1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

I don't see it going either way. I see it only going to be able to use stuff you spent points on. So far I have never been wrong about which way a ruling like this goes. People argue that RAW says one thing, but the intent is pretty clear.

I certainly like this form of the argument. And, I agree with your interpretation of the rules. . .not being able to use a token as a card makes no sense at all and creates stupid "sub-rules" in a game with way too much errata.

1 hour ago, Force Majeure said:

I've only played one epic game (Team Epic) and my partner had the Huge ship. Are you required to have a Huge ship to play Epic?

Also, I have to add that it is A LOT of fun to see so many ships on the mats, especially when so many bench-warmers in 100/6 actually get to see some flight time & make a difference.

Epic needs two things from FFG:
1) A rule-set that's slightly different thank 100/6 to prevent broken combos as @heychadwick pointed out that is akin to Imperial Assault's Campaign system vs. its Skirmish system.
2) More support in official events. We all know Paul Heaver, Nand T. & Justin P. but can you say the same for their Epic counterparts? I couldn't tell you if there even is one because Epic is not given a quarter the amount of the attention.

The C-ROC got a number of people in my area interested in some Epic games. Now we just need an FFG carrot to dangle in front of them to keep the momentum going.

Well, that is open for interpretation. Some say yes. I say that any game played at 300 points is Epic. It uses a larger space and more ships (Huge ship or no) that creates an entirely different dynamic to the game.

The "epic" dynamic.

And I whole-heartedly agree that FFG needs to pay better attention to the greatest form of the game

Wasn't there something about epic points and requiring no more or less than a specific amount of epic points? I quit paying attention to official things as i just play what sounds fun.

7 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Wasn't there something about epic points and requiring no more or less than a specific amount of epic points? I quit paying attention to official things as i just play what sounds fun.

Epic points were used to determine the number of Huge ships fielded:

Corvette = 3

Transport = 2

You can have up to 5 at 300 points, thus 1 CR90 + 1 GR75, or 2 GR75s, but not 2 CR90s.

My understanding is that FFG has not even "officially" assigned Epic Points to the other ships, but the working "obvious" assumption is a "1 card" ship = 2, and a "2 card" ship = 3.

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

Wasn't there something about epic points and requiring no more or less than a specific amount of epic points? I quit paying attention to official things as i just play what sounds fun.

There is an official maximum amount of huge ships, but no official minimum.

Some leagues, like the one I am participating in this summer, mandate a minimum of 2 epic points so you have to bring at least one small epic ship.

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

• Whilst Homing Missiles give you a missile you can use without spending a lock ...

But they do need a TL to attack. Or am I missing something here?

14 minutes ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

But they do need a TL to attack. Or am I missing something here?

They do. The point is, you can acquire a target lock on an enemy, fire your Homing Missiles, not spend the lock, then fire your Assault Missiles, or something like that, since Huge ships can fire all their primary and secondary weapons in the same round.

7 minutes ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

They do. The point is, you can acquire a target lock on an enemy, fire your Homing Missiles, not spend the lock, then fire your Assault Missiles, or something like that, since Huge ships can fire all their primary and secondary weapons in the same round.

But why dont you need to spend the TL?

Ok, so I am totaly not sure if this is even remotely the right direction:

Raider-Class Corvette: Raider-Class Corvette (Fore) (50)
Ordenance Tubes (5)
Ordenance Experts (5)
Backup Shield Generator (3)
Homing Missiles (5)
Raider-Class Corvette: Raider-Class Corvette (Aft) (50)
Weapons Engineer (3)
· Impetuous (3)
Gunnery Team (4)
Engine Booster (3)
Homing Missiles (5)
Assault Missiles (5)
TIE Bomber: · Captain Jonus (22)
Swarm Tactics (2)
TIE Shuttle (0)
Systems officer (2)
TIE Defender: Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)
Ruthlessness (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)
TIE Defender: Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)
Ruthlessness (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)
-- TOTAL ------- 299p. --

5 minutes ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

But why dont you need to spend the TL?

