So, I was asked in another thread to share some of my primarily Y-Wing themed upgrade cards I've made for our Heroes of the Aturi Cluster campaign. As such, they aren't necessarily particularly balanced for competitive play, but I'll hope that you'll enjoy them anyway. Also, feel free to critique them and suggest improvements (although I withhold the right to ignore any opinions as I please ).

First out is the S3B, based on the Y-Wing variant that shows up in the old Star Wars: Battlefront games. While sources aren't particularly clear on the exact specifications of it, the interpretation that I went with was that it had its medium laser cannons exchanged for heavier Particle Cannons and its Ion turret exchanged for a self-defense laser turret. Inspired by Outrider I took the opportunity to exchange the primary weapon for a Cannon slot, somewhat balanced out by the inability to take heavier turrets, such as the Ion or TLT. Realistically speaking, I don't think many would go for both TLT and a cannon, but still.

Next up is the Courier, an uncommon after market modification that like the TIE shuttle variant of the Bomber, exchanges the ship's secondary weapons for the ability to carry passengers. Could make the Y-Wing into a fun little support ship with the ability to combine both crew and astromech.

Requested by another person on the HotAC facebook group, this is a more dedicated munitions carrier like the TIE Bomber, inspired by the "Heavy Y-Wing" from the Star Wars Age of Empires clone Battlegrounds. It would probably not win any games in a tournament, but could be a fun thing to add to the table with the ability to take Long Range scanners.

The BTL-Y3 is a ship in the fan Star Wars Infinites (alt history) setting Father and Sons of the Sun by Shoguneagle on deviantart, from where the artwork is taken. The idea is a lighter ship, inspired by the original Y-Wing concept art, making for a ship that is a somewhat better dogfighter putting it somewhat in line with the X-Wing. It has a slightly worse dial and still has the lower attack, but tries to make up for it with stronger shields and the turret slot. Also, the artwork was too gorgeous not to use.

Another fighter variant of the Y-Wing, this one entirely made by myself before I did the Y3, which I probably perfer. The thought about this one is that by removing and replacing the torpedo launchers, space is made to improve the laser cannons and equip a missile launcher, more suited to shoot down small craft.

What if your Y-Wing still had its hull plating? When I posted this on facebook this was at the same time the most liked and the most controversial. Many thought that the loss of the k-turn was a death knell for the Y-wing when beset by TIEs, and that you "might as well just grab the hull upgrade". At the same time, many liked the idea of having the hull plating still on, and I'd prefer for it to actually have the effect of giving the plate-less a clear advantage in performance. As it was designed with HotAC in mind this modification would optionally be an autoinclude and not take a modification slot, but I guess that for normal play it would be reasonable to add "You can take up to two modifications." or somesuch.

As for why use this artwork instead of the BTL-B? Well, I liked this one still keeping to the original trilogy's "chunkiness", as well as keeping my option open for making a BTL-B card.

The BTL-A4 LP (Long Probe) was a recon variant of the BTL-A4 that saw some of the longest service in the New Republic fleet of all Y-Wing variants. Equipped with improved engines, hyperdrive and endurance it filled the remaining area in the former co-pilot seat with powerful scanners and sensors. While the ship was supposed to be replaced by the T-65BR "Snoopscoot", it only did so partially, as the older A4LP still performed admirably.

As for the card itself, I like it. The concept is simple, to give the Y-Wing access to some of those juicy systems upgrades, but does give up the modification slot for it. Additionally I like that it forces the player to use the BTL-A4 title. While not a huge penalty, it is a soft limit, preventing things like 360 TLT with Fire Control System, as well as combining it with the other titles I've made such as the S3B.

Bombers are getting the Bomblet generator. Missiles are getting the Unguided Rockets, why shouldn't torpedoes have something like it? Energy Torpedoes are the kind of torpedoes equipped on the Trade Federation Vulture Droids. Functionally they are similar to Plasma torpedoes, but do not have the guiding shell. Instead a generator is installed in the torpedo tube that like the laser cannons draws from the power of the ship to recharge. The torpedoes are dumbfire and theoretically infinite (as long as the ship has fuel), but takes time between salvoes.

