I've just bought my first pack and am already planning on picking up a second. For you guys who have played them, what do you think of them? Any particular builds you guys like so far? How many are you running?

I have the same questions. I only have one pack so far and am just starting to really think about numbers and fleet building. I saw someone run four in a seven activation list the other day and it looked pretty imposing to me. They seem to have a lot of potential uses: Cheap lifeboat, ordnance carriers, Hyperspace Assault backstabber. Task Force Antilles is really interesting to me (it feels like Biggs for ships) but doesn't seem to shine unless you have a lot of HHs on the table. I think I'll end up with at least four of them, maybe six. Not eight, no way...

I might get eight.

The provide a different kind of feel from the regular Corvette. Although the base models are a touch cheaper, by the time you put upgrades on them, you're just under the basic Corvette prices. To me, that means that if you have a list where you previously used regularly Corvettes, it is entirely possible that the HH can be substituted.

The TF titles really want more than the two that come in a single pack. I'm not sure where the right number will fall, but I'd imagine 3-4. I played TF-O for three games, and you're able to use it to correct damage on your CFed/External Rack shot, and to do so at a price point far cheaper than taking OE. There's some debate floating around on whether they messed up in the article in describing TF-A as stackable, but from the play experience of others, that also seems to be a good card. Corvettes were always susceptible to squadrons. The HH is no different, but spreading out the damage of multiple squadron attacks really gives them an extra layer of squadron protection.

In comparing with the other Corvettes, the five hull and contain make it about as survivable as the regular Corvette from the side/rear, and probably more survivable from the front. I know definitely felt that extra hull point as a real thing of value on the game board. This is good because with a max speed of 3, you start your ramming run from inside the opponent's firing range. The ideal for the Torpedo variant is to be able to ram on that speed-3 run, and then activate at the start of the next turn to deliver your payload. Last/first will do that. I used Rieekan from second player.

1 hour ago, Vergilius said:

The provide a different kind of feel from the regular Corvette. Although the base models are a touch cheaper, by the time you put upgrades on them, you're just under the basic Corvette prices. To me, that means that if you have a list where you previously used regularly Corvettes, it is entirely possible that the HH can be substituted.

The TF titles really want more than the two that come in a single pack. I'm not sure where the right number will fall, but I'd imagine 3-4. I played TF-O for three games, and you're able to use it to correct damage on your CFed/External Rack shot, and to do so at a price point far cheaper than taking OE. There's some debate floating around on whether they messed up in the article in describing TF-A as stackable, but from the play experience of others, that also seems to be a good card. Corvettes were always susceptible to squadrons. The HH is no different, but spreading out the damage of multiple squadron attacks really gives them an extra layer of squadron protection.

In comparing with the other Corvettes, the five hull and contain make it about as survivable as the regular Corvette from the side/rear, and probably more survivable from the front. I know definitely felt that extra hull point as a real thing of value on the game board. This is good because with a max speed of 3, you start your ramming run from inside the opponent's firing range. The ideal for the Torpedo variant is to be able to ram on that speed-3 run, and then activate at the start of the next turn to deliver your payload. Last/first will do that. I used Rieekan from second player.

They also handle WAY differently than a CR90. While you're still trying to stay at long initially, CR90s want to be on the outskirts zooming around you, while HH want to be up front. But the speed 3 is VASTLY different, especially with a nav command. HH going 2 clicks-1 click- 0 leads to hard left or right inside turns, which is a huge different spot from where your opponent thought you would be.

I'm with you on the 3-4 plan, and i WEIRDLY like both types of them, especially with the titles. I tend towards 2 torpedos with 1 Scout, and the scout is the backup title/finisher that's going to ram whatever i need to death. Also a great place to dump boarding troopers in the back there.

Good thoughts, @geek19 .

I was just thinking of a trailing scout earlier today. There's definitely a place for both of them, probably in the same list.

Well, they are a cheap activation that will do something.....

They hit like a wet noodle otherwise.

Played 4 with TFA and some other junk in our store championship yesterday. They are definitely fun little ships to fly and pack a hell of a punch with External Racks.

As someone who was initially bummed about the prospect of TFA not stacking, I can say thats no longer the case for me now. TFA is fine shifting only one damage. With a Biggs tarpit and 4 HHs with TFA, my final opponent was getting extremely salty about how ridiculously difficult it was to even kill one hammerhead. They are at least 2-3 damage points tankier than a CR90 in practice, though it's hard to account the CR90s superior speed and maneuverability into that (I was a corvette spammer before this, so I have some experience there as well).

