Hello everyone,

We have 3 players in edge of the empire, an online game.

We are trying to find ways to get credits.

In a recent game, we dropped in Naar Shada, and we took the first job available: Bringing a shipment for a merchant from an unsafe location in the city.

We went there with a Speeder provided by the merchant.

The location being a bad neighborhood, we decided to stay together to prevent being molested if one stayed separate from the other.

As one could guess, when we took the shipment, came back to our speeder, the speeder wasn't there. We interrogated a drug dealer, who was assasinated before our eyes because we were about to get information on the speeder thief.

2 players chased the assassin and we stunned it. (It was a droid)

1 player stayed near the crate of the shipment to guard it, and the GM sent 3 'rivals' to make the player (a female caracter) come with them of being hurt. Taking the shipment at the same time. Now the battle is on, and we don't kow yet what will happen. 2 other players are too far away to intervene.

So my questions are:

1) What are efficient ways to protect Speeders/Ships/Homes from being invaved/stolen?

2) Anyone knows where in the books are tracer/beacon devices to track something? Like in star wars movies. Are they efficient?

3) Do Gms often make player fear for the safety of your gear/properties? We only played D&D and pathfinder, and the only thiefs where in our team if there was any. So I'm new to having to worry about losing stuff while the players are still under 3k credits/equipement average. (Except a ship 1 player have an obligation about) (in 4rth session, About 70 Xp so far)

Thanks!

Things can get stolen from time to time, but this seems to me like the GM is being a jerk. Two-bit carjackers are suddenly employing assassins to gun down drug dealers? Baloney.

It sounds to me like the GM thinks his job is to antagonize the players instead of challenge them. "They picked up the shipment too easily, I better cut off their getaway!" Yeah, you could do that, or you could have a speeder chase through the city, which is much cooler.

"Hey, guys! Our speeder is gone! We need to find it!" "Bang! Sorry, you'll never find it now. Also if you try, I'm going to send 3 to 1 odds against the one person guarding the crate full of beanie babies."

Lame.

Well, it really depends on the story at hand. Hitchcock had things get stolen from his leads all the time, and that usually kicked off a grand adventure through Marrakesh and a fistfight on the top of the Eiffel Tower. So yeah, a kidnapping, a theft, a MacGuffin landing in your laps ("That crate you're guarding? Yeah, it's really got a Grand Moff's daughter in it and now every bounty hunter in the quadrant is coming after you") is a pretty time honored tradition and no amount of locking The Thing behind a 6 inch steel vault door will stop the theft. I would just accept it and roll with it.

Now that said, if it happens all the time for no good reason ("Hah! You guys forgot to roll for your perception as you got off the ship and someone stole it while you were in customs! Sucks to be you!") then the GM is being a jerk. Talk to him and explain to him that's not the story you're looking to tell.

I think that part of the problem is that the EotE book encourages GMs to take things away (that "keeping the players hungry" sidebar). It's not only problematic in itself (especially since obligation didn't really get fleshed out as an alternative currency), but GMs who come from more adversarial systems are liable to take that sidebar as a license to make the PCs' lives miserable.

I take things from my players all the time, sometimes I also take from thier characters

I've definitely been in and GM'd games with a "Things keep getting worse" theme. The car was stolen, the package was stolen, the witness was killed, can we please catch a break." Those types of games can be a lot of fun, especially when the characters finally triumph over adversity (hopefully).

Now if every game is like this, and you really get the feel over multiple games that the GM is out to get you, or is using "it's gone" as a crutch, that could be a problem.

1) Leave a guard and make sure they can kill the F@#$ out of people.

2) Don't know the book off the top of my head but they exist.

3) I have my PCs fear for the air they breathe, otherwise the GM isn't challenging PCs imo.

So the party is stranded in a bad part of the city standing over the body of a murdered drug dealer, meanwhile one of the PCs is being whisked away to a secret meeting and nobody has peeked inside the mystery box.

I'm not seeing a problem with this.

I just hope this is how the GM is getting his plot started and not just being mean to the party.

1) Out ship has an antiquated battle droid who can act as a bit of cheap muscle. It's not much, but it can supplement other measures, such as acting as backup for a lone guard. There's a ship/vehicle attachment in Special Mods called Security Features that makes it harder to break into and hotwire your vehicle.

With only 3 players, you might look to hiring on some additional muscle when you feel like you might need it.