Well, as I just mentioned, almost all torpedoes are homing, but some are more homing than others. This one is effectively a proton torpedo, but with a reduced warhead, replaced by a more intricate guiding system. Now that I look at it, it might very well warrant an extra point or an effect like removing a crit to make it more in line with the Proton Torpedo, but as a concept I like it.

The double torp upgrade (and any that might get officially released) needs a "Rebel (and Imperial?) only" added.

No ******* way Jumpmasters should ever get unlimited munitions.

But all the Y-Wing stuff is nice.

Really cool. Do you have any Rebel pilot ideas as well? I think that's a real weakness with the Y-Wing.

14 minutes ago, Axelius said:

First out is the S3B, based on the Y-Wing variant that shows up in the old Star Wars: Battlefront games. While sources aren't particularly clear on the exact specifications of it, the interpretation that I went with was that it had its medium laser cannons exchanged for heavier Particle Cannons and its Ion turret exchanged for a self-defense laser turret. Inspired by Outrider I took the opportunity to exchange the primary weapon for a Cannon slot, somewhat balanced out by the inability to take heavier turrets, such as the Ion or TLT. Realistically speaking, I don't think many would go for both TLT and a cannon, but still.

So here you are paying the following costs:

Opportunity: You are not able to equip better titles
Squadpoint: You pay an extra point for this
Restriction: You lose the ability to use your primary weapons
Restriction #2: You cannot equip the best turret in the game

For the benefit of 1 cannon upgrade.... I fail to see how this is worth it.

18 minutes ago, Axelius said:

Next up is the Courier, an uncommon after market modification that like the TIE shuttle variant of the Bomber, exchanges the ship's secondary weapons for the ability to carry passengers. Could make the Y-Wing into a fun little support ship with the ability to combine both crew and astromech.

I guess this is okay, I'd still make it free, you lose a lot of value by losing the turret slot, and both scum and rebels have access GREAT crew options for cheap. Don't know what would be the correct pricing.

@Axelius, I appreciate your work. It is fun that you base your cards on fluff, because people would enjoy to use these.

Have you and your playgroup made any other upgrades for other classic ships such TIE Fighters and Rebel Alliance X-wings?

6 hours ago, Stevey86 said:

The double torp upgrade (and any that might get officially released) needs a "Rebel (and Imperial?) only" added.

No ******* way Jumpmasters should ever get unlimited munitions.

Hmm, I get your point, but that would lock it off from Scum Y's as well, which isn't optimal. I'm already thinking of making the upgrade worse, primarily by having the focus be spent, give it a minor die modification and like the Unguided Rockets limit other die modifiers.

That said, it really is a problem with the Jumpmaster and not the card itself, and since we're already in homebrew territory... well, eh.

6 hours ago, Sasajak said:

Really cool. Do you have any Rebel pilot ideas as well? I think that's a real weakness with the Y-Wing.

I agree, in my opinion the big problem with the Y in normal play is the lack of EPTs, which isn't a problem in HotAC since you gain those as you play. Since the stuff I've made have primarily been for this co-op campaign mode pilots weren't as big of a priority, although I do know a few names that I would like to see in a Y-Wing, among them Norra Wexley and Evaan Verlaine. Also Pilot abilities are IMO a bit harder to put values on, which is one reason I've stayed away from it.

6 hours ago, RufusDaMan said:

So here you are paying the following costs:

Opportunity: You are not able to equip better titles
Squadpoint: You pay an extra point for this
Restriction: You lose the ability to use your primary weapons
Restriction #2: You cannot equip the best turret in the game

For the benefit of 1 cannon upgrade.... I fail to see how this is worth it.

I guess this is okay, I'd still make it free, you lose a lot of value by losing the turret slot, and both scum and rebels have access GREAT crew options for cheap. Don't know what would be the correct pricing.

You're probably right about the cost, and it might be fair to bump both of them down to 0. For the Courier I was trying to compare it to the Bomber losing more effective slots with the TIE Shuttle, but it's probably true that the turret hurts more. On the other hand you're still able to combo it with an astromech, which can be pretty powerful.