Read Homing Missiles. Then go read Assault Missiles. They both say " Attack (Target Lock): " but only one of them tells you to discard your target lock.

4 minutes ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

Read Homing Missiles. Then go read Assault Missiles. They both say " Attack (Target Lock): " but only one of them tells you to discard your target lock.

OMG! Thank you. I never realized.

2 hours ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

But why dont you need to spend the TL?

2 hours ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

OMG! Thank you. I never realized.

Not spending the TL is one of the "improvements" for ordnance that was introduced later in the game. You still have to predesignate a target, but retain the TL to modify that damage roll, if needed.

28 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Not spending the TL is one of the "improvements" for ordnance that was introduced later in the game. You still have to predesignate a target, but retain the TL to modify that damage roll, if needed.

What do you mean, "later in the game"? Homing Missiles were introduced in Wave 2 with the Firespray and A-Wing.

21 minutes ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

What do you mean, "later in the game"? Homing Missiles were introduced in Wave 2 with the Firespray and A-Wing.

More and more ordnance were designed with Focus to fire and TLs that don't need to be discarded as the game went along, if I am not mistaken. So OK, it might not be a brand new idea, but it is being used more often as the default setting.

2 hours ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

Ok, so I am totaly not sure if this is even remotely the right direction:

Raider-Class Corvette: Raider-Class Corvette (Fore) (50)
Ordenance Tubes (5)
Ordenance Experts (5)
Backup Shield Generator (3)
Homing Missiles (5)
Raider-Class Corvette: Raider-Class Corvette (Aft) (50)
Weapons Engineer (3)
· Impetuous (3)
Gunnery Team (4)
Engine Booster (3)
Homing Missiles (5)
Assault Missiles (5)
TIE Bomber: · Captain Jonus (22)
Swarm Tactics (2)
TIE Shuttle (0)
Systems officer (2)
TIE Defender: Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)
Ruthlessness (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)
TIE Defender: Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)
Ruthlessness (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)
-- TOTAL ------- 299p. --

He has Alpha Squadron Pilots! ALPHAS!!! You already understand the beauty of Epic. I love Alpha Squadron Pilots...in case you couldn't tell.

I think this looks pretty good. I'd suggest dropping some upgrades on your Raider. You're sitting at 141, and I think 135 is a more comfortable range. You can use those 6 points to turn your Glaives into TIE/D's with Tractor Beams, allowing Ruthlessness to proc twice: once for the cannon shot, and once for the primary attack. You have a lot of upgrade cards on the Raider that require energy: Engine Booster, Backup Shield Generator, Ordnance Experts, Gunnery Team - not to mention the Raider's innate ability to spend two energy to use its primary weapon again. I'd pick two of those upgrades to drop in order to power up your TIE defenders.

So, I always see folks talking about raider builds. Who has a fun CR90 build for epics?

15 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

there's an 11-o'clock and 1-o'clock zone of utter carnage where all its arcs of fire overlap

I like to call that the "f**k you Cone".

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

So, I always see folks talking about raider builds. Who has a fun CR90 build for epics?

Optimized Generators, fill all the Hardpoints, and take some of the named Rebel-Only, Huge-ship-only crew. They can do some silly good stuff. Fly it like an old school battleship at a large angle to the main battle and unload with broadsides.

Some things about Epic:

I made a threat a while ago on what has become my favorite Epic ship build. You can read it here:

Someone else mentioned the importance of knowing how well your flankers will be able to position themselves, and I'd like to bring up a tactic I've come to think of as Despair Flanking. Generally, because of the way people deploy, the size of the space involved, and how humans distill and interpret information, Epic battles tend to devolve into 2-3 "theatres" of combat, with subgroups and squads engaging each other. The battle as a whole tends to be decided more often than not in one of these groups, as one side or the other gains the upper hand, eliminates a chunk of their opponents pieces, and is able to recommit the survivors to another theatre. Generally, I like to have a very deadly flanker be positioned fairly far away, in a spot where an opposing group of ships would have to cut right in front of your own squad in order to get to them (thus forcing them into combat with the interference squad instead). The idea is that the Despair Flanker will arrive at one theatre or another somewhere around the second or third round of firing, once damage has been traded and the opponent is busy worrying about how to maneuver with the ships they're immediately engaged with. Suddenly having Carnor Jax, Rexler Brath, or The Inquisitor arrive with a wingmate on your flank when you were dealing with a squadron of maneuverable TIEs can be an absolute nightmare, and this tactic has won me pretty much every single Epic game I've ever played.

