Just thought about this. Will the Phoenix Clan only have 3 families (since the Agasha are back with the Dragon) or four? If the latter, what kind of theme, duty, name, etc will this new family have for the Phoenix Clan?

Speculate away!

The Chuda, tasked with investigating Maho and the Shadowlands.

Snake? Snaaaaaake!

Moshi, priestesses and temple guardians.

The Asako maintaining a super-secretive order of monks while also being the public face of the clan has always seemed kind of self-contradictory. I would add a family that steals one of those two roles. One way to do it would be to promote the Nasu into a fully fledged courtier family.

The Phoenix are just: the Shiba, Asako , and Isawa. They didn't need 4 families before so don't see why they would now. The Shiba and Isawa were so large you really didn't need a 4th.

There was actually a "fourth" Phoenix Family before the Agasha, and they were the Sesai ninja.

Considering the Isawa family alone can branch off into 5 different aspects with the elements, they can feel like 5 families in an overcoat standing of Shiba's shoulders.

They don't need 4 families, they were barely using all 4 before anyway.

2 hours ago, Mirith said:

The Chuda, tasked with investigating Maho and the Shadowlands.

Investigating, yes that's what they are doing.

Glad to have the Agasha alchemists back where they belong. They were always my favorite Shugenja and them moving to Phoenix felt like them losing what made them awesome.

The Agasha as a family never did a blessed thing after joining the Phoenix- a clan that was "hard to write for because magic" really didn't need another shugenja family- with the Dragon, the Agasha mattered. With the Phoenix they got completely lost in the shuffle.

The Isawa have enough pomposity and ego for a clan unto themselves let alone one family.

Just give some bushi to the Asako and the Phoenix can do with only 1 family. After all, in the years before the reboot, it felt like they were everywhere and had everything. They had monks (henshin and not), shugenja (with some elemental masters), courtiers, magistrates, inquisitors. Huh, it seems they didn't have ninja, it's surprising. I would have thought AEG would give them some too.

Real talk, if the Phoenix WERE to scrape up another family, either by creating a new one, elevating an old vassal family, or absorbing a minor clan? Courtiers would do nicely. Yes, yes, the Asako carried that ball... but since actual depictions of them doing so are incredibly thin on the ground, there's not much to overcome, even for an old grognard.

2 hours ago, Isawa Omi said:

Investigating, yes that's what they are doing.

That is/was their tasked role in AEG L5R. They took it to heart. Then.. ran into some... issues...

7 hours ago, Mirith said:

That is/was their tasked role in AEG L5R. They took it to heart. Then.. ran into some... issues...

If by issues you mean the shortsightedness of others, then I agree.

I for one like all the Phoenix discussion we are having on the forums recently. Dare I hope the next previewed clan is...

But more on topic, does any clan really NEED more than three families?

But if you were to do it I suppose making Asako mainly monks and then getting a new courtier family would be enough.

Or perhaps move all the courtiers over to the Shiba, making the Shiba the family that interacts with outsiders while the Isawa and Asako focus on their spiritual duties/research, etc. Conceptually this would mesh with the already present Shiba bushi focus; military is just another aspect of "dealing" with outsiders.

And heaven knows, the Isawa need to be protected in the courts just as much- if not more- than elsewhere.

It makes thematic sense for Isawa shugenja to be out of place dealing with human interactions.

Shiba being both bushi and courtier would also mirror their Bayushi cousins, which I find appropriate.

Does that mean the Tamori are getting axed? I don't think any Tamori personalities have been spoiled so far, and the Dragon with Mirumoto, Togashi, Agasha and Kitsuki would be at 4 families already...

The Tamori was an offshoot from the Agasha, founded by those who didn't accept the move to the Phoenix clan (at first, both parts kept the Agasha name). The Tamori family name appeared years later than the current time period (during the War of Spirits) and the reason was pretty dumb (Hantei XVI forced the named of a Dragon traitor to be given to the Dragon clan as a family name as part of the peace treaty conditions as some petty revenge) so for now, yeah, they are axed. Maybe FFG will recreate them later for one reason or another but I doubt it, as I don't think the Agasha will go to the Phoenix clan this time.

7 hours ago, KerenRhys said:

I don't think the Agasha will go to the Phoenix clan this time.

If they do, I hope it's not yet another waste of story potential...

Had the defection led to meaningful internal change for the Phoenix or Dragon, had it led to a serious story about what the Agasha forsaking their loyalties meant to the wider Empire, had it led to permanent meaningful bad blood between the Dragon and the Phoenix (as it was, the Tamori hated the Phoenix and everybody else just shrugged and went about their day) had it, in short, done anything whatsoever that something like that should have done, I'd have loved it.

I remember reading how the Agasha were treated as second class samurai by the Phoenix, but moreso by other clans. It surprised me with how it both made sense within the setting and yet wasn't something I had picked up anywhere but that paragraph.