As for the S3B I was sort of working backwards from the Outrider which has a rather hefty price, although it is fair to say that it has a cost for a different purpose, but there you still lose a turret primary for it. My original version had the price at 3 and instead of removing the primary attack, it removed the turret slot and made it possible to use the primary out of arc at range 1-2, effectively giving it a Dorsal. However, I wasn't happy with that, so I went with this instead. As for the cannon slot I think you're underestimating it, since except for the Scyk and the YT-2400 all ships with Cannon slots have 3 primary attack, while the Y has 2. This means that a weapon such as the Mangler cannon is a straight up upgrade on all ranges and that the HLC could be a viable option. Furthermore you can still use the cheaper turrets to fill in the blind spot of the HLC. I think an S3B with R3-A2 and Flechette cannon could be a viable alternative to the variant with A4 and TLT, while keeping the option of out-of arc firing.

5 hours ago, AwesomeJedi said:

@Axelius, I appreciate your work. It is fun that you base your cards on fluff, because people would enjoy to use these.

Have you and your playgroup made any other upgrades for other classic ships such TIE Fighters and Rebel Alliance X-wings?

Thanks, that's what makes me want to do them. I've also really been wanting to make a BTL-B card, but then the question comes up, what is really different about it and the normal Y-Wing. As well as the question, is the "normal" Y-Wing the S3 or... just some generic variant? And then it just a big nerd-cascade from there...

As for other cards, we haven't really done any other ships. I made these as a reaction to finding tons of variant X-Wings and A-Wings, as well as some B-Wings and Headhunters among the custom cards other people had done for their HotAC campaigns, but there was little love for the Y-Wing (although I did see a nice forward/aft deflectors card and an S3 variant that I kinda liked, so that's why I didn't really do them).

23 minutes ago, Axelius said:

Thanks, that's what makes me want to do them. I've also really been wanting to make a BTL-B card, but then the question comes up, what is really different about it and the normal Y-Wing. As well as the question, is the "normal" Y-Wing the S3 or... just some generic variant? And then it just a big nerd-cascade from there...

As for other cards, we haven't really done any other ships. I made these as a reaction to finding tons of variant X-Wings and A-Wings, as well as some B-Wings and Headhunters among the custom cards other people had done for their HotAC campaigns, but there was little love for the Y-Wing (although I did see a nice forward/aft deflectors card and an S3 variant that I kinda liked, so that's why I didn't really do them).

"Normal" Rebel Y-wing Model http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BTL-A4_Y-wing_starfighter

In the Canon, there is no BTL-B Y-wing, it was just an early model of the BTL-A4, which sometimes were modified to carry a passenger by the Rebellion (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Y_4). However, the rest of the cards you habe already made are Legends, so I would just do whatever you want to do.

I'm not one of those people who fuss about Canon and Legends material. "It's true. All of it."

4 minutes ago, AwesomeJedi said:

"Normal" Rebel Y-wing Model http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BTL-A4_Y-wing_starfighter

In the Canon, there is no BTL-B Y-wing, it was just an early model of the BTL-A4, which sometimes were modified to carry a passenger by the Rebellion (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Y_4). However, the rest of the cards you habe already made are Legends, so I would just do whatever you want to do.

I'm not one of those people who fuss about Canon and Legends material. "It's true. All of it."

Well, X-Wing minis a firm both Legends and Canon game anyway, with ships and characters from both. As for the concept of "no BTL-B", my stance on the issue is that until Canon says anything that contradicts it, such as in Legends the sole Y-Wing survivor of Yavin was Keyan Farlander, in Canon it is Evaan Verlaine. So far Canon hasn't said that the CW Y-Wings aren't BTL-B, so that's what I go with. The only thing that is confirmed is that the A4 is a variant and that it lacks the gunner position of the earlier variants, which fits more or less with the previous narrative. We know that there are at least two other variants, the one used in the Clone Wars (presumed BTL-B) as well as the ones "liberated" in Star Wars Rebels that has the cockpit of the earlier variant, but the turret of the later ones (my headcanon is that this is the BTL-S1 which was what the BTL-B once was wrongly referenced as). In X-Wing this is reinforced by having the A4 be locked in the front position, thus indicating that the stock model is some other variant, most likely the S3 as that fits with Legends specs.