As of now there really is only 2 things in Epic that work differently than in standard or even 150 point escalation.

1. 4 IG-2000
2. Huge Ships.

That's pretty much it there is nothing in standard that acts differently. There are more ships so high ps arc dodgers get pummeled. For huge ships there are some things to keep in mind.

1. huge ships do not have focus tokens so they have a harder time modifying their attack dice unlike other ships. If your huge ship build is focused on weapons you will want to compensate for it, rerolls such as Wookie Commandos or auto damage like Darth Vader <crew> will help you.
2. Huge ship movement is smaller than small ships. Each straight is 1 base shorter than it would be on a small ship, and it takes 3 banks (not 2) to turn 90 degrees.
3. Huge ships don't evade, they have reinforce but really it is recover and repair that is their defense.
4. Ramming is their greatest weapon but it is also cuts both ways.

Also, personally, I'm a fan of Ion Cannon Batteries. They hurt, and they're great for messing with formation flying, or ships that try to stay in R-1 of allies, and for crushing things.

20 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

1. huge ships do not have focus tokens so they have a harder time modifying their attack dice unlike other ships. If your huge ship build is focused on weapons you will want to compensate for it, rerolls such as Wookie Commandos or auto damage like Darth Vader <crew> will help you.

Wookie Commandos is Rebel only and double crew, and the only rebel huge ship that has weapons is the corvette, that doesn't have double crew upgrade icons in either of its section cards.

Since you need to equip upgrade cards to either of the sections (they don't work as a pool of upgrade icons, but are independent), I don't think you can equip Wookie Commandos on a corvette.

Edit: Nevermind, I just saw the Tantive IV title.

2 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

Wookie Commandos is Rebel only and double crew, and the only rebel huge ship that has weapons is the corvette, that doesn't have double crew upgrade icons in either of its section cards.

Since you need to equip upgrade cards to either of the sections (they don't work as a pool of upgrade icons, but are independent), I don't think you can equip Wookie Commandos on a corvette.

Edit: Nevermind, I just saw the Tantive IV title.

That and there needs to be some clarification if Wookie Commandos can be split between the two sections. However somehow I doubt FFG will address that in the next F.A.Q. as they have a record of ignoring Epic questions cough*EsegeTuketu*cough* . So lets look at the two way of ruling Wookie Commandos and how it would effect the game in Epic.

1. Double Crew cannot be split between sections (same for any other double icon upgrade then). Well you have to have the title then, and since Title is Fore section you have to equip Commandos on the fore section.
2. Double Crew can be split among the two section cards. Well then you don't need the title but then there is the question about what happens when the ship is crippled. I would say the safe ruling since it lost one of the two upgrade slots Wookie Commandos will be discarded when either section is flipped to the crippled side. However if you have the Tantive title then you would have to declare where Wookie Commandos is on.

So there you go, now of only FFG would tell us which one of these choices is their official ruling, but with many epic games you have to come out to an agreement with the other players first.

