Hmmm, while I'm indifferent to a redesign, I have to admit that I'm a bit annoyed about any content being cut or delayed over this. If that's the case.
Bothans possibly marked as non-canon.
I don't personally care much about the look of a Bothan. They've never particularly interested or offended me. That said, I don't like the precedent of just changing a species that even if not fully canon is at least well established as having a particular look.
I'll be curious to see if that's what is actually going on.
They are gonna do what discovery is doing to the Klingons
4 hours ago, TheShard said:They are gonna do what discovery is doing to the Klingons
Bring them back to the screen after a long absence?
I wonder if they'll also eliminate the Nikto subspecies beyond red & green. IIRC, those are the only ones that are actually canon.
I don't think it's a matter of "Canon vs. Legends," as they have plenty of stuff that's not canon (they just did the Arkanians, for example). I think it's a matter or portrayal--if and when a movie or Rebels (actually, Rebels seems like the most likely place) introduces the Bothans on screen and it contradicts significantly with what the Bothans are like in the books, they don't want that kind of confusion. Nikto subspecies are not canon, but they don't contradict with the appearance of the two in canon.
There is an assumption also that Bothans stole the Death Star II plans, but they only quoted that "Many Bothan Spies died to bring us this information" , I would say that it would be unlikely a non-human would be able to get close enough to actually steal them spy or not.
Yeah that's been my only concern with that situation... So I always preferred my bothans to be near human... Just not quite.
11 hours ago, syrath said:There is an assumption also that Bothans stole the Death Star II plans, but they only quoted that "Many Bothan Spies died to bring us this information" , I would say that it would be unlikely a non-human would be able to get close enough to actually steal them spy or not.
Unless A. They're shape shifters
B. Their espionage methods to beyond infiltration (SIGINT, IMINT, MASINT, ETC....... INT).
C. They have Imperials on the payroll
D. The Imperials let them get the info...... Oh wait.
at any rate, did she actually say they stole schematics? They didn't exact look for an exhaust port. What I got was that the Bothans:
1. Pin-pointed the DS2's location. That could be from long range surveillance (oh look, that moon has a moon), slicing a navicomputer, an insider leaking information, intercepted communique's, etc.
2. Ascertained that the DS2 was not fully armed and operational......... Which ended up being false. Did they get the info prior to Vader's "motivation?" Unlikely given the next piece of info. This seems like an insider leak.... Especially since it was false.
3. The juicy detail that the Emperor was on site. Leak of the Emperor's itinerary? A disgruntled imperial spilling his guts? Surveillance IDing the shuttle?
4. Leia mentions that the shuttle codes came at a price. The Bothans killed seems likely. Interception of transmissions? Given by an Imperial defector? Sliced from a computer?
Edited by MitchPelon6 hours ago, MitchPelon said:Unless A. They're shape shifters
B. Their espionage methods to beyond infiltration (SIGINT, IMINT, MASINT, ETC....... INT).
C. They have Imperials on the payroll
D. The Imperials let them get the info...... Oh wait.
at any rate, did she actually say they stole schematics? They didn't exact look for an exhaust port. What I got was that the Bothans:
1. Pin-pointed the DS2's location. That could be from long range surveillance (oh look, that moon has a moon), slicing a navicomputer, an insider leaking information, intercepted communique's, etc.
2. Ascertained that the DS2 was not fully armed and operational......... Which ended up being false. Did they get the info prior to Vader's "motivation?" Unlikely given the next piece of info. This seems like an insider leak.... Especially since it was false.
3. The juicy detail that the Emperor was on site. Leak of the Emperor's itinerary? A disgruntled imperial spilling his guts? Surveillance IDing the shuttle?
4. Leia mentions that the shuttle codes came at a price. The Bothans killed seems likely. Interception of transmissions? Given by an Imperial defector? Sliced from a computer?
My point in it was that all that was said about the Bothans was that many died to bring the rebellion the info, for all we know is that a large ship carrying a great deal of Bothans was destroyed while delivering the plans, in fact it is so vague it could mean anything. in fact Bothans could be a name or a tribe or...... and not even a race. All we know is that they growl, and to be honest, that verb has been used in context for humans, and a lot of them died getting the plans to the rebellion in some way, that is all we canonically know, gicen their removal Im fairly sure that this is going to show up somewhere.
Edited by syrathTo get back to recent stuff: The German version of the rebel commander archetype Arkhan has been given a species of "unknown" and references to bothans and Bothawui in his background have been replaced with a more generic "his people".
