrong but you still win anyway.

If the Latari get an artefact carrier as a champion then an Archer unit with Heartseeker shifting round terrain while being able to shoot through it could be useful.

I'm thinking that a build of 6 2x1 archer units might be viable. The shiftyness of them may be a hard counter for that goddamned Spearstar. Simply never let it hit you.

I'm leaning towards getting two army boxes and then one of each of the expansions. I had thought I'd get away with only one army box.

25 minutes ago, Darthain said:

That and the tactical elf has 4 armour, that's pretty durable. Great for shift nanigans

Shift-nanigans...

I love it.

9 minutes ago, stet2 said:

If the Latari get an artefact carrier as a champion then an Archer unit with Heartseeker shifting round terrain while being able to shoot through it could be useful.

It would have to be a large block to get more use out of the 10 pt upgrade, but yeah that will be fun to try.

3x2 Archers are 42pts naked. Relic bearer for the other two is 4pts, so 14pts for the Heartseeker = 56pts and you still have Training/Equipment/Music slots open.
Atm probably the only training worth putting on them is either Rank Disc (another reroll is always nice) or Moment of Inspiration so they can hit harder (have a weakling archer unit with Rallying music around?)

In the end probably putting dang near 100pts into that LoS ignoring unit. At that cost, you wont have much to protect being flanked on both sides.
You could put CQC on there so they could shoot in melee, but thats adding points (and reducing damage) for a failsafe that isnt even that good of a failsafe.

4 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

3x2 Archers are 42pts naked. Relic bearer for the other two is 4pts, so 14pts for the Heartseeker = 56pts and you still have Training/Equipment/Music slots open.
Atm probably the only training worth putting on them is either Rank Disc (another reroll is always nice) or Moment of Inspiration so they can hit harder (have a weakling archer unit with Rallying music around?)

In the end probably putting dang near 100pts into that LoS ignoring unit. At that cost, you wont have much to protect being flanked on both sides.

If you are going to go with this I'd go Hunter's Guile rather than Moment of Inspiration since it isn't exhausted and can be used on a ranged attack. I'd also add the Storm Sorceress given the white skill modifier and tempered steel just for the extra hit.

20 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

3x2 Archers are 42pts naked. Relic bearer for the other two is 4pts, so 14pts for the Heartseeker = 56pts and you still have Training/Equipment/Music slots open.
Atm probably the only training worth putting on them is either Rank Disc (another reroll is always nice) or Moment of Inspiration so they can hit harder (have a weakling archer unit with Rallying music around?)

In the end probably putting dang near 100pts into that LoS ignoring unit. At that cost, you wont have much to protect being flanked on both sides.
You could put CQC on there so they could shoot in melee, but thats adding points (and reducing damage) for a failsafe that isnt even that good of a failsafe.

Moment of Inspiration is Melee only. Use hunters guile and tempered steel instead to boost damage. Or fire rune as you have built in Percise.

A few of the options seem pretty snazzy but I would like to see a bit more of this expansion before getting one or two. I do like the continued support for Overgrowth and I think that's what I'll build around with Latari lists.

10 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

Since I gave the Uthuk models such a hard time, I've gotta give the elves their fair due. Most of them look great, honestly, but champion didn't turn out as well as I think it could have. The concept image makes a ton of sense, but in the execution of the model, they made two changes that kind of ruin the effect: 1) the arms are no longer in a straight line, and 2) the face is not looking where the sword is pointing. The overall effect, at least in my opinion, is that he is directing traffic, telling one lane to stop while waving another lane through. [But let's be real -- I couldn't do any better!] Perhaps the reason for the change (especially changing the arm angles) was to make sure it could fit in a tray with other infantry.

The thing that was the biggest flaw in executing the concept art is the changed foot positions. The model's stepping the wrong way to put his weight behind his strike.

8 hours ago, Thornoo1 said:

Is it just me or does the elven army have a weird dichotomy at the core of its construction?