11 hours ago, SOLAR FLARE said:

Ok, so I am totaly not sure if this is even remotely the right direction:

Raider-Class Corvette: Raider-Class Corvette (Fore) (50)
Ordenance Tubes (5)
Ordenance Experts (5)
Backup Shield Generator (3)
Homing Missiles (5)
Raider-Class Corvette: Raider-Class Corvette (Aft) (50)
Weapons Engineer (3)
· Impetuous (3)
Gunnery Team (4)
Engine Booster (3)
Homing Missiles (5)
Assault Missiles (5)
TIE Bomber: · Captain Jonus (22)
Swarm Tactics (2)
TIE Shuttle (0)
Systems officer (2)
TIE Defender: Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)
Ruthlessness (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)
TIE Defender: Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)
Ruthlessness (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)
-- TOTAL ------- 299p. --

Thoughts:

• The Defenders need to be TIE/D (the double tap ones) - TIE/x7 give up their cannon slot.
• Alpha Squadron Pilots are nice - cheap, good blockers, and at agility 3 with autothrusters, take a disproportionate amount of killing at range 3 for a 20-point ship. If you're using them as a reserve and tail-end-charlies protecting the raider, they'll do well. If you want them as blockers, they'll also do well - blocking still works in epic (not for huge ships of course!) as big 2x3 or 2x4 formations of fighters can easily turn into train-wrecks of multiple action-denying collisions with a single well-placed block. Of course, the fact that a big proportion of your 'big punch' has splash damage (assault missiles/ruthlessness) means hull 3 blockers may have problems for reasons you can probably figure out.
• Jonus is Jonus. He's an amazing support ship for any missile-heavy force, and the only normal problem he has is the proportion of your squad points he eats up. In epic, he's an awesome unit. Plus, his swarm tactics PS6 means your raider and defenders can chop and change firing order as required, which may be useful given lots of "after an attack that hits" rules.
• The raider.....you might want to cut down on some of the gear.
• The rear homing missiles....frankly can afford to be concussion (saving a point), clusters (giving you a close-in weapon) or best of all, another assault (more lovely splash damage). You've got weapons engineer, so you're locking two separate targets. You should be planning on burning both of those target locks every turn, since you get 2 free target locks off jonus doing a green move (systems officer) plus another 2 when you kill something (impetuous). Theoretically you can spend 4 target locks a round and not suffer, and jonus' rerolls don't stack with a homing missile's target lock rerolls. The only hardpoint that should be a homing missile is the fore one - because if you lose the stern, you lose the target lock action plus impetuous plus it means someone's behind you and jonus is either already dead or vulnerable; homing missiles lets you keep shooting with the prow hardpoint at something for as long as you can.
• I fear you're planning on burning too much energy. Ordnance Experts (1) plus Gunnery Team (+1=2) plus double-tap primary (+2=4) plus engine booster (+1=5) is five energy eaten per turn, without allowing any for Recover actions to put lost shields back up. Given that you've not got any 'extra' energy from Admiral Ozzel, Engineering Teams, or Tibanna Gas, and the Impetuous title doesn't increase your energy stores, you're going to run out of energy fast - normally being independent of energy needs is the reason to go for ordnance tubes! More to the point, with Jonus passing rerolls, you probably shouldn't need both accuracy-improving teams. Swapping one for an engineering team balances out the energy economy far better, and makes it more likely you'll have a handful of energy tokens to spend once the poodoo hits the bantha.

Quote

More and more ordnance were designed with Focus to fire and TLs that don't need to be discarded as the game went along, if I am not mistaken. So OK, it might not be a brand new idea, but it is being used more often as the default setting.

To be honest, the first weapons made you spend a token, but gave you a dice modifier rule to make up for the token you didn't have. Newer ordnance still does the same, but often "don't have to spend it" is the special rule.

Proton Torpedoes - spend token, but one change-focus-to-crit modifier has (on average) the same effect

Concussion Missiles - spend token, but one change-blank-to-hit modifier has (on average) the same effect. Worse than the 'free crit' of concussion missiles but better if you can get a focus token or expertise as well, since they stack.

Homing Missiles - don't spend token. The extra point cost is for the "no evades' rule. Main downside is that the ability doesn't stack with rerolls from predator or jonus (but does stack with expertise or focus).

Advanced Proton Torpedoes - spend token. Only worth it if you can get target lock and focus at once, whilst getting to range 1 (which usually means a boost or barrel roll too). Bloody hard to use, nearly garuanteed 5 hits if you can.