Told you 'bout the nerd-cascade...

Thanks for your work. Inspiring

5 minutes ago, Axelius said:

Well, X-Wing minis a firm both Legends and Canon game anyway, with ships and characters from both. As for the concept of "no BTL-B", my stance on the issue is that until Canon says anything that contradicts it, such as in Legends the sole Y-Wing survivor of Yavin was Keyan Farlander, in Canon it is Evaan Verlaine. So far Canon hasn't said that the CW Y-Wings aren't BTL-B, so that's what I go with. The only thing that is confirmed is that the A4 is a variant and that it lacks the gunner position of the earlier variants, which fits more or less with the previous narrative. We know that there are at least two other variants, the one used in the Clone Wars (presumed BTL-B) as well as the ones "liberated" in Star Wars Rebels that has the cockpit of the earlier variant, but the turret of the later ones (my headcanon is that this is the BTL-S1 which was what the BTL-B once was wrongly referenced as). In X-Wing this is reinforced by having the A4 be locked in the front position, thus indicating that the stock model is some other variant, most likely the S3 as that fits with Legends specs.

Told you 'bout the nerd-cascade...

Yep. There isn't any reference of BTL-B Y-wings, but no one said they never existed...

10 hours ago, Axelius said:

So, I was asked in another thread to share some of my primarily Y-Wing themed upgrade cards I've made for our Heroes of the Aturi Cluster campaign. As such, they aren't necessarily particularly balanced for competitive play, but I'll hope that you'll enjoy them anyway. Also, feel free to critique them and suggest improvements (although I withhold the right to ignore any opinions as I please ).

First out is the S3B, based on the Y-Wing variant that shows up in the old Star Wars: Battlefront games. While sources aren't particularly clear on the exact specifications of it, the interpretation that I went with was that it had its medium laser cannons exchanged for heavier Particle Cannons and its Ion turret exchanged for a self-defense laser turret. Inspired by Outrider I took the opportunity to exchange the primary weapon for a Cannon slot, somewhat balanced out by the inability to take heavier turrets, such as the Ion or TLT. Realistically speaking, I don't think many would go for both TLT and a cannon, but still.

Instead of a title, why not just make it a <turret> upgrade instead. Remove the turret all together also it won't work with BTL-A4 title since it is not a <turret> secondary weapon.

11 hours ago, Axelius said:

I haven't looked too hard at these, but:

BTL-Y3 should in no way cost 3 points. 2 Hull is worth more than 1 Agility on the Y-Wing, nevermind the loss of a slot.

Impact Hull Plating should definitely cost more than 0 points. TLT Y-Wing spam does NOT need +4 Hull!

Energy Torpedo Launchers: that is a Star Trek ship...

4 hours ago, Axelius said:

Hmm, I get your point, but that would lock it off from Scum Y's as well...

"Small ship only" solves the problem.

1 hour ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

"Small ship only" solves the problem.

I don't like limiting a card like that for no reason other than locking it off from one specific ship, especially when I find it hard to rationalise from a thematic point of view.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

Instead of a title, why not just make it a <turret> upgrade instead. Remove the turret all together also it won't work with BTL-A4 title since it is not a <turret> secondary weapon.

Because I don't want to remove the turret, just limit it. I also want to stay within the concept that ship variants are titles or modifications while armament variants are slot upgrades. As the main concept of the S3B is the replacement of the main armament with heavier cannons, that's a variant to me, and as such a title.

1 hour ago, ObiWonka said:

BTL-Y3 should in no way cost 3 points. 2 Hull is worth more than 1 Agility on the Y-Wing, nevermind the loss of a slot.

Probably true, took the precaution to rather overprice, than underprice and thought it brought it roughly equal to the X-Wing, problem is ofc that the X-Wing isn't worth its points.

1 hour ago, ObiWonka said:

Impact Hull Plating should definitely cost more than 0 points. TLT Y-Wing spam does NOT need +4 Hull!