On the one hand there's a whole lot of shifts which seem to encourage you to stay disengaged and therefore being out in the open to be able to achieve this seems like a solid plan. But on the other hand the use of overgrown encourages the army to stay close to the terrain and use its ability to enhance your units. This would seem to encourage play which would see your units being engaged as they aren't as nimble due to being anchored to within range 1-2 of the overgrown terrain.

Any thoughts on that?

My proxy game so far with elves has suggested to me that it won't be so much about staying disengaged in the open as it will be about having that extra mobility that lets you use your proximity to terrain (which you want if you're overgrowing it anyways) to your advantage in outmaneuvering your enemy's charges. If you can make them hit the terrain, that's a huge benefit, especially if it's a big unit that you wouldn't be able to handle.

8 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

The herald that adds an overgrowth token to the middle of nowhere will greatly help that. Limited by up to range5 of wherever you deploy him, but until his card goes away (which tells you what to do with the token) you could easily bridge the gap between two pieces of terrain to have an effective 6range area to benefit from overgrowth in.
Thats pretty dang wide. About all it doesnt do is benefit flankers since you cant put it on the other side of the board (typically)

I'm not positive the overgrowth becomes a dead token if he dies -- Overgrowth is a keyword, and the way the card explicitly states it continues to be treated as overgrowth when the card's exhausted could be read to indicate that overgrowth isn't dependent on that text. It'll need an FAQ, I think.

13 hours ago, stet2 said:

If the Latari get an artefact carrier as a champion then an Archer unit with Heartseeker shifting round terrain while being able to shoot through it could be useful.

That's ... terrifying...

2 hours ago, maxam said:

That's ... terrifying...

Be afraid bad guys, be very afraid!

As Vineheart01 says the 3x2 can be a tad expensive though if I were to field it I'd probably go with:

42 3x2 Latari Deepwood Archers

07 Fire Rune

04 Hunter's Guile

14 Artifact Bearer (Heartseeker) – provided they get an artifact bearer

02 Metered March (optional)

04 Support Amheylin Scion

73 Points (71 if you don't take Metered March)

Though if this seems too much you can go with a 2x2 in which case you have to drop the Heavy but could field the smaller unit for 57 points (55 if you don't field Metered March).

Anyone else loving that banner model?

I'm thinking about this set up a lot:

Deepwood Archers x2 [17]
--Equipment: Fire Rune [7]
--Training: Hunters Guile [4]
----------Total Unit Cost: 28

You have a WB shot, with threat 2, and a complete re-roll from Precise. Followed by a second shot with a R that is re-roll able, and has a threat of 2-4.

Easily killing several a turn, and its cheap at 28 points.

2 minutes ago, Hawktel said:

I'm thinking about this set up a lot:

Deepwood Archers x2 [17]
--Equipment: Fire Rune [7]
--Training: Hunters Guile [4]
----------Total Unit Cost: 28

You have a WB shot, with threat 2, and a complete re-roll from Precise. Followed by a second shot with a R that is re-roll able, and has a threat of 2-4.

Easily killing several a turn, and its cheap at 28 points.

Hunter's Guile will work on Fire Rune as well mate.

Even better. I wish I could get Hunters Guile on Scions.

I think hunters guile, wind rune, tactical starling would be a riot.

2 hours ago, Darthain said:

Anyone else loving that banner model?

Eh, more of love/hate ...

From a cold, removed POV, it's a great model and a great banner ...

BUT

As a Waiqar player, with a similar banner, albeit one that is windswept/curled around and therefore a general PITA to paint and display anything on, I hate it out of nothing but pure jealousy.

I would have rather had a non-banner like Uthuk than the one Waiqar ended up with. *sigh*

37 minutes ago, maxam said:

Eh, more of love/hate ...

From a cold, removed POV, it's a great model and a great banner ...

BUT

As a Waiqar player, with a similar banner, albeit one that is windswept/curled around and therefore a general PITA to paint and display anything on, I hate it out of nothing but pure jealousy.

I would have rather had a non-banner like Uthuk than the one Waiqar ended up with. *sigh*

That's funny because when I first saw the Waiqar banner, I was jealous, thinking the style was exactly what I expected for the Uthuk.