Assault Missiles - spend token. Splash damage is supposed to make up for it being worse than a target-locked 3-dice primary attack. Which, barring clustered enemies (swarms or epic games) or free rerolls/expertise/tokens, it usually doesn't. The fact that most 'normal' games feature 3 enemy ships, tops, doesn't help.

Ion Pulse Missiles - don't spend token. Limited to massive ion hit and 1 damage.

Proton Rockets - don't spend token. Range 1 but only does 1 more attack dice than normal at range 1 unless you're an agility 3, primary 2 ship (TIE advanced of either kind or A-wing).

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers - don't spend token. Free target lock setup. Not bad to sprinkle en masse through a bomber squad, because focusing all of them and firing tracers until you get a hit leaves everyone else focus/target locked.

Advanced Homing Missiles - don't spend token. Cheap and sound scarier than they are. One shield-piercing critical damage is....usually not worth writing home about. Good when used en masse (Z-95s) or when paired with someone who can abuse the ability (Boba Fett, Maarek Stele). The extremely tight range restriction is the main irritation.

Plasma torpedoes - Spend token. Plasma shield burn is supposed to make up for it being worse than a target-locked 3-dice primary attack - and generally does, because they're cheap and a low agility target with plenty of shields is fairly common. Best used in only one or two, in support of other torpedoes, though.

Cruise Missiles - don't spend token. Awkward to use due to the need (ideally) to pull a speed 4 straight 'attack run', but cheap and devastating if you can get it right.

Ok, I did some tweaking:

Raider-Class Corvette: Raider-Class Corvette (Fore) (50)
Ordenance Tubes (5)
Ordenance Experts (5)
Tibanna Gas Supplies (4)
Homing Missiles (5)
Raider-Class Corvette: Raider-Class Corvette (Aft) (50)
Weapons Engineer (3)
· Impetuous (3)
Engineering Team (4)
Assault Missiles (5)
Cluster Missiles (4)
TIE Bomber: · Captain Jonus (22)
Swarm Tactics (2)
TIE Shuttle (0)
Systems officer (2)
TIE Defender: Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)
Ruthlessness (3)
Tractor Beam (1)
TIE/D (0)
TIE Defender: Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)
Ruthlessness (3)
Tractor Beam (1)
TIE/D (0)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE Interceptor: Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
Autothrusters (2)
-- TOTAL ------- 300p. --

Did I miss something?

5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

• Advanced Homing Missiles - don't spend token. Cheap and sound scarier than they are. One shield-piercing critical damage is....usually not worth writing home about. Good when used en masse (Z-95s) or when paired with someone who can abuse the ability (Boba Fett, Maarek Stele). The extremely tight range restriction is the main irritation.

I will say that a well placed critical hit vs. an epic ship can win you the game. Those epic crits are mostly horrible to deal with. Being able to hit one through shields is crazy good. Yes, it can be hard to get off, but great to put on an ordnance ship, such as K-wing, Punisher, or Bomber. Tracers or LRS can be used to get TO. Also not bad to risk on cheap ship like a Z-95.

Plasma are also better vs epic ships as they usually have lots of shields and it's good to bring them down fast.

Proton Torpedoes are also better in Epic due to the same crit inducing bonus. Best paired with others that have Plasma.

You did miss one often overlooked Torpedo that finds its home in Epic. ION TORPEDO. 5 pts, but you get to do full 4 red dice damage AND splash ion at everyone. Fantastic when dealing with enemy formations. Means you can run enemy over or even just put a bunch of Tie Fighters at R1 of enemy fighters. It can do damage to epic and steal some energy for next turn. Since I find handling the fighter screen to be one of the important elements to the game, this one torpedo can be a game changer. Not always needed on the epic ship, but usable on fighter escorts. Even X-wings have Torp slots. Harder to use with Imperials, but for Bombers and Punishers. Scum have Y-wings, but most other ships gave missiles. Maybe generic Starvipers would get used with their new discount?