I paired Cracken with the HHs on Thursdays and felt he didnt work well because speed 3 was hard to maintain and keep arcs with the HH. Yesterday I did Mothma, and while shes my bae, she might not be for the HH either. It felt like the accuracy was always there and therefore the evade never was.

Madine and Dodonna are next up on my list to try.

For reference, my HHs were Torps kitted with OE, ER, and TFA. All together, 46 points, 5 points cheaper than a TRC90.

Also for reference, 5-6, 6-5, 6-5. I made some mistakes, but mostly I would just say my fleet was not overly effective. The last game would have definitely been an 8 or 9 to me, but my opponent slow played in his frustration and we only made it to round 4 before clock. The problem with swarms is they require all 6 rounds usually.

Yeah, I noticed with a lot of small ships and all those arcs and different movement options it really slows down play.

I've found max squadron players to be much slower than ship spammers, but not to derail the topic.

I tested out TFO in two games before a Store Champs and was a bit underwhelmed. It might be that upgrade just doesn't stack well with the torp boat with ER. I really missed ordnance experts.

Next on my docket is the torp variant with TFA. I do think the model is beautiful and the ship is a ton of fun.

The winner of our store champs yesterday had two Hammerheads with TFO (I think), an MC80 pickle, two flotillas, and relatively few fighters (3 x VCX-100 and 3x HWK-290 I think). I did not play him so I don't know the specifics or how it worked out. He's certainly the top player in the region, so hard to say how much skill might compensate for any weaknesses in design.

None of the three lists I faced had new ships, but some had new cards (Ordnance racks on MC30s) that were pretty brutal.

I played at the same SC as @Hawkstrike and I played against the winner in the last round. He had a well designed list that wants to be second player. Specifically in my game he used his HH as flankers as I tried to go after his Doom Pickle. His setup was just about perfect in getting the HHs into position on my TRC90s but his dice failed him even with the Organa rerolls (which unfortunately happened to him all day).

I think if you can position them correctly to flank or trail, depending on your fleet, they can be a force. If you take 2, TFO is the way to go. Anymore than 2 and you probably want to invest in TFA. If you're looking for a filler in a Dodonna fleet, try out 1 with Garels Honor.

One of our local players was talking about using two, one with Garel's Honor and one with boarding engineers in a Dodonna list. Sounds effective.

1 minute ago, Caldias said:

One of our local players was talking about using two, one with Garel's Honor and one with boarding engineers in a Dodonna list. Sounds effective.

The nightmare scenario for me is having the same crippling "ruin your life then flip this card over" crits hit you multiple times due to Dodonna and the Boarding Engineers. Comms Noise, Projector Misaligned, Structural Damage, etc. Could be pretty nasty.

My first run with them wasn't great, but that's more on me than the ships I think.

First match, I had them lined up for a round 4-6 finishing role on an Ackbar guppy gunline I got in front of, but Admo and Dodonna did so much heavy lifting as the point ship, that my opponent conceded before I could see what they'd do (seriously, I drew 4 back to back Structurals and took out 1, and was a whisker away from taking out Ackbar with Admo alone, and received no significant damage in return)

Things were lined up well though, and I think they would've easily finished off the other guppy and Ackbar as I had already won the squad game, so that would be some extra damage coming from there also.

Second match, I tried to flank and instead got squeezed in the corner. Speed three on the HH hurts a bit, especially when you're used to Speed 4 CR90s.

They're fragile, and holy crap VSD2's with DispCap and Vader are just stupid. I got two HH caught in the front arc and with Gunnery Teams, my opponent almost one shot them both (4 damage cards each).

Anyway, that was my fault, as I miscalculated my flanking run just a bit.

As usual, they're going to take some time to figure out. I think they'll have a place in lists and want to keep testing them.

A concurrent game where a player was running them got them on the nose of an MC80, and between ramming, ER, and boarding engineers it folded remarkably fast. They can definitely roll as a pack very well.

So TFA doesn't split damage to multiple ships? That's kinda lame?

2 hours ago, Snipafist said:

The nightmare scenario for me is having the same crippling "ruin your life then flip this card over" crits hit you multiple times due to Dodonna and the Boarding Engineers. Comms Noise, Projector Misaligned, Structural Damage, etc. Could be pretty nasty.