2) Core rulebook has the Surveillance Tagger, a generic name for the usual tracking bug that can be "the most expensive models,-snip-, can relay through obstructions over dozens of kilometers, while the cheaper -snip- tend to have much shorter broadcast ranges and can be blocked by large buildings or thick masses of rock or metal."

No Disintegrations has the Holonet Homing Beacon which uses the Holonet to transmit to/from anywhere with holonet access, potentially allowing you to track across entire regions of space. More expensive obviously.

3) Depends on the GM. It can enhance things by allowing for reoccurring and hated villains who are very satisfying to get one over on and finally defeat. It can also help manage money as part of a general avoidance of never needing to replace lost/damaged/destroyed/expended equipment. The idea that equipment might be stolen, destroyed, or lost can actually be fun "The electronic lock breaker fell out of your backpack during the climb because you left the zipper a little open?!? How are we going to break into the facility now?"

Or, it can just be the GM being a jerk.

Really it all depends on how it's handled.

**** YOU page 151 of EotE core rules!!!

Yep... that old chestnut. TBH it's THE WORST GM guidance I've ever seen in my life.. as there's no guidance for noob GMs (unless there is as I'm AFB at the mo)

On 7/8/2017 at 0:01 PM, Oblivyax said:

1) What are efficient ways to protect Speeders/Ships/Homes from being invaved/stolen?

Enhanced security features are an attachment option in Spec Mods that will work on vehicles. Bases, businesses, and homesteads also have a similar option IIRC.

Fly Casual also has a number of hidey boxes and safes for stashing personal gear.

Droids are another good option. While a dedicated sentry Droid is the best, even a simple astromech with a comlink and orders to report in whenever anyone that isn't on a designated list tries to access the ship would be better than nothing.

None of these are foolproof, but all are options.

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2) Anyone knows where in the books are tracer/beacon devices to track something? Like in star wars movies. Are they efficient?

Core books. EotE core for sure has it, pretty sure the others do too.

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3) Do Gms often make player fear for the safety of your gear/properties? We only played D&D and pathfinder, and the only thiefs where in our team if there was any. So I'm new to having to worry about losing stuff while the players are still under 3k credits/equipement average. (Except a ship 1 player have an obligation about) (in 4rth session, About 70 Xp so far)

....they can.

This is just my opinion, so milage may vary.

While a GM shouldn't just steal player gear Willy Nilly, a GM shouldn't be afraid of doing so either.

Unlike in D&D based games Star Wars gear isn't attached to the player in the same way. Removing a Paladin of all thier fancy magic armor and sword is pretty crippling unless the setting can allow it's recovery, but usually such items are buried in dungeons behind dozens of nasty monsters.

By comparison, while the high end heavy blaster pistols are nice, they aren't game changing compared to the standard off the shelf heavy blaster pistols you can get pretty easy in most galactic locations. So losing your weapon or gear is more of a simple property loss issue than a character nut kick. Your talents all still mostly work, your skills still work, and the only thing between you and getting it all (mostly) back is some credits and a negotiate roll or four. Likewise taking the right gear for the job is bigger deal here. Taking a heavy blaster rifle because it has the most damage is a metric, but if you're going spelunking, or to a fancy dinner, it's not really a good option.

So... If you went to Nar Shadda (the bad part of the galaxy) and then went to bad neighborhood (wow) then should you be the slightest bit surprised that your speeder gets boosted? Probably not. If you're climbing a sheer cliff to run a commando raid on an Imperial sensor base and roll a despair, should you be surprised that your blaster goes tumbling hundreds of feet to the ground below? Probably not. If you're just making a boring stopover on Correlia to refuel should you be surprised that your ship and everything in it gets stolen? Yes, yes you should.

On 2017-07-08 at 1:01 PM, Oblivyax said:

3) Do Gms often make player fear for the safety of your gear/properties?

This is poor GMing IMHO. It sounds like the GM is either new, just randomly throwing things in the way to make sure the players stayed on the rails, or can't deal with changes in their plan. My players (some former GMs) came from a role-playing time when it was assumed that the game was all about the player VS the GM, to the point where we still reminisce about the time a PC was "forced" to take a leak outside of camp, and a red dragon swooped down and carried him off. PC dead, create another character. Spare me from ever gaming with a group like that again.

Somewhat recently another GM in our group did something similar to us, stole our horses in trackless wilderness ... there just happened to be two horse thieves in a place no man had set foot before...yeah, right. Several months later I was GMing a similar situation, and the players started arguing about who was going to stay behind and guard the ship...the assumption being that the PC that stayed behind was effectively out of the game for a while. I had to step out of game and make it clear we weren't playing that antagonistic style anymore.

