The Ammo Belt and Fast Hands changes both make total sense. I feel like Maz is the real issue in the Poe/Maz combo. Just limit her to one die instead of two and you solve much of the issue without fundamentally changing the card.

6 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

The Ammo Belt and Fast Hands changes both make total sense. I feel like Maz is the real issue in the Poe/Maz combo. Just limit her to one die instead of two and you solve much of the issue without fundamentally changing the card.

I think a better fix for Maz would be to limit her ability to her own dice/upgrades. Keeps the 2, but limits the "Resolve anything as whatever you want" silliness.

If this is true this is not what i expected. Maz or Poe have to receive a direct errata or it stays busted as it is

Ok with the changes, although I didn't think the Ammo Belt/2nd Chance loop was too much of an issue in the end, it gave an air of viability to Hero Mill (although still not much).

Nothing in this suggests that Poe/Maz will go away any time soon.

6 minutes ago, Nitratas said:

If this is true this is not what i expected. Maz or Poe have to receive a direct errata or it stays busted as it is

It does hurt Poe a LITTLE bit. The real horror show was when he could hit one of his specials naturally, resolve it immediately, and then Maz pretty much guarantees the second. This will open that first die up to be mitigated, which is a pretty serious reduction in the guaranteed damage potential.

Of course, it also shuts down some of the counters people were starting to develop, but IMHO Fast Hands was a much broader problem card than Poe/Maz itself.

Just now, Buhallin said:

It does hurt Poe a LITTLE bit. The real horror show was when he could hit one of his specials naturally, resolve it immediately, and then Maz pretty much guarantees the second. This will open that first die up to be mitigated, which is a pretty serious reduction in the guaranteed damage potential.

Of course, it also shuts down some of the counters people were starting to develop, but IMHO Fast Hands was a much broader problem card than Poe/Maz itself.

Agreed about Fast Hands being the bigger issue, but this change really does almost nothing to hurt Poe/Maz. Curiously it makes Cargo Hold an interesting choice for the deck, since it now clarifies that moved upgrades remove dice from the pool. So both beneficial to get Fast Hands on Poe and as removal.

They just posted an article about this too:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/7/7/sleight-of-hand/

Ammo Belt makes me just a little sad, because it makes hero mill even weaker.

Fast Hands doesn't hurt PoeMaz that badly, but it really hits VaderRaider hard.

I also feel a little disconcerted that they say they "don't expect errata to be a common occurrence moving forward", but they already have twice as many erratas as releases, and they're releasing a new rules reference every couple of months...

What does the fact that these were errata'd say about the playtesting for this game? Although I agree with the errata decision, it only increases my frustration with the designers of the game and general lack of forethought and balance. These changes also do practically nothing to the already tight meta, and in fact may have hurt it. They even admitted the Second Chance/Ammo Belt combo wasn't really effecting competitive play. I want to see characters rebalanced so we can see a more diverse field of teams in tournaments. But with the recent reveal of K2SO, they obviously don't know how to properly balance point value on characters.

Any chance that FFG will release updated cards, with the new errata wording?

Having watched the recent video on Team Covenant, I hope that with the addition of that Jeremy guy, (sorry don't know his surname), the game will be more thoroughly tested and less likely to have as many broken combos.

3 minutes ago, somesamurai said:

Any chance that FFG will release updated cards, with the new errata wording?

As someone who's been playing X-Wing for the last five years, I can tell you the odds are very low with FFG. In X-Wing, the only time you get the correct printing is if the card is re-released in a completely different set.

9 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

As someone who's been playing X-Wing for the last five years, I can tell you the odds are very low with FFG. In X-Wing, the only time you get the correct printing is if the card is re-released in a completely different set.

First off, they did already fix guardian wording (to an extent), and second, reprints of the Tie Phantom do have corrected decloak mechanic wording.

I've been hearing rumors that Asmodee is pushing for more profits, and FFG is seriously considering getting rid of playtesting altogether, except in the most minimalist role possible. They're considering pushing out the set and letting us balance it for them, and instead they would be "super responsive" and print cards with errata and make them readily available to players in tourney kits.

Just now, chiller087 said:

I've been hearing rumors that Asmodee is pushing for more profits, and FFG is seriously considering getting rid of playtesting altogether, except in the most minimalist role possible. They're considering pushing out the set and letting us balance it for them, and instead they would be "super responsive" and print cards with errata and make them readily available to players in tourney kits.

That sounds more expensive than just paying the playtesters.

I just posted all the changes. One With The Force got nerfed too!

47 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I also feel a little disconcerted that they say they "don't expect errata to be a common occurrence moving forward", but they already have twice as many erratas as releases, and they're releasing a new rules reference every couple of months...

That's just wishful thinking on their part. After Netrunner, they will be more proactive and do fixes as needed. They just won't rush to judgement every time someone complains.

Nothing shocking. Fast Hands was ripe for errata as was Ammo Belt. I'm still expecting that IF Poe/Maz continues to be a problem eventually Poe will be errata'ed to make his ability only work on Vehicles.

1 hour ago, KingOfOdonata said:

What does the fact that these were errata'd say about the playtesting for this game? Although I agree with the errata decision, it only increases my frustration with the designers of the game and general lack of forethought and balance. These changes also do practically nothing to the already tight meta, and in fact may have hurt it. They even admitted the Second Chance/Ammo Belt combo wasn't really effecting competitive play. I want to see characters rebalanced so we can see a more diverse field of teams in tournaments. But with the recent reveal of K2SO, they obviously don't know how to properly balance point value on characters.

I think you're overstating things. So far every time someone thinks a combo is "broken" over time the meta adjusts and that combo loses some of its luster. For example, in my local meta we are seeing success in beating Poe-Maz with decks that feature more dice control in them.

3 hours ago, Kieransi said:

Fast Hands doesn't hurt Poe/Maz that badly, but it really hits Vader/Raider hard.

The interesting effect of this change is who to target first? Maz or Poe, if Poe only has Hit and Run as his action cheat and still has to roll the specials then getting rid of Maz seems like the basic strategy here.

In some regards I think the change is just a small iteration as to test, when trouble shooting you make one change at a time.

It will be interesting to see how the meta adapts over the next few weeks, I think though we'll see more variety at SC than less.

I think that FFG hated Fast Hands more because it was an auto-include for any deck that had a yellow character, and the errata had little to do with Poe/Maz. It was just too strong to ever pass up on. I don't think this errata will really change that, but it does make non-yellow characters have to worry about dice control. Maybe it means the big powerful yellow characters like Jyn and IG-88 will see a resurgence?

Fast Hands was problematic in its original form because you could assign it to other characters not Yellow who could just abuse it terribly. One weird example I saw was Palpy and as Tusken Raider. Once Palpy had as Fast Hands he just inflicted his pain instantly. Also any Blue character who benefitted from Force Speed loved the hands.

The changes are overall good for the long term health of the game, but don't really fix issues people have with the current meta.

I am pretty happy that the Fast Hands change makes every Yellow character a little bit better in comparison now, particularly the aggressive ones. IG becomes slightly more competitive when he's the only guy who can FH 3 damage into people.

Though a little bummed that I was finally going to get around to play 'Jyn never dies' this week....

2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

Maybe it means the big powerful yellow characters like Jyn and IG-88 will see a resurgence?

Did they ever see a surgence?

56 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

Did they ever see a surgence?

Ha, good point.