I've seen that happen once. It was soul crushing to watch.

Wait. How does boarding engineers work with dodonna?

3 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

Wait. How does boarding engineers work with dodonna?

Exactly the same way as everyone else.

Dodonna only triggers when cards are drawn face up . In the case of Boarding Engineers, they are being turned , not drawn.

We had 2 games at the Friday night FLGS session. I ran a Shields to Maximum Command Pelta with 4 TFA/External Racks/Ordinance Experts Torpedo Frigates. I had a Biggs ball with Tycho and Ten.

You get the exact same feeling playing TFA as Biggs. You feel invincible for 2 turns of combat and then reality comes crashing down as you remember you were only passing damage around and not negating it.

5 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Exactly the same way as everyone else.

Dodonna only triggers when cards are drawn face up . In the case of Boarding Engineers, they are being turned , not drawn.

That's what I thought. I don't know what all the fuss is about then

2 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

That's what I thought. I don't know what all the fuss is about then

Do a Regular Crit.

Use Dodonna to pick something that is "Do a bunch of stuff, then turn this card over."
That is now a face-down card.

Do Boarding Engineers

Since you know thats one of the face down cards, flip it face up.

It could mean resolving a single Structural Damage twice to get 4 Damage.

It works especially when you Last/First with a Hammerhead with Garel's Honour and Boarding Engineers...

Last Activation, Move, Ram, Face-up a Card that flips down... (If you're lucky to draw it in the 4)

and then first activate with Boardings and flip both of those cards.

But th eonly Advantage you're getting from Dodonna is - essentially - getting 4x the Chances of getting a Critical Card that is "Do it and turn it face down", rather than just, say, Depowered Armament

1 minute ago, Sybreed said:

That's what I thought. I don't know what all the fuss is about then

I think what they're implying is using dodanna to fish for Crits that flip face down after they resolve (like structiral damage) and then flipping it back over to resolve again with boarding engineers

3 hours ago, TheToad said:

So TFA doesn't split damage to multiple ships? That's kinda lame?

This was my first reaction as well, but it's really still quite valuable, almost to the point where I think it would be overpowered if it stacked from multiple ships. It's especially adds much needed protection against squadrons. Even against ships, it's significant enough to matter. Compare it's tankiness vs the Corvette in similar situations. With TFA, the Hammerhead has 2 extra points of damage protection than the corvette for a couple shots, especially in situations where that Redirect is locked down (which almost always happens).

Damage needed to kill at full health targeting x hull zone. Accuracy is assumed to hit redirect.

Corvette:

Front no Acc - 8 damage

Side no Acc - 8 damage

Rear no Acc - 7 damage

Front w/Acc - 6 damage

Side w/Acc - 6 damage

Rear w/Acc - 5 damage

Hammerhead w/TFA:

Front no Acc - 9 damage

Side no Acc - 9 damage

Rear no Acc - 8 damage

Front w/Acc - 8 damage

Side w/Acc - 7 damage

Rear w/Acc - 7 damage

Even without TFA, there is literally no shot of comparison that the Hammerhead can't tank equal or better than a Corvette, except possibly long range where the Corvettes two evades really shine.

These numbers also don't count for other ways the Corvette is defensive, such as by adding reinforced blast doors which the Hammerhead cannot take, or, more importantly imo, the Corvettes superior speed and maneuverability, but they do highlight that the Hammerhead is not as fragile as it appears. It's definitely a brawler while the Corvette very much wants to come around on the sides and dodge arcs. The hammerhead seems like it wants to charge straight up the middle, take those shots from the front arc of that Vic or ISD, and beg it to come in closer.

In summary, a bit obvious perhaps, the Hammerhead is built to take damage, the corvette is built to dodge damage. For this reason, I'm not overly certain Cracken or Mothma make great commanders for it. I may give Cracken another go at it, but it's difficult to keep those guys at speed 3. Maybe it'll be better on collision courses...

Edit: As a swarm player, I think the Hammerhead will definitely shine better than the Corvette in battles against the MC80, where dodging two giant side arcs is considerably harder than making an ISD spin in circles.

Yeah I hadn't thought of that. Thx guys

I've been considering replacing 2 of the CR90s in my Madine/Liberty fleet with TFA Hammerheads. They're cheaper which allows a larger bid, and I think they may like Madine to give them some extra yaw at speed 3.