The main problem is that the player can't possibly think of all the possible ways a GM can steal from them. So there is no point listing all the precautions taken because the GM can then just use that list and take advantage of what's missing. So we've devolved down to: if the players take "reasonable precautions", their stuff is "reasonably safe".

Now, all that said, I'm not averse to taking PC stuff, but it has to be for a good story reason. Heck, I've captured them all and sent them naked into a slaver's ship. If the PCs locked the speeder and I wanted to cause a *story-based* problem, I'll steal it, sure. But if the PCs find a way to overcome the situation and turn the tables, more power to them. I'm not going to resort to "rocks fall, your informant dies" just because they're about to get valuable information. Because the point won't be "your speeder is stolen, sucks to be you", the point will be "who wanted your speeder and why?"

Speeder stolen, no checks on players' part?

Spice dealer killed for wanting to reveal info about speeder? (And not only that, but did the players even get a chance to spot the droid or stop the assassination?)

Super-smart thugs who wait for PCs to return with cargo, then wait for two PCs to give chase before swooping in and kidnapping third PC + cargo?

The speeder thief, the assassin droid, and the three "rivals" all working together to arrange a complex cat-and-mouse scenario?

Were these events as railroady as they sound? If so, my question would be, to what end?

57 minutes ago, whafrog said:

This is poor GMing IMHO. It sounds like the GM is either new, just randomly throwing things in the way to make sure the players stayed on the rails, or can't deal with changes in their plan. My players (some former GMs) came from a role-playing time when it was assumed that the game was all about the player VS the GM, to the point where we still reminisce about the time a PC was "forced" to take a leak outside of camp, and a red dragon swooped down and carried him off. PC dead, create another character. Spare me from ever gaming with a group like that again.

Somewhat recently another GM in our group did something similar to us, stole our horses in trackless wilderness ... there just happened to be two horse thieves in a place no man had set foot before...yeah, right. Several months later I was GMing a similar situation, and the players started arguing about who was going to stay behind and guard the ship...the assumption being that the PC that stayed behind was effectively out of the game for a while. I had to step out of game and make it clear we weren't playing that antagonistic style anymore.

Having said that, I like players who try to think out these things - provided they're not procrastinating I'd probably concoct a little encounter for the player left behind. An uppity port official or some such

50 minutes ago, SanguineAngel said:

Having said that, I like players who try to think out these things - provided they're not procrastinating I'd probably concoct a little encounter for the player left behind. An uppity port official or some such

Absolutely. In my example above, if they had decided someone stayed behind, I'd have made sure they were busy, either, say, "now would be a good time to fix that escape pod release", or some kind of useful scanning and monitoring involvement for the main party, or even just forage locally for food...how could that go wrong? However, none of them wanted to stay, but they were all afraid I'd make the ship disappear, this expectation having been fostered by their own behaviours back when David Bowie was still singing in high notes.

Former Shadowrun player, so all of this sounds familiar.

On Nar Shaddaa, I'd suggest always keeping the speeder running and circling a few blocks away while awaiting the call to pull up and pick you up. The only time I'd suggest parking it and leaving it unmanned is in a secured garage. If you don't have enough characters to spare a getaway driver, get a droid (or autopilot droid brain) and always keep the windows darkened (so would-be speeder-jackets dont know who/what is in the speeder).

The other thing I would keep in mind is whether the players bought the speeder, or whether it was provided by the GM. As a GM, if I "give" it to you, I can take it away. If you buy it, I won't take it unless you A. Do something stupid B. Find out that it is game breaking for some reason, or C. will plan to replace with equivalent.

Too many players are paranoid to begin with — dumb gotcha-games like this only make them more risk averse. Here your GM has you worrying about fitting your control stick with The Club ™ in the most basic of underworld settings when you and your pals should be riding the high from a clever heist or narrow escape.

Loss can be a very positive thing, but it needs to follow player decisions when obvious and extraordinary gambles are being made.

Tell your GM to lighten up.

1) There is a Security Measures attachment for vehicles, that makes them harder to break into. It's in Special Modifications. Oh, it takes 0 hard points, too, so you can add it to any vehicle.

2) There are a few; there's the personal transponder, from Keeping the Peace; that's a planetary solution. For longer range tracking, there's the HoloNet homing beacon in No Disintegrations. Note that it relies on the HoloNet to send its signal, so it won't help if you're in the middle of Wild Space or the like. It seems like there's another one, but I might be thinking of a different game system.

