5 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

To Quote:

" I have to go back and read the Order of Operations for attacks and defense. but the word I'm getting hung up on is "Spend". Since it's not exhaust, or flip over, or exhaust or discard exhausted tokens, I gotta think that if it's being "spent" it will g enerate an effect. This is not a hard ruling right now, just a personal interpretation. I will get something a little more concrete for you guys end of the month with regards to questions on rulings."

Totally leaving rules terminology, but when you think of Sloane as "spending" a defense token, thematically I would think she is disabling the defensive system, not activating it.

2 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Looks like the pragmatic answer is simply don't bring Sloane to Nationals. This is a truly bad ruling.

On the bright side it means we don't have to face Sloane!

8 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

On the bright side it means we don't have to face Sloane!

Or you got to face Sloane but with that effect that does absolutely nothing to harm you

2 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Or you got to face Sloane but with that effect that does absolutely nothing to harm you

All the better!

Honestly, I would be happy if the TO kept his bad ruling because it takes the stress off of dealing with Sloane. But I would hate knowing I am playing against people who are bringing their secondary list because the TO nerfed Sloane, or someone shows up not knowing and gets caught off guard. It's a moral dilemma where I want to do well, but I want to do well on an even playing field.

22 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Since it's not exhaust, or flip over, or exhaust or discard exhausted tokens, I gotta think that if it's being "spent" it will g enerate an effect.

Holy wow.

Look, I'm usually the first person to say that one should always consider the other person's side, but the ability to think this demonstrate a shocking lack of understanding. Why is he involved in Nationals at all?

Whoops.

33 minutes ago, JgzMan said:

Holy wow.

Look, I'm usually the first person to say that one should always consider the other person's side, but the ability to think this demonstrate a shocking lack of understanding. Why is he involved in Nationals at all?

It's not a hard ruling. Take it easy on the guy lol.

Looks like the guy is after a consensus, he has put a poll up. Go vote!

I do understand if there are some confusion if you think there are some hidden intent with Sloanes ability but the rules are quite clear to me.

1. Defense tokens per the " Defense Tokens " section clearly state that the effect of a defense token only happen when it is spent by the defender . Say so in the first paragraph.

2. Only the first four bullet points are token effects , they are even highlighted to differentiate them from the bottom five.

3. Each bullet point clearly state if they refer to the defender in regards to the point it is making.

Anything else are mainly you the reader trying to interpret something which is not specifically written. It might be that the intent is something else but how can we tell that and where else in the rules is this also true for if that is the case here?

In my opinion the more powerful nature of Sloanes ability per the rules seem appropriate... she is difficult to use as it is. Diminish her power and she becomes completely useless. I have used here several times and she is not as powerful as people make her credit for. I have won all my games with her but never felt her ability was key in any of those victories, not more than any other commander of similar ability such as Motti.

Force Ghost'ing this back to life. Ever got a resolution?

Also, seems clear that using the term "spend" over that of "exhaust" is not about the intent of whether it also triggers the normal effect, but that exhausting is more restricted than spending.

This was already settled by FFG. Sloane is RAW. A token targeted by Sloane cannot be spend during this attack by the defender. The attacker could never generate the effect, because again the rule book states otherwise.

and what happens when a squad or ships has double brace? By spending one of the brace tokens, can I use the other unspent one??

10 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

and what happens when a squad or ships has double brace? By spending one of the brace tokens, can I use the other unspent one??

Yes.

Because only the defender is restricted from spending two of the same tokens... And one of them was spent by the attacker , not the defender.

On 7/14/2017 at 1:34 PM, Warlord Zepnick said:

Granted , this rule is written in the passive , Sloane does not preclude a defending squadron from spending its own defense token after it has been spent by a Sloane squadron.

The preliminary statement of the section on "Defense Tokens" states that "Defense tokens can be spent by the defender during the "Spend Defense Tokens" step of an attack. A defender is either a squadron or a ship.

Thus, all of the "effects described below" apply to squadrons themselves spending defense tokens , not other squadrons.

I'd also be hard pressed to believe that Sloane was written when these rules on defense tokens were. Therefore the intent isn't there either.

I agree with Drasnighta's position for the following reasons:

First, when a new card/rule is introduced, I expect the designers carefully examine how it interacts with the ruleset. They have the opportunity to change the rules or clarify on the card how it interacts with the ruleset. It doesn't matter when the rules were written, the designers can/will modify them when a new card is released to address any new intent.

Second, the "Defense Tokens" section does not just apply to defenders (ships and squadrons) but to the defense tokens themselves. Both Admiral Sloane's and Darth Vader's effect spends defense tokens when attacking. So, this section applies to any use of the defense tokens regardless of whether it is a defender or attacker interacting with the defense tokens. The statement "Defense tokens can be spent by the defender during the 'Spend Defense Tokens' step of an attack to produce the effects described below :" is the full quote and address only the 4 effects of Evade, Brace, Redirect, and Scatter. The remaining Defense Token bullets address the defender and the defense tokens. The fifth bullet is specific to the "defense token" and defines the two different states of "spent": exhausted and discarded which can occur at other times other than defending. There are two "defender" specific bullets addressing zero speed and spending each type of token once per attack. The next bullet applies specifically to the "defense token": "A defense token cannot be spent more than once during an attack" and doesn't differentiate why it was spent during an attack. If a defense token was spent during the attack by either the defender or attacker it can't be spent a second time. There are many other card effects that interact with defense tokens and this section covers all these interactions. Now if a Darth Vader commanded ship spent a defense token to reroll attack dice to it's exhausted state, that spent defense token could be used if counter attacked as the counter attack is a separate attack and it had not been spent once during the counter attack.

Holy necro, Batman!

Not to mention we now have an FAQ ruling on this matter, rendering the discussion pointless:

Admiral Sloane

A token spent by this card’s effect cannot be spent by the defender during that attack. The defender can spend another token of the same type during that attack.

2 minutes ago, DiabloAzul said:

Not to mention we now have an FAQ ruling on this matter, rendering the discussion pointless:

Admiral Sloane

A token spent by this card’s effect cannot be spent by the defender during that attack. The defender can spend another token of the same type during that attack.

Thanks. I haven't played in a year, so I obviously need to catch up on the FAQs.

2 minutes ago, B2000 said:

Thanks. I haven't played in a year, so I obviously need to catch up on the FAQs.

The latest one is here .