While that is probably true, again, I dislike having to design around one specific card, especially when it otherwise seems fair. If I had to take a competitive TLT list into account the card is impossible to price. At 1 it can still be included and the loss of Unhinged/R2 isn't too big of a deal. At 2 it is only one point cheaper than a normal hull upgrade, but with a hefty downside. As the card is originally intended for Co-op campaign play (in which I as the primary Y-Wing player has denounced the TLT) I don't feel like trying to get entangled in that mess. Especially when we must consider that the Y-Wing doesn't really see any use outside of being a cheap TLT carrier.

1 hour ago, ObiWonka said:

Energy Torpedo Launchers: that is a Star Trek ship...

Shhhhh!

3 hours ago, ObiWonka said:

...

Energy Torpedo Launchers: that is a Star Trek ship...

1 hour ago, Axelius said:

...

Shhhhh!

We got Armada to make Star Trek mods

2 hours ago, Axelius said:

I don't like limiting a card like that for no reason other than locking it off from one specific ship, especially when I find it hard to rationalise from a thematic point of view.

Well, short of 'No Jumpmasters'; without limiting it, you would be giving an already overpowered build a even bigger leg up in the form of unlimited munitions. And no one wants that.

What might be nice for Rebel Y-wings is a torpedo analogue to cluster missiles - something which attacks over the range 1-2 bracket rather than the range 2-3 bracket.

Lacking the option of Long Range Scanners (for outside range 3 locks) or elite upgrades (for deadeye), rebel Y-wings have to get target locks the 'old fashioned way', with a target lock action.

This is a problem, because you often get a situation where you move, cannot lock (because a higher PS ship is outside range 3), then your opponent moves, locks, attacks, then next turn you move and lock, and they move and end up at range 1, and attack again - meaning you've taken 2 turns of enemy fire and still not got your torpedoes launched.

It would also be nice to see an 'anti-large-ship' ordnance - there have been torpedoes which punish small, action-dependent ships (flechette), torpedoes which punish low agility swarms (ion torpedoes), and torpedoes which punish heavily shielded ships (plasma) but there has yet to be anything designed for big ships (I guess the 40%-chance-of-a-critical proton torpedoes should qualify, but really don't in practice).

Combining the two in a "heavy torpedoes" card - range 1-2, target lock, some sort of accuracy/damage bonus against large ships (or ships with hull greater than a given value, if you want them to affect really-shoulda-been-big ships, or don't want to specifically namecheck large base ships) might be a nice tool for the rebel Y-wing as a torp bomber rather than turret boat.

14 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

What might be nice for Rebel Y-wings is a torpedo analogue to cluster missiles - something which attacks over the range 1-2 bracket rather than the range 2-3 bracket.

Lacking the option of Long Range Scanners (for outside range 3 locks) or elite upgrades (for deadeye), rebel Y-wings have to get target locks the 'old fashioned way', with a target lock action.

This is a problem, because you often get a situation where you move, cannot lock (because a higher PS ship is outside range 3), then your opponent moves, locks, attacks, then next turn you move and lock, and they move and end up at range 1, and attack again - meaning you've taken 2 turns of enemy fire and still not got your torpedoes launched.

It would also be nice to see an 'anti-large-ship' ordnance - there have been torpedoes which punish small, action-dependent ships (flechette), torpedoes which punish low agility swarms (ion torpedoes), and torpedoes which punish heavily shielded ships (plasma) but there has yet to be anything designed for big ships (I guess the 40%-chance-of-a-critical proton torpedoes should qualify, but really don't in practice).

Combining the two in a "heavy torpedoes" card - range 1-2, target lock, some sort of accuracy/damage bonus against large ships (or ships with hull greater than a given value, if you want them to affect really-shoulda-been-big ships, or don't want to specifically namecheck large base ships) might be a nice tool for the rebel Y-wing as a torp bomber rather than turret boat.

Well, technically there is also the Advanced Proton Torpedo, but that has the downside of needing an EPT (which the Y lacks) or a support ship to activate.

What I'm starting to think of is something along the lines of the Advanced Homing Missiles, a torpedo with three dice that causes one faceup damage card (or two if large). Could also be a good candidate for use with munitions failsafe and chips.

And being range 1 only. I was meaning range 1-2, which is a lot easier for a ship without boost or barrel roll.

Just bumping my own post to update that the BTL-S3 became recanonised in the latest Poe Dameron comic.