3) As GM, I'd flip a Destiny Point to do stuff like that, unless there's some story reason (someone set you up, there's a relevant Obligation, etc.). Are you sure it's not all some kind of scheme? Nar Shaddaa does seem to be the most cyberpunk planet in Star Wars, so some sort of elaborate double cross or ridiculously complicated boondoggle isn't entirely out of character for the place. I mean, it certainly sounds like something bigger is going on, with shipments, and assassins, and high end thugs. Stolen speeder, then a sniper covers the thief's trail, and team of higher end goons came for the shipment - that sounds like someone really wanted to steal it. The thief hoped it was in the speeder, the assassin droid was there as her cover, but saw the box & called it in, so the backup team came to grab it.

I love it when players put tracers on their stuff, it gives me another reason to steal it.

While the players are congratulating themselves for buying a tracer I could be reeling them in for an encounter. It's like fishing for trouble.

One of my players often mutters that I can't take his skills or talents away from him....everything else is fair game....but only if it makes a good story.

30 minutes ago, lupex said:

One of my players often mutters that I can't take his skills or talents away from him....everything else is fair game....but only if it makes a good story.

Sure you can...the right crit could reduce an attribute, and there's always amnesia...

To add in my own two cents: There needs to be a good reason for doing stuff like this to your players. If you feel like the GM's just doing it to screw over the party, you're probably right. If the GM had some plan behind the loss that didn't follow through, it's easier to explain and retcon. Good GMs are willing to admit when they goofed and rewrite around or retcon the problem.

Good examples of theft that come to my mind:

1) The players leave their speeder unattended in Nar Shadaa. When they get back, they see a punk kid trying to hot wire it. Kid makes a run for it when he sees the PCs approaching. This example serves as a flavorful warning for players to be cautious about security, or to be willing to split the party.

2) The punk drives off with their speeder. Players track him down, and he promises plot-relevant information about the underworld if they let him go. The theft is thus used as a tool for driving the plot, and the thief might become a contact.

3) They track down the speeder, and discover it was bait for an ambush by a recurring enemy, and thus serves as part of their ongoing conflict.

"Keeping the players hungry" should be advice for preventing a Monty Haul campaign where players get whatever they want, not an excuse for making their lives miserable. PCs should always have something that prevents them from just walking away from the plot and into a routine life. On the opposite end, if players came to the game wanting an adventure like those in the movies or cartoons, they shouldn't feel like they're struggling just to survive or feel relevant.

Of course, adversarial GMing is a bad thing, and the root of a lot of problems. Players need challenges to overcome, but they're helpless against GM fiat, and trying to fight an adversarial GM isn't fun.

Hello and thanks for all the replies.

First, lets say things went downhill, but is was completely crazy and fun.

The player who stayed, the female mechanic, kicked the **** out of 1 of the 3 before being rendered unconcious, and brought back to a "brothel" where she could "serve". She recovered in a bacta tank, while me and the other player we moved on to save the day.

While searching the assasination droid my partner got a Triump on his dice, so he got a Thermal detonator as a reward.

We 'streetwise'd the possible kidnapper, we found out where she was, proceeded to investigate inside, I "Deception"ed the Twilek Matriarch of the brothel (Against a 4 Red and a Purple dice) so she lended me a 'slave' to try out. I got some information from her that made me believe where she was hold up.

After my lap dance, I joined the other player, we had 2 bouncer sent against us to throw us out, we got them before they were able to start their action.

We forced our way the the Matriarch Room, and with the 'deception' that I was ready to blow myself up with everyone in the room with the thermal detonator if my friend wasn't brought back to me, I got 1 Triump and succeded with some advantage against another impossible roll from the matriarch. So the matriarch gave us back our friend, called a contact from another local gang to give us back the crate and the Speeder as a favor.

So in th end we had an epic adventure because we were careless, but we sorted it out. I don't know what would have happenned if I didn't got some triumph on my rolls, but were were lucky in the end.
I'm sure my GM was trying to make us think about our actions, and we got smarter afterwards.

Thanks for the opinions, and the informations about the tracers. We will definitively look into the security measure at least.

That's actually my favorite type of game.

It's the type where the players are constantly saying, how are we going to get out of this mess/survive this situation etc.

Now I don't mean the type of game where it isn't clear what needs to be done, or how it might be done. I mean the type of game where you're scrambling to cover multiple serious problems and everything seems to be going wrong. It's the most satisfying when you manage to get things settled up. It's a fun, crazy mess.