I'd assume the Bothans will stay aliens, but I'd have no problem if the whole spy shtick would get at least somewhat turned down, just like twi'lek dancing (plus, nothing makes a species as bad at spying like being known as good spies). And though I like the design, I can understand the main team would want their own shot at it rather than taking over 20 years of non-coherent designs and redesigns.
Edited by CiferOn 7/10/2017 at 9:11 AM, copperbell said:The problem I have with Rogue One is that it wasn't necessary for all of them to die
Well, aside from the war movies that R1 was emulating. In movies like the Guns of Navarone, Where Eagles Dare, The Inglorious Bastards, the Dirty Dozen, unless your name is Gregory Peck or Lee Marvin, then you were dead as surely as you were wearing a Federation Redshirt.
The thing is, I think in all this modern reworking of movie culture going on, there is no reason you can't do both.
Bothans have been portrayed All the way from dwarfy-gbome-y looking things, to monkeyish/wolfish/catish things or somewhere in between.
That's a lot to play with, that's even assuming you don't just take important aspects from it and do it your own way.
I like them more like how Ryn are often portrayed. But id both make them easier to mistake for humans and more alien.
However if I'd keep hints of what people would want to see. Well groomed, but slightly hairier, where spies could have just shaved or cot their hair. Slightly more pronounced jaw/cheek bones.
On 7/16/2017 at 11:47 AM, Cifer said:(plus, nothing makes a species as bad at spying like being known as good spies).
We know that Russians are always spying, but that doesn't necessarily work against them. There's a lot more to spying than being undercover operatives. I've always imagined that Bothans provide the brains and credits behind the Spynet, including handlers and support, along with expertise in ELINT and SIGINT while most of their front-line HUMINT operatives are members of other species (for similar reasons, I imagine that the ISB uses many non-humans for their HUMINT operations).
What if Bothans are not a species but the code name given a Rebel operation? It would make for a good Rogue Two movie plot, since Disney and Hollywood in general love any chance for a sequel.
please don't Disney, just don't
2 hours ago, HappyDaze said:We know that Russians are always spying, but that doesn't necessarily work against them. There's a lot more to spying than being undercover operatives. I've always imagined that Bothans provide the brains and credits behind the Spynet, including handlers and support, along with expertise in ELINT and SIGINT while most of their front-line HUMINT operatives are members of other species (for similar reasons, I imagine that the ISB uses many non-humans for their HUMINT operations).
It helps to consider the Bothans "Space Israelis".
On 18.7.2017 at 2:28 AM, HappyDaze said:We know that Russians are always spying, but that doesn't necessarily work against them. There's a lot more to spying than being undercover operatives. I've always imagined that Bothans provide the brains and credits behind the Spynet, including handlers and support, along with expertise in ELINT and SIGINT while most of their front-line HUMINT operatives are members of other species (for similar reasons, I imagine that the ISB uses many non-humans for their HUMINT operations).
Technically correct, though of course the sexy part of espionage that's interesting for RP is not necessarily the handlers, codebreakers and support activities.
6 hours ago, Cifer said:Technically correct, though of course the sexy part of espionage that's interesting for RP is not necessarily the handlers, codebreakers and support activities.
The sexy part of spying is all just a distraction to keep attention away from the "uninteresting" spies dong the real work.
Is it possible that this whole canon situation with the bothans is part of a larger situation that is causing the delay with ghosts of dathomire, savage spirits and fully operational? There has been no updating of their status in 4 months or more. Isn't that rather unusual ? I mean 2 have been stuck on the boat for 4 months and 10 days and one is stuck in development for 4 months as of today?!
Edited by jayc007Clarification
My apologies for whining btw
10 hours ago, HappyDaze said:The sexy part of spying is all just a distraction to keep attention away from the "uninteresting" spies dong the real work.
Obviously, and the sexy part of wars are minuscule compared to all the mindnumbing boredom punctuated by seeing your buddy hold her guts in and telling her it's all going to be alright. But those are usually not the parts games focus on.
On 7/20/2017 at 2:21 AM, Cifer said:...all the mindnumbing boredom punctuated by seeing your buddy hold her guts in and telling her it's all going to be alright.
Sounds like some of my past roleplaying experiences...
On 7/20/2017 at 5:21 AM, Cifer said:...all the mindnumbing boredom punctuated by seeing your buddy hold her guts in and telling her it's all going to be alright.
Ah, so your friends stop at Chipotle before coming to the game too?
This image from Vanity Fair is interesting. It looks like it shows what we knew as a Bothan, but perhaps they will be